shanks522 Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Having the crossovers working would seriously compromise the logic of the fiddle yard and would drive all the trains into the inner loops and fiddle sidings with no means of getting back without a redesign of the whole fiddleyard. I think a couple of crossovers in the fiddle yard would make it workable, not every train has to use them just a couple to make operating more interesting. Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 I've printed the entire layout out at full size now, and although the boards are just the right size (easily manageable at 4'6" by 2'4"), I'm still not quite happy with the balance of scenic space to fiddle yard. This is probably my biggest annoyance with Cross Street, so I want to make sure I get this balance right on Hunters Lane. I think I have to go back to the question of how am I going to run this layout? If I am honest, I doubt I would want to exhibit the layout often if at all, not being sure I actually enjoy exhibiting as opposed to modelling. But at the same time, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by having a tiny fiddle yard if I do decide to, and also I want to be able to set the layout up in the dining room with enough variety of stock to keep me occupied for a few hours, and to justify the effort of setting it up. Again, this was where Ring Road could have been better - it as so heavy and took for ever to set up, then filled the entire room so stayed up for quite some time, but I quickly got bored with just 8 trains to play with at a time. What I am thinking of doing is building a combination fiddle yard that sits between full-on exhibition needs, and slimmed-down home needs. As shown in the photo, the fiddle yard is 10 inches wide, and I may strip out one further line so there is an extra inch on the scenic side. It may not sound much, but that's another 84 square inches of scenery! This would give me storage for up to 22 trains on the layout (including use of the scenic sidings), three of which are on the bidirectional loops for the fast lines, so there's actually 25 operations available to me. A typical set up might be: 390 87 Virgin set Voyager 86 pair on intermodals 66 EWS coal hoppers 66 Freightliner coal hoppers 350 60 monster box wagons 67 bolster wagons 350 150 170 Plus up to 5 OTP units and 5 sets of autoballasters, maintenance and PWay wagons on the scenic side. I think that would give me more than enough variety at an exhibition, but that extra inch also helps balance the scenic to hidden ratio of the layout. A lot of thought given to an inch I realise, but in N gauge, that's an extra 12 feet! David 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 That chair fouling the fiddleyard will have to go! If you are not overly enthused by spending a weekend exhibiting why not outsource that to some plucky enthusiasts, I am sure there would be plenty of takers. You could attend in a front of house mode, maybe even get out and about at other layouts for a few hours at the exhibition to drum up trade so to speak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi David, Forgive me for sticking another rough drawing on but could you do something like this? Your original was 10 roads wide, this is eight which will save you an inch or so, This way will give you four train running and reversible running for DMU's and WCML express's etc, And if you put the the junctions at either end you have an option of adding an extra fiddle yard for exhibition use with as many loops as you want. Also the crossover in the fiddle yard on the left hand side will enable trains to cross from slow to fast on the scenic side for added interest at home or shows but get the trains back to there starting point round the back. Cheers Graham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 Hi Graham, that's a good idea that I hadn't thought of - if taking the layout to a show, simply extend the fiddle yards its bolt ons. Takes a bit off my mind actually, means I can worry less about the fiddle yard and more about the more interesting side of the layout David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted March 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2013 Hi, Love the new idea; can't wait to see it develop! Fiddle yards are tricky to get right - I know exactly how I would have made mine differently on Gresby but each layout is different I like the idea of having a small fiddle yard for home use, then a larger one to swap out for possible future exhibitions... having said that on Gresby I got 15 tracks into 18 inches which is 27 trains (long trains sharing with short and 3 reversing sidings) , and not many people stand while all the trains go by at an exhibition Hope that helps! Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboPetes Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Very nice idea. I will be following this with interest. Now...I'm just going to look at Ring Road and Cross Street. