Tyneside electrics

[Porcy Mane]

Ah so that's where it is. I lived that way last year but could never work out where the entrance was. 

 

Thats not a Tunnel Entrance. Thats just the access under Newbridge Street. The top tunnel entrance was/is a hundred or so yards through that portal.

P

[Porcy Mane]

The large retaining wall is hidden by earth, however the smaller one can still be seen. If i've got this link right you can see where it changes in construction which is where I reckon the tunnel mouth would be:

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=54.971436,-1.593581&spn=0.000861,0.004106&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=54.971443,-1.593398&panoid=pZJ923M3gQQK2Fhp6FZJ-g&cbp=12,299.8,,0,-1.35

 

there's "40" marked on the wall just by the change, and the silver legs of a chair sticking up out of the embankment.

 

Next time I'm in town and the weather's ok I'll probably have a mooch along.

You're nearly there. There's nothing left now. Even the Tyne Tees TV studio and the legendary Tube TV Studio has gone from a few hundred yards up the bank. 

(Sorry I was starting to get misty eyed about "Frida neets oot" oggling  Paula Yates in the Egypt Cottage[Pub])

Have a look at the Pic. If you compare it now with Google or bing you will see that area has been totally filled. Your google grab is of just below Horatio Street. The quayside tracks ran to the left of your view. 

There was large transhipment sheds there. Their last use was as large indoor auto dismantlers.

 

 

Here is your concrete wall. The tunnel entrance was behind the Chimney. You can see the yards retaining wall there. The east entrance to the yard was just out of shot to the left of the elevated wooden office.

5220 by George Tullin, on Flickr

 

And another pic taken from the same spot but looking in the opposite direction.

With apologies for drifting slighly from electrics.

 

 

HTH

P

 

Edited to add corrected image and hide my original C*ck up. Yet Another. Further edited to correct broken links to flickr.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Porcy Mane

[Clive Mortimore]

Interesting to note that the Tyneside Parcel Car was fitted with buffers however the passenger stock was not.

 

XF

Hi Nigel

 

The passenger stock had buckeye couplings, the parcels had drop buckeye and buffers just like a Mk1 coach.

[Irishswissernie]

There's a close-up of Parcel Van E29468E in my 'Along the Blyth & Tyne' set

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/6446080481/in/set-72157626465529269

 

I lived in Whitley Bay next to Monkseaton station from the age of 4 - 8, 1951-1956 and grew up with the electrics. My earliest memory is seeing a crowd on the footbridge at Monkseaton looking at a derailed steam loco and parcels train. From memory I think it was coming out of the dock at the south east corner of the station and may have been on its side. Does anyone have any further info/date on this?

 

Ernie

Edited March 15, 2013 by Irishswissernie

[Worsdell forever]

Hi Nigel

 

The passenger stock had buckeye couplings, the parcels had drop buckeye and buffers just like a Mk1 coach.

They're not actually, they were known as a 'Cow head coupling' (not sure if that's their official name) that had a fixed bar between them to couple units together. If you look closely at Ernie's photo, above, you can see the screw link coupling is attached to one of these bars and the cow head is in place.

 

Incidently and slightly OT, the NER was an early user of the Buckeye, more correctly Gould, coupling on some suburban stock.

[Mallard60022]

What a treasure of information chaps. The photo's are amazing and that short bit in the Trolly film is a total gem. Porcy, thanks for all the bother of getting that tunnel entrance marked up - brilliant. About three or four years back I did a 'site visit' and was just getting the hang of where things were but got caught in a thunderstorm and retreated to that lovely bar at the Central (ex restaurant recently renovated i believe?). I visited the Newcastle Archives Office (fascinating place) by appointment. However, I realised that I didn't really have enough info to ask the right questions to get any relevant info. I think the library service would have been a better target but that was a long way from the area I think. 

I can see why folk think that the 'new bridge' 'tunnel' is the entrance as this is where the 3rd rail started and the juice changeover took place, hence the little hut and signal set up. 

Am I right in thinking that the ES1 was always at the top end of the trains even on descent? I also believe the J72s went down/back up with the ES1?

I can see why Steve first wanted to build this little layout of T'r Yard. It was a great place. You may be interested that he scratch built everything including the ES1 and Guard's van that came with the layout; it was also EM with handbuilt track although the main line was 'compromised' to two tracks. 

I only wish I had seen the Quayside in those days but I was but a nipper when I passed through Newcastle en route to Consett (bus) or Whitley Bay (electrics).

I think Arthur K has some shots of the J72 on the eastern section of the Quayside complex (or was that the Riverside area?)

