Glorious NSE Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Every so often about the railways you come along something that's absolutely fine....but just looks totally wrong! Here's your starter for 10 - whoever thought that writing 'GO' on a signal was a good idea!! (GO was the code for Gospel Oak, since closed and it's signals now controlled from Upminster) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I'm supposing that "RA" (Radley) was never affixed in the same way? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 The "F OFF" indication on an Underground repeater signal always brings a smile to my face! XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2013 there is a signal just north of derby on the up line at st marys which can take you from the fast to the goods, it is positioned with a signal for the goods on the same gantry, however when you are signalled over to the goods you get a proceed aspect with a No 1 route indicator HOWEVER the signal on the goods can also show a proceed at the same time which can be a bit disconcerting, there is however of course another stop signal on the goods just before the crossover! another one i noticed recently is where the chiltern line crosses over the north london line between west hampstead and brondsbury there is a signal that still shows a proceed aspect even if there is a train stood in brondsbury station which is well in advance of the signal, a long long way from what i would consider the signal overlap, not sure if its a "distant" signal though but it doesn't look right! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2013 The modern railway can throw up some odd combinations. The First/GBRf 73 was dragging the other 3 locos The one I didn't photograph, was the LM153, coupled to an Arriva Wales 150/2 deep into North-West England on a Northern Rail service. (Both units were on hire to NR) Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bayford Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The modern railway can throw up some odd combinations. The First/GBRf 73 was dragging the other 3 locos DSCF5208s.jpg The one I didn't photograph, was the LM153, coupled to an Arriva Wales 150/2 deep into North-West England on a Northern Rail service. (Both units were on hire to NR) Cheers, Mick Off topic i know but is the SWT liveried ED battle of britain per chance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 18, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2013 Off topic i know but is the SWT liveried ED battle of britain per chance? Yes - 73109. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2013 I'm supposing that "RA" (Radley) was never affixed in the same way? I would be surprised if it wasn't although it only applied on two signals (RA1 and RA 36) and not for very long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 22, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 22, 2013 I think this may be the thread for this photo. The sign is no longer there. I hope drivers always obeyed it! Aberystwyth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2013 Regards the signal on the north london line i mentioned above, managed to get a pic of it today as i was pass back from london in the back cab so could shhot a short video and capture a still from it Here is the signal, which is an automatic type, and you can see brondsbury station in the distance, what you can get is a train stood in the platform but that signal is still showing a green, dont know if the line is double blocked or something but it certainly made me look twice when i first saw it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 The position of station platforms is (mostly) unrelated to the signalling system and potentially if the platform is still within the overlap of the signal it will not return to danger - as this is an auto signal this is more likely to be the case as these tend to have long sections & long overlaps - that is some length of overlap though - one of the more knowledgable S&T guys can give chapter and verse - I'm just a PW thickie............... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2013 Regards the signal on the north london line i mentioned above, managed to get a pic of it today as i was pass back from london in the back cab so could shhot a short video and capture a still from it Here is the signal, which is an automatic type, and you can see brondsbury station in the distance, what you can get is a train stood in the platform but that signal is still showing a green, dont know if the line is double blocked or something but it certainly made me look twice when i first saw it I'm not familiar with the present layout there, but from the photo and Google Earth I would estimate that the overlap is well down the platform. A short train stopping at the road end may well be clear of the replacement joint for an automatic signal without separate overlap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2013 The position of station platforms is (mostly) unrelated to the signalling system and potentially if the platform is still within the overlap of the signal it will not return to danger - as this is an auto signal this is more likely to be the case as these tend to have long sections & long overlaps - that is some length of overlap though - one of the more knowledgable S&T guys can give chapter and verse - I'm just a PW thickie............... Exactly so - not at all unusual to find station platforms within overlaps although I think the Southern tried quite hard to avoid it on some of their 1970s and later schemes. Incidentally you will find one or two spots on the 'curvy bits' of the tames Valley between Reading and Didcot where trains can get out of sight before clearing the overlap - you wonder when the signal is going to drop to red! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2013 Then on the flip side regards overlaps the latest style of banner repeators return to danger as the train passes it but before it reaches the signal! Dorridge on the up is a prime example as we sit in the passenfer loop to allow XC to pass so see it regularly, next time i do it i'll grab a video Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 ISTR that the mandated length of overlaps has also become longer in recent times due to more stringent signalling design standards ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Singpoint Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 An interesting combination would be having a signal like this ending up in the Cambridge control area!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2013 thinking about the pic at brondsbury, IF the area is axle counters would it have an overlap as such? if the counter treadle is beyond the station then it wouldn't return to danger i only thought about it after working a train back from leamington earlier, i was looking out for insulated joints beyond signals to get idea of what sort of overlap there is but couldn't see any, only treadles, none of which seemed to be a uniform distance from the signals there also on closer inspection of the photo appears to be no TPWS fitted, SO could it be possible that if a driver spadded that signal he could continue into brondsbury station unaware or worse still into the rear of a train stood in the station? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2013 Here is the LED banner at dorridge, it must work with axle counters as there are a set about 3m past the banner, the magnet for the next signal is about 30m beyond and the signal it coresponds to is at the end of dorridge platform (7 coach long) The 5 coach train approaches the banner which is off And as the last coaches passes over the treadle the banner goes back to the ON position despite the fact the front of the train will still be a good 3 coach lengths off the signal!