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 My plan for this layout has changed slightly, as some good hard thought has made me realise I can actually have a semi-permanent layout set up in my flat, without it totally dominating the room. There always has been a compromise between the layouts I'd like to build, and how often I would use them given the time it takes to set up and take down. Cross street was my first solution as it was a much smaller (but very heavy!) portable layout that was on one board and say nicely in the wardrobe in the dining room when not being run. When set up though, it took up the table space. Well, having measured up, If Cross Street moves into the other wardrobe in the bedroom (not the one full of clothes, this is full of junk mostly!), and I remove the dining room wardrobe and cabinet and replace with a row of drawer chests, the new layout can sit on top of these. This means it's not occupying any new space, is just open to the air so to speak, can be run any time for any length of time without any disruption to the rest of the flat, and...is only 5inches shorter than the two board version I was planning. So, same concept, but with a much thinned down storage yard, as I also sat and thought about how I actually operate my layouts, and have been designing storage yards as if they were at an exhibition 'just in case'. The reverse curve has gone in favour of a much more gradual arc across the layout, so the scenic breaks can then be pulled back to give more scenic space than before. This gives me a good running length and more scenic space - this shot shows the scenic area printed out to full length (but not width) with a Pendolino to check for size. It also makes the electrics so much simpler being on one board, but I do need to invest in longer blinds in my dining room - temperatures regularly hit the high 30s in summer in there, and as it is south facing, I want to be able to keep the sun off the layout (and include some expansion joins in the track!). David 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernboy Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 " ... but I do need to invest in longer blinds in my dining room ... " I'd never had blinds until I moved into my present flat a few years ago, and I have to say they give an excellent, subtle degree of control over the amount of light / temperature you admit into your room. The difference compared to curtains honestly surprised me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Fantastic layout here David, will be following with a great interest Oli. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkie Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 This looks great, look forward to the updates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 " ... but I do need to invest in longer blinds in my dining room ... "I'd never had blinds until I moved into my present flat a few years ago, and I have to say they give an excellent, subtle degree of control over the amount of light / temperature you admit into your room. The difference compared to curtains honestly surprised me. Totally agree. Trouble was, when I bought my flat about five years go, I ended up buying cheaper blinds which due to the very high ceilings, don't come all the way down the windows! Thankfully I've found some with a 2.5m drop at just the right width, so hoping this makes a big difference David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Not even started on the layout yet, but it already has its first building... I felt like a change from the 3D design work I've been doing, and also wanted something to help me judge the scale of the layout plans, so I designed and built the offices that will sit at the back of the layout. David 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrSimon Posted April 14, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 14, 2013 Hi, Love the track machine - is it one you've made on shapeways? Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class 108 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Look forward to watching this develop. Like the new drawings and amazed you have started making buildings already. Very jealous, I'm still playing with metcalf kits! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted May 7, 2013 Author Share Posted May 7, 2013 Thanks! Work on the layout plans have slowed down while I concentrate on my 3D printed OTP, but since Andy has somehow included Hunters Lane in his top ten layouts (so no pressure there then...), I've been finessing the design a bit today. There is actually a lot of space, the scenic area being quite deep, and the more I look at photos, the more faithful the plan becomes to the actual approach to Stafford. A few differences will be the much larger signalling block, based on rugby, and the housing and offices at the back of the layout. I am going to include some electricity pylons, and possibly a pedestrian footbridge that spans the entire width of the tracks. Before I can get started though, I need to sort the furniture out in the dining room so the layout has a home. I have a week off next month, and will probably get all that sorted then. David 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty11 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Well, I'm sure this will be a very nice layout when it's done! Even though I am very much a '00' modeller, I have seen 'N' come along leaps and bonds over the past couple of years and I must say that given the right time and place I would enjoy N, but I didn't think I had the patience. Very nice modelling there David, well done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 Been a while since I updated this thread - what with the sudden take off of my 3D printed OTP into a small business, and my change from a highly-paid employee to a low-budget student, its going to be some time before Hunter's Lane becomes a reality. My hope is that during 2014 I will sell enough from Modern Image Models to fund the construction, although the planned designs I have for next year will also eat up quite a few £££ in development costs. If I don't have the budget for Hunter's Lane (and I estimate about £700 is needed), one option I am considering is actually selling Cross Street. While I would be loathe to part with it, this time (unlike