I've got some detail shots from the NRM Shildon ES1. Very helpful staff there; I booked a cab visit and photo session some time back.

I will try and get some posted on my main PC as this is a new laptop not yet set up with all my gubbins - it may take some time as I'm a PC duffer.

Phil

Edited March 15, 2013 by Mallard60022

[Armchair Modeller]

The Tyneside machines do look remarkably similar to these, used in Paris

 

[Mallard60022]

Uncanny resemblance!

Here are some Shildon pics and thanks to the NRM for allowing me to show these for private use only please.

[i've got some others if anyone wants them?

I'm sure everyone knows there were some 'detail' differences between the tw locos e.g. handrail knob positions on the bonnets?

P

Edited March 15, 2013 by Mallard60022

[Armchair Modeller]

I suspect the NER ones were a development of the French ones - or at least inspired by them. The French ones were around 1900. 

 

The NER electric locomotives were built in 1905. The frames and bodies were constructed by Brush, who werr subcontractors to British Thomson-Houston Co. BTH supplied the electrical equipment.

 

See http://www.bzt87.com/BOITES%20A%20SEL/index.htm for more info on the french ones

Edited March 15, 2013 by Armchair Modeller

[Mallard60022]

Cracking link Armchair. You know, I learn so much each day through this web forum. I'd never have made any link between the ES1 and the French builds.

I can even translate some of the captions due to railway related language

Wonder if oldddudders has seen this?

Thank you.

P

Edited March 15, 2013 by Mallard60022

[Fenman]

I suspect the NER ones were a development of the French ones - or at least inspired by them. The French ones were around 1900 by Thomson Houston. 

 

The NER electric locomotives were built in 1905. The frames and bodies were constructed by Brush, who werr subcontractors to British Thomson-Houston Co. BTH supplied the electrical equipment.

 

They were both based on an earlier design by US General Electric.

 

The NER pair was actually built in 1903-4 (ordered in late 1902 after the BTH tender was accepted), but did not enter service until 1905.

 

Paul

[Orinoco]

They were both based on an earlier design by US General Electric.

 

The NER pair was actually built in 1903-4 (ordered in late 1902 after the BTH tender was accepted), but did not enter service until 1905.

 

Paul

Either way, the fact that they may well have been designed and built by contractors means we now have an excuse to run the Bo-Bos on any line in any part of the world.

[Fenman]

Either way, the fact that they may well have been designed and built by contractors means we now have an excuse to run the Bo-Bos on any line in any part of the world.

 

I completely agree with you. Being utterly inept, I have a Judith Edge kit being built for me at the moment.

 

If I like it as much as I suspect I will, I was wondering what justification I could have for a fleet of them.

 

Paul

[Xerces Fobe2]

They were both based on an earlier design by US General Electric.

 

The NER pair was actually built in 1903-4 (ordered in late 1902 after the BTH tender was accepted), but did not enter service until 1905.

 

Paul

Like this....

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69358-tyneside-electrics/?p=980573

 

XF

[durham light infantry]

Perhaps the talented, fertile and ubiquitous Worsdell forever, could be persuaded to post some pics of his Tyneside layout "Fellburn"?

 

Mike

[Arpster]

From the SLS talk I attended recently, it seems the ES1s were used very much as testbeds by General Electric, and to show the railway world what electric traction could do. They seemed to be very simple beasts, with tram-style controllers and very mechanical set-ups inside. They certainly did the job, but it appeared that the establishment of the Tyneside Electric systems was a bit of a trial-and-error job, slowly figuring out this new form of traction and gradually perfecting it over the decades.

 

As Porcy says, the tunnel under New Bridge Street (classified as a tunnel because it was over a certain length which I can't remember) is still there, but it's hard to find the spot where the Quayside branch proper swung off to the right to head down the gradient. As for the lower portal on the Quayside proper, the best point of reference is the church on City Road which is visible in some of the older photos. The tunnel mouth was directly due south of the church, between it and the river. It is therefore buried somewhere under the corner of the new flats and the vacant plot covered with a grassy bank is over the exchange yard area. Photos from this Flickr set here show the site being redeveloped in the early 1990s:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/seacoaler/sets/72157631896656199/

 

The location of the Co-operative Warehouse, now the Malmaison Hotel, help to position the old yard too. For example, this photo here:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/seacoaler/8144049286/in/set-72157631896656199

 

Can almost be recreated in Google Streetview (although the perspective is out):

 

https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=54.97142,-1.594529&spn=0.004754,0.013937&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=54.97142,-1.594529&panoid=KXCaI8onNmA4hHCauix7xA&cbp=12,274.91,,0,0

 

I guess the massive stone retaining wall is somewhere under that grass bank to the right.

