caradoc Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Many years ago now a Hunterston-Longannet coal train formed of HAA wagons was stopped waiting a path at Rutherglen old station in Glasgow. Two teenage boys, just messing around, climbed onto a wagon and of course received a shock from the 25kV OLE. One of the boys died, the other survived but with horrible injuries. After the event that boy was featured in a newspaper, showing what had happened to him and imploring others not be as daft as him and his friend, which I thought was a brave and responsible thing to do. 1 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted March 23, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2019 17 hours ago, roythebus said: We had a few at Rugby in the 1970s when I worked there, people nicking bits off Hillman Imps on the double deck Cartics. they'd lift the bonnet up to nick the battery and zappp. that'd be a fail then, the battery on an Imp is in the back. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 23, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 23, 2019 17 hours ago, roythebus said: We had a few at Rugby in the 1970s when I worked there, people nicking bits off Hillman Imps on the double deck Cartics. they'd lift the bonnet up to nick the battery and zappp. 29 minutes ago, Richard E said: that'd be a fail then, the battery on an Imp is in the back. Must be some battery to hold 25,000 volts. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted March 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 18:03, Richard E said: that'd be a fail then, the battery on an Imp is in the back. Point of principle, isn't it still the bonnet even though it's at the back as it covers the engine...? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 The rear engine cover on an Imp wouldn't reach the wires though... only the height of the car roof. Even though the engine was in the back, was the battery? And weren't they aluminium? Anyway... back to level crossings and 25kv burns. I was sternly warned during my work experience at St. Pancras, to be careful of the wires when using a long aluminium shaft brush to clean the windscreen. For a link, there must be incidents where the OHLE has been struck at a level crossing... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 There has been at least one on the LT&S near Dagenham, where a vehicle on a high car transporter caught the overhead; it was reduced to burnt-out scrap very quickly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnlambert Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 hours ago, daveyb said: The rear engine cover on an Imp wouldn't reach the wires though... only the height of the car roof. Even though the engine was in the back, was the battery? And weren't they aluminium? Anyway... back to level crossings and 25kv burns. I was sternly warned during my work experience at St. Pancras, to be careful of the wires when using a long aluminium shaft brush to clean the windscreen. For a link, there must be incidents where the OHLE has been struck at a level crossing... I'd be surprised if the boot lid on a Hilman Imp opened far enough to reach the wires, the (rear) engine cover