with Ring Road), there is little that could be recycled into the next layout. I doubt I would get anywhere near the money back that I put into it, but as I will be on a student budget for the next 3 years, I think my hunger for building a new layout will eventually outweigh my fondness for the current one! In the meantime, I've gone back and revised the plans slightly - increasing the fiddle yard so the layout *could* be exhibited after all. Why the change? Well I've never taken Cross Street out as I'm not sure I especially enjoy exhibiting, plus the layout is very heavy and with a lot of delicate detail on it that I wouldn't want to risk damaging. The growing success of my 3D printing though has now changed my view. If I go to shows as a trader, I am not actually selling anything on the day, merely promoting my range of models that are printed on demand, so given I pay to do this, it makes better economic sense to simply take a layout to shows and run the stock on it - doing the same job but for zero cost. Thus, Hunter's Lane is now being designed with exhibiting in mind, so I've expanded the fiddle yard to hold 13 trains. With the 'on scene' OTP sidings, I can run over 20 different trains, and the change has only lost me 2 inches of scenic depth. Once I've settled into my degree course in the autumn, I am also going to have a 3rd go at the Pendolino (get those curves smoother on the driving cars and print in a higher quality material), so it matches the standard of my more recent designs. This can then also be available for sale. A typical set up on Hunter's Lane at a show might then be: Pendolino Voyager (the fast lines merge round the back, so these 2 can run either way, seemingly doubling the stock!) 4x DMUs 2x 350s 5x Freights 3x Infrastructure trains 3x powered OTP Plenty for the punters to enjoy trundling past. And at 8 feet by 2 feet 6 inches on 2 boards, its still small enough to handle at home, and fit less obstructively than Ring Road did in my dining room when set up. David 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 You don't fancy an earlier period and perhaps run Virgin DVT sets with an 87 and Virgin XC HST and then transition across during the shows? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porkie Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Love the idea's behind this layout. I have to agree about your planed size, Milton grove is the same dimensions and is so much easier to move around if I have too. Although your 3D work doesnt suit my era, from what ive seen you have a true tallant and will do well selling your kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted July 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 27, 2013 The MIM models look great, sure you'd be onto a winner if you could get your Pendolino up to that standard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNCF stephen Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 My hope is that during 2014 I will sell enough from Modern Image Models to fund the construction, although the planned designs I have for next year will also eat up quite a few £££ in development costs. If I don't have the budget for Hunter's Lane (and I estimate about £700 is needed), one option I am considering is actually selling Cross Street. While I would be loathe to part with it, this time (unlike with Ring Road), there is little that could be recycled into the next layout. I doubt I would get anywhere near the money back that I put into it, but as I will be on a student budget for the next 3 years, I think my hunger for building a new layout will eventually outweigh my fondness for the current one! I think I said this before when you mentioned about selling Ring Road but your models are top class high quality bespoke designs that have been featured in the modelling media. I would not be surprised if you got a considerable sum for such a well made layout. I have to say I am impressed by your vision and delivery of each of your layouts from conception to actuality they are interesting and certainly highlight a lot of the features of a city. I am looking forward to seeing this one develop over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Impressed with this cant wait for updates you've got a lot in a relatively small space like the idea of the fast lines merging something I could think about for mine would love to see a 90 with some mark 3's racing past Excellent stuff Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted August 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2014 Hello David, Have you made any progress on this? Discussions elsewhere about a Pendolino reminded me of your model, and in turn this exciting layout plan... cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted August 15, 2014 Author Share Posted August 15, 2014 Hi Ben, it's on hold for a few years until I finish my degree at least, possibly longer as I'm probably going to do a post grad and masters as well. Financial reasons partly (being a poor student for the next few years), space reasons also (had to expand my modelmaking space at home), but mostly as now that I make models all day every day, the last thing I actually want to do when I get home is make more models! I still have grand plans for this though, and I expect the quality I will achieve will be much improved as a result of my 'other' modelmaking. It's surprising what techniques you learn making props for Marvel movies, animations, museums and architects that you suddenly think, ooh that would work well on a model railway too... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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