 

Arp

[Mallard60022]

I'm sure the old upper entrance was swept away when the Metro line was developed. However, I have been sure before and...............  

P

[Mallard60022]

Perhaps the talented, fertile and ubiquitous Worsdell forever, could be persuaded to post some pics of his Tyneside layout "Fellburn"?

 

Mike

Who dat man?

He,he, he.......

P

[Arpster]

I'm sure the old upper entrance was swept away when the Metro line was developed. However, I have been sure before and...............

P

 

If you enter the co-ordinates 425952, 564555 into old-maps.co.uk it's possible to see the old portal disappearing under the Stoddart Street bridge. To the south of the Quayside branch here was a factory where wagon sheets were manufactured, with rail-served sidings linked to Trafalgar Yard. Looking at this aerial view: http://binged.it/15QNiW8 - it is possible to see the old New Bridge Street portal (from earlier photos in this thread) in the bottom right-hand corner (now disused) and that the current Metro turn-back sidings occupy the site of the cutting at the start of the Quayside gradient and the former wagon sheet factory. Similarly, here is the other end of the branch: http://binged.it/140ACy6 - the portal was somewhere south of the church.

 

Arp

[Porcy Mane]

the portal was somewhere south of the church.

 

Arp

It was straight across the road from the Premier Inn entrance. Oh no it wasn't... (Mr W's residence when "he's oot on the Hoy") When you next see him, ask him what the works record is for number of people stopping in one Premier Inn room.

See earlier post #77.

P

Edited March 16, 2013 by Porcy Mane

[Norm81]

You're slightly out there. There's nothing left. Even the Tyne Tees TV studio and the legendary Tube TV Studio has gone from a few hundred yards up the bank. 

(Sorry I was starting to get misty eyed about "Frida neets oot" oggling  Paula Yates in the Egypt Cottage[Pub])

Have a look at the Pic. I've circled the tunnel entrance in red. If you compare it now with Google or bing you will see that area has been totally filled. Your google grab is of just below Horatio Street. The quayside tracks ran to the left of your view. 

There was large transhipment sheds there. Their last use was as large indoor auto dismantlers.

 

NCLQuaysideBranch copy.jpg

 

Here is your concrete wall. The tunnel entrance was behind the Chimney. You can see the yards retaining wall there. The east entrance to the yard was just out of shot to the left of the elevated wooden office.

52-20 by GBDT, on Flickr

 

And another pic taken from the same spot but looking in the opposite direction.

With apologies for drifting slighly from electrics.

 

TracklayingQuayside.jpg

 

HTH

P

I really did think the entrance was more in line with the west gable end of the church, which would put it closer to the turning circle. If the end of the wall still visible is the same as in the picture above, then the building the chimney is attached to must be longer than I've thought or something, nevermind.

[ArthurK]

 

I think Arthur K has some shots of the J72 on the eastern section of the Quayside complex (or was that the Riverside area?)

Phil

Indeed I have. Here it is again just to add a little more to the discussion.

 

 

And here is 26501 resting at Heaton. As someone pointed out earlier there is no overhead or third rail here.

 

 

 

There was also a reference to an accident at Monkseaton. This was a J27 (which did survive). I believe the cause was a broken tender axle. There is a pohoto of this around somewhere. Bothe loco and tender ebded up on their sides.

 

ArthurK

[Mallard60022]

Thanks Arthur. Good to hear from you again so thanks for posting  those. I think the ES1s had been withdrawn by the time the above pics were taken?

I seem to remember in a previous discussion about the J72 that it was beside the Co-op mills? If so where were they then in relation to the lower tunnel? Were they out the gate and east? 

P

Edited March 15, 2013 by Mallard60022

[Michael Delamar]

just going back to this page again http://www.railways.whblakey.co.uk/index.php?page=tyneside-electrics

 

whats interesting is the housing in the background at South Gosford, in later shots high rise flats have sprung up, looking on google earth now it appears that the flats and houses in these shots have gone?

[xm607]

Hi,

Another interesting thing is the guards van that worked with the electrics, it was one of four built by the LMS using their components as a prototype for a standard guards van, one of these were allocated to each of the big four company's for trials before the war if I remember correctly so that when the production for the standard van came along it would be accepted. Instead the LNER van was adopted with a few mods, a drawing of it is in the book LMS wagons vol 1.

Models of this van can be made from the LMS guards van in the main scales, the 4mm one that I built started out as a Stanier 20 toner before a razor saw was taken to it, I have also built a van in 7mm scale with the Slaters kit as a starting point I must get around to getting a loco to go with it.

Steve.