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 25, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2013 An interesting combination would be having a signal like this ending up in the Cambridge control area!!! Picc P14.jpg ooh you are awful Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2013 This looks wrong, but isn't http://www.flickr.com/photos/minispotter/8584104204/ Didn't manage to capture it myself as it was due to go north via the S&C but got diverted via WCML due to snow drifts at Kirkby Stephen. However, I may try and recreate something similar at York Ex this weekend - makes a change from yellow for me. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 thinking about the pic at brondsbury, IF the area is axle counters would it have an overlap as such? if the counter treadle is beyond the station then it wouldn't return to danger i only thought about it after working a train back from leamington earlier, i was looking out for insulated joints beyond signals to get idea of what sort of overlap there is but couldn't see any, only treadles, none of which seemed to be a uniform distance from the signals there also on closer inspection of the photo appears to be no TPWS fitted, SO could it be possible that if a driver spadded that signal he could continue into brondsbury station unaware or worse still into the rear of a train stood in the station? Most of the signalling system doesn't "know" or "care" whether train detection is provided by track circuits or axle counters. Either of them feed a particular relay or a bit of memory which says whether a particular track section is occupied or not, which is used by all the signals etc that have that track section in their controls. So on an axle counter installation you'll find the heads exactly where the insulated joints would be if track circuits were being used and the overlaps will work in exactly the same way. I believe it's been standard practice for some time to include the track sections between a banner and the signal it repeats in the controls for the banner, though I don't think there has to be a track circuit joint (or axle counter head) between the banner and the signal and if there isn't then the banner will remain at clear until the main signal goes back to danger. I agree there is some risk at that Brodnesbury signal if the driver SPADs the previous signal or is talked by he may assume he is in the clear and accelerate towards a standing train, which would probably be hidden behind that block of flats. TPWS at the signal in the photo wouldn't help with this, as the signal would be showing a proceed aspect so the TPWS wouldn't be armed. Possibly the previous signal has TPWS, in which case the original SPAD is much less likely to cause this hazard. For TPWS to protect the train in the platform the overlap would need its own detection section, which would also put the signal back to danger as the train passed the signal. As stated there are no rules against putting a station in an overlap but to do so reduces the capacity of the route particularly if it is a busy station, as if a train is standing at the station a following train cannot pass the second signal back from the platform. Beeston is another one like that, though the signal is pretty much at the bottom of the platform ramp. I think the signals have just gone up for resignalling in August so I must check whether they have moved that one further back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted March 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2013 thinking about the pic at brondsbury, IF the area is axle counters would it have an overlap as such? if the counter treadle is beyond the station then it wouldn't return to danger i only thought about it after working a train back from leamington earlier, i was looking out for insulated joints beyond signals to get idea of what sort of overlap there is but couldn't see any, only treadles, none of which seemed to be a uniform distance from the signals there also on closer inspection of the photo appears to be no TPWS fitted, SO could it be possible that if a driver spadded that signal he could continue into brondsbury station unaware or worse still into the rear of a train stood in the station? Regarding axle counters, they don't use treadles (i.e. the things used to activate AHBs, etc which have a physical lever on them depressed by the wheel flange), instead they use a count head which generates a magnetic field which is disrupted when a wheel passes through. A good way of spotting where they are is to look for the yellow 'mushrooms' located adjacent to the actual heads. Axle counters are also no different in regards placing than ordinary track circuits, the only key difference is that in locations where you might need several conventional indavidual track circuits due to voltage drop i.e. AB1, AB2, AB3 (IIRC the single line Swindon - Kemble has 16 sections) you only require one set of axle counter equipment to do the same job. As regards ovelaps beyond signals, the standard overlap is 200 yrds so if the signal is an automatic one the insulated joints / count heads / tuning units (depending on the type of track circuit installed may not be obvious. If they are controlled signals on the other hand there will usually be a seperate 'overlap track' just beyond the signal so you should have track circuit equipment located just beyond the signal itself. The overlap track can either be plain line or contain points etc however if the later is the case then the signalling controls become more complicated because of the need to keep this overlap clear and avalable whenever a train is approching the signal concerned. Unfortunatley the company's firewall prevents me from seeing the picture of the signal at Brondsbury, however TPWS is only fitted at controlled signals (and not necessarly all of those either), they key determining factor being to prevent colisions and junctions. The mere presence of a station is not something that would require TPWS unless there was a very specific risk at that particular site requiring mitigation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 27, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2013 High wycome Seems a bit odd advertising virgin services there as really its not an alternative to chiltern, london or birmingham i can understand as you have a choice but to get to a birmingham bound virgin service from wycome involves a minimum 25 mins train trip into london, tube over to euston (changing once or walking to baker st) then the 1:24 journey starts from there, the train i work tonight which makes 10 stops between wycome and birmingham takes 1:31!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted April 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 5, 2013 One I meant to 'ask about' a while ago but didn't get round to it. The loco is moving away but the headllight and marker lights were on at this end. I dont recall seeing that before so is it an error or standard practice that I just handn't noticed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted April 5, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2013 One I meant to 'ask about' a while ago but didn't get round to it. The loco is moving away but the headllight and marker lights were on at this end. I dont recall seeing that before so is it an error or standard practice that I just handn't noticed? drs 37.jpg If the loco is suitably wired/programmed, you can do that with DCC........... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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