Mol_PMB Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Interesting to see how the framing on the fixed part of the side is rather different to accommodate the sliding door, compared to the original hinged door design. I suspect these could be modelled from a normal Shocvan kit with scratchbuilt sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Yes those are the ones. I think they may be ex M.o.D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dan Randall Posted March 7, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Not sure if the original enquirer is still on here but I thought I'd add a couple of pics in case other people are searching for info on these. Hi Mol - I was the original enquirer, so thanks for posting the pictures. Having seen where said wagon is located though, it’s a long way from my home in Wiltshire, so even without lockdown, I can’t see myself making a field trip there, unfortunately... If anyone one does know the whereabouts of one of these wagons further south, I’d love to hear from them please, though with so few built, I realise it’s a bit of a long shot. Regards Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Preserved Railway Stocklist - Search List (ukprsl.uk) Quite a few seem to be listed here? Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Are these any good? Wagon at Bitton on the Avon Valley Railway. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 21 hours ago, Dan Randall said: Hi Mol - I was the original enquirer, so thanks for posting the pictures. Having seen where said wagon is located though, it’s a long way from my home in Wiltshire, so even without lockdown, I can’t see myself making a field trip there, unfortunately... If anyone one does know the whereabouts of one of these wagons further south, I’d love to hear from them please, though with so few built, I realise it’s a bit of a long shot. Regards Dan Bitton isn’t that far from Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted March 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dagworth said: Bitton isn’t that far from Wiltshire I thought the same but after a re-read I think OP is now after a hinged door version... Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dan Randall Posted March 8, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 53 minutes ago, Dagworth said: Bitton isn’t that far from Wiltshire That’s true and I may well make a visit at some point, but the hinged door version (on the previous page), is up Bolton way! Regards Dan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dan Randall Posted March 8, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 51 minutes ago, Gilbert said: I thought the same but after a re-read I think OP is now after a hinged door version... Chris Yes indeed, but it would be nice to model both at some point, unless Dapol beat me to it! Regards Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dan Randall Posted March 8, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 Nice pictures Gordon - thank you. Regards Dan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 Interestingly it looks like all 3 lots were different, despite all being termed Diagram 219. So you have three to model! Looking at https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brpalshocvan Lot 3216 had hinged doors, and had the shock-absorbing springs inside the solebars. Plain bearings and chunky parallel-shank buffers. Lot 3311 had hinged doors, with the shock-absorbing springs outside the solebars. Roller bearings (maybe retrofit?) and Oleo buffers. Lot 3347 had sliding doors, with the shock-absorbing springs outside the solebars. Roller bearings (maybe retrofit?) and Oleo buffers. The brake gear and the rest of the underframe looks similar on all 3 types. If you go here and select 'palshocvan' in 'specific wagon type' it will bring up images of about 20 surviving bodies including at least one in Wiltshire! http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/wsearch.asp http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=11262 I don't think the one I found last week is on this list. They seem to have had a surprisingly high survival rate though. This one in Bristol is not on the correct sort of underframe: http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=7117 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 Were these as susceptible to derailment as the original palvans? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, russ p said: Were these as susceptible to derailment as the original palvans? Good question! The suspension looks similar to a normal vanfit, so one might expect them to ride the same. However, I think an influencing factor was the way that the palvans were loaded, so maybe the palshocvans did have problems. The non-shoc palvans had auxiliary rubber suspension as originally built, and some were later fitted with an inclined link suspension; I don't think either were ideal. A general problem at this time was increasing freight train speeds on CWR rail, which tended to encourage hunting on most short-wheelbase wagons. It's possible that the palvans were seen as the villains because they were more likely to be formed into fast block trains? I would be interested to find out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted March 8, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Good question! The suspension looks similar to a normal vanfit, so one might expect them to ride the same. However, I think an influencing factor was the way that the palvans were loaded, so maybe the palshocvans did have problems. The non-shoc palvans had auxiliary rubber suspension as originally built, and some were later fitted with an inclined link suspension; I don't think either were ideal. A general problem at this time was increasing freight train speeds on CWR rail, which tended to encourage hunting on most short-wheelbase wagons. It's possible that the palvans were seen as the villains because they were more likely to be formed into fast block trains? I would be interested to find out. I think part of the problem with the original ones were heavy doors diagonally opposed so especially empty that would set up strange weight distribution problems When did the last of any palvan varieties get withdrawn? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 8, 2021 Any interested in making one here is a drawing I knocked up using the BR diagram as a basis. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dan Randall Posted March 8, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said: Interestingly it looks like all 3 lots were different, despite all being termed Diagram 219. So you have three to model! Looking at https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brpalshocvan Lot 3216 had hinged doors, and had the shock-absorbing springs inside the solebars. Plain bearings and chunky parallel-shank buffers. Lot 3311 had hinged doors, with the shock-absorbing springs outside the solebars. Roller bearings (maybe retrofit?) and Oleo buffers. Lot 3347 had sliding doors, with the shock-absorbing springs outside the solebars. Roller bearings (maybe retrofit?) and Oleo buffers. The brake gear and the rest of the underframe looks similar on all 3 types. If you go here and select 'palshocvan' in 'specific wagon type' it will bring up images of about 20 surviving bodies including at least one in Wiltshire! http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/wsearch.asp http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=11262 I don't think the one I found last week is on this list. They seem to have had a surprisingly high survival rate though. This one in Bristol is not on the correct sort of underframe: http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=7117 That’s great Mol - one in Bristol and one in Corsham, so much closer to home. Thank you so much! Regards Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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