Level crossing stupidity...

[LMS2968]

Well, it makes a change from changing bulbs...

[kevinlms]

On 08/02/2019 at 23:09, The Stationmaster said:

Oh I dunno - it is a BMW (but strangely it seems to have working indicators - must be a new model)

An emergency worker, must have activated them, because a 'normal' BMW driver wouldn't have known such a device existed!

[Titan]

Just remember, if you think your life is pointless, then fitting indicators to BMW's is enough to even make robots depressed.

[bimble]

9 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

Well, it makes a change from changing bulbs...

 

though this week I have had to change both a rear light and a headlight... the later being easier than I had been expecting....

[Welly]

First 1m20s of this video, an ambulance on blues and twos tries to go through an LC with barriers coming down, the train only just misses it! Filmed from a police car behind it!! 

 

https://youtu.be/94itkpvPrjg

[jcm@gwr]

52 minutes ago, Welly said:

First 1m20s of this video, an ambulance on blues and twos tries to go through an LC with barriers coming down, the train only just misses it! Filmed from a police car behind it!! 

 

https://youtu.be/94itkpvPrjg

 

I've seen that before, they were chasing the ambulance as it had been stolen,

the guy seen running away at the end of the video was the driver.

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, Welly said:

First 1m20s of this video, an ambulance on blues and twos tries to go through an LC with barriers coming down, the train only just misses it! Filmed from a police car behind it!! 

 

https://youtu.be/94itkpvPrjg

 

I think the police car with the camera is chasing the "ambulance" (which you can see at the end has had the name of the ambulance service removed, presumably having been sold on).

 

I don't think the policeman waving his arms at the train was going to achieve much.

 

[caradoc]

This story as reported by the local press;

 

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/17235700.man-jailed-after-horrifying-incident-at-kildwick-level-crossing/

 

The driver was already banned from the road, had 7 (seven) previous convictions for driving while disqualified and without insurance, was under the influence of drugs, and according to the judge was responsible for the worst case of dangerous driving he had ever seen. Still, at least the crime was treated appropriately and the full force of the law brought to bear with a massive severe sentence of.........22 months. That is an absolute joke.

 

[Coryton]

20 minutes ago, caradoc said:

This story as reported by the local press;

 

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/17235700.man-jailed-after-horrifying-incident-at-kildwick-level-crossing/

 

The driver was already banned from the road, had 7 (seven) previous convictions for driving while disqualified and without insurance, was under the influence of drugs, and according to the judge was responsible for the worst case of dangerous driving he had ever seen. Still, at least the crime was treated appropriately and the full force of the law brought to bear with a massive severe sentence of.........22 months. That is an absolute joke.

 

 

I'm surprised that ambulances are sold without removing the capability to use the blue flashing lights.

 

I presume the voice heard on the video describing the movements of the ambulance was from the helicopter mentioned in the article.

 

I suspect that this came very close to becoming by far the worst ever accident in the UK during a police chase and I wonder if it would have prompted some more discussion about when a police chase is the right thing to do. 

[TheQ]

I've bought an old ambulance and all the blue lights were removed. Also that one had the ability to flash the headlamps alternately and that was removed as well.

 

However, it wouldn't be hard to have fitted some of lights and flashing equipment..

 

People have been caught with fake never had been police cars to which they had added blue lights..

Edited February 11, 2019 by TheQ

[bigherb]

Doesn't need to have the lights. I used to drive a Hillman Hunter (favourite unmarked police car of the Met at the time) everybody used to drive like nuns at 30mph in front of me.

[Hobby]

I sometimes wonder about the driving bans... It should be two hits and you're off to jail. Far too many people seem to regard a ban as a minor inconvenience and carry on as if nothing's happened...

[Danemouth]

49 minutes ago, bigherb said:

Doesn't need to have the lights. I used to drive a Hillman Hunter (favourite unmarked police car of the Met at the time) everybody used to drive like nuns at 30mph in front of me.

 

Had a white Cortina at the end of the 1970s - same thing used to happen to me

 

Dave

 

[Gibbo675]

48 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I sometimes wonder about the driving bans... It should be two hits and you're off to jail. Far too many people seem to regard a ban as a minor inconvenience and carry on as if nothing's happened...

Hi Hobby,

 

You can only be jailed if you commit a crime.

 

Driving is covered by the road traffic act and is therefore classed as an offence, not a crime, hence withdrawal of privilege granted by license.

 

As for jail time, I would suggest be careful of what you wish for !

 

Gibbo.

[meil]

10 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Hobby,

 

You can only be jailed if you commit a crime.

 

Driving is covered by the road traffic act and is therefore classed as an offence, not a crime, hence withdrawal of privilege granted by license.

 

As for jail time, I would suggest be careful of what you wish for !

 

Gibbo.

The offence of driving whilst disqualified is a crime. As is the offence of exceeding the speed limit is a crime. You are tried in the Criminal courts and it is the criminal court that takes your Licence off you.

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, bigherb said:

Doesn't need to have the lights. I used to drive a Hillman Hunter (favourite unmarked police car of the Met at the time) everybody used to drive like nuns at 30mph in front of me.

I used to have a small white van, of the sort used by rural police and specialised units; I soon learnt not to wear my yellow hi-vi when driving it.

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Coryton said:

 

I'm surprised that ambulances are sold without removing the capability to use the blue flashing lights.

 

I presume the voice heard on the video describing the movements of the ambulance was from the helicopter mentioned in the article.

 

I suspect that this came very close to becoming by far the worst ever accident in the UK during a police chase and I wonder if it would have prompted some more discussion about when a police chase is the right thing to do. 

 

Given the ambulance was stolen - what is to say it wasn't stolen from a used vehicle dealer who had yet to remove the lights. I don't imagine the Ambulance service actually handle disposal themselves - they more likely simply auction them off to used vehicle dealers on a 'sold as seen' basis

 

The other possibility is the vehicle was potentially going to be sold / donated overseas (e.g. Syria / Africa / other war torn countries) as an ambulance and as such the blue lights were to be retained.

 

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Hobby,

 

You can only be jailed if you commit a crime.

 

Driving is covered by the road traffic act and is therefore classed as an offence, not a crime, hence withdrawal of privilege granted by license.

 

As for jail time, I would suggest be careful of what you wish for !

 

Gibbo.

Sorry about this but I don't know where you got your information from.  Many of the offences under the Road Traffic Act do not carry a prison sentence and are summary only, however there are several that do carry quite severe penalties, such as causing death by Dangerous or careless driving, driving whilst disqualified, driving whilst drunk or under the influence of drugs to name but a few.   there are several more. One, that was put in there after an incident in the Minders Strike, gets you up to 7 years for throwing things at a vehicle or putting an obstruction across a road.  However courts are relatively reluctant to use the powers that they have for driving offences.   When someone uses a car as a weapon, drives at and injures someone they usually get less prison time than if they had hit them with a hammer or other weapon.  

 

Jamie

[Gibbo675]

1 minute ago, jamie92208 said:

Sorry about this but I don't know where you got your information from.  Many of the offences under the Road Traffic Act do not carry a prison sentence and are summary only, however there are several that do carry quite severe penalties, such as causing death by Dangerous or careless driving, driving whilst disqualified, driving whilst drunk or under the influence of drugs to name but a few.   there are several more. One, that was put in there after an incident in the Minders Strike, gets you up to 7 years for throwing things at a vehicle or putting an obstruction across a road.  However courts are relatively reluctant to use the powers that they have for driving offences.   When someone uses a car as a weapon, drives at and injures someone they usually get less prison time than if they had hit them with a hammer or other weapon.  

 

Jamie

Dear Jamie,

 

Killing is a crime and that is what you would be jailed for, not for the road traffic offence that may have caused the death. It would seem that you have in fact corroborated what I stated initially.

 

According to Blacks Law Dictionary there are five types of crime, perhaps you could tell me what they are.

 

The miners strike incident where a concrete block was dropped onto a passing cars was murder by use of a concrete block, ie. the deliberate  killing of someone and not therefore an offence.

 

As an aside, your failure to understand what you or I have written does not make me incorrect.

 

Gibbo.

[Gibbo675]

1 hour ago, meil said:

The offence of driving whilst disqualified is a crime. As is the offence of exceeding the speed limit is a crime. You are tried in the Criminal courts and it is the criminal court that takes your Licence off you.

Hi Meil,

 

One of the five types of Crime listed by Blacks Law Dictionary is termed, "Using mischief in ones contracts", ie. fraud. Should you then attempt to continue conducting commerce with out the relevant license you are then committing mischief in your contract (fraud), that being the contract you signed with the Government when you signed your license. You would also be committing fraud by invalidating any insurances that rely upon the holding of a valid license that require you to indemnify yourself for any losses cause in your commercial activity that being the driving of a vehicle.

 

One of the most common mistakes is that of thinking crimes and offences are the same thing they are not.

 

The crime is in the defrauding of the contract.

 

Should you not understand either what you or I have written does not make me wrong !

 

Gibbo.

[jamie92208]

27 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Meil,

 

One of the five types of Crime listed by Blacks Law Dictionary is termed, "Using mischief in ones contracts", ie. fraud. Should you then attempt to continue conducting commerce with out the relevant license you are then committing mischief in your contract (fraud), that being the contract you signed with the Government when you signed your license. You would also be committing fraud by invalidating any insurances that rely upon the holding of a valid license that require you to indemnify yourself for any losses cause in your commercial activity that being the driving of a vehicle.

 

One of the most common mistakes is that of thinking crimes and offences are the same thing they are not.

 

The crime is in the defrauding of the contract.

 

Should you not understand either what you or I have written does not make me wrong !

 

Gibbo.

We could argue legal semantics for a long time and probably enjoy the discussion.  However in the mind of the general public crimes tend to be thought of as what the Home Office call recordable offences where we used to have to record a crime, that goes into the annual crime statistics.   These are broadly, any offences that carry imprisonment plus a few others that don't.   These then form the basis of a criminal record.   However none of the legal argument makes Level Crossings any safer.  The sentence at Kildwick was certainly quite high for a driving offence.   The other factor is the very strict sentencing guidelines that magistrates and judges operate under.  Many of these are specifically designed to keep people out of prison.

 

Jamie

[Compound2632]

There's been some discussion of the status of occupation crossings etc. In this context, Lt. Col. Mount's report into a level crossing accident in 1939 makes interesting reading - crossings that had been occupation crossings when the railway was built had become de facto public crossings through the actions of local (RD and County) councils, and through changes in land use, largely unbeknownst to the railway companies.

 

How much of the legislation cited is still applicable?

[johnofwessex]

9 hours ago, Hobby said:

I sometimes wonder about the driving bans... It should be two hits and you're off to jail. Far too many people seem to regard a ban as a minor inconvenience and carry on as if nothing's happened...

 

I suggest that there is a strong case for treating driving bans as an injunction with power of arrest so if you are caught driving when disqualified its off to the cells until there is a judge avalible to deal with your contempt, possibly by sending you straight to jail.

 

Ideal job for the Police to concentrate on on a Friday afternoon!

[jamie92208]

7 minutes ago, johnofwessex said:

 

I suggest that there is a strong case for treating driving bans as an injunction with power of arrest so if you are caught driving when disqualified its off to the cells until there is a judge avalible to deal with your contempt, possibly by sending you straight to jail.

 

Ideal job for the Police to concentrate on on a Friday afternoon!

That's exactly what happens now, it is an offence with what is known as a "Found Committing" power of arrest. In other words if someone is caught they can be arrested and then the usual legal and procedural rules apply as to whether or not they are bailed or kept in custody to go to the next available court.   When I was a custody officer I kept quite a few in like that when the circumstances fitted.

 

Jamie

[royaloak]

On 08/02/2019 at 20:51, St. Simon said:

 

Not quite a 'control', but the Class 80x have softer horns when travelling under 100mph.

 

Simon

<Pedant mode on>Actually its 104mph, <pedant mode off>

 

104mph was chosen so the valve wouldnt be going from soft to loud if it was set at 100mph as the train speed varied by a couple of mph as the train cruised along, as we are allowed a 3mph allowance setting it at 104mph means it will only switch when the train is deliberately driven at more than 100mph.

 

But as some/most of the high tones dont work on the 802s at the moment its a bit of a touchy subject.

Edited February 11, 2019 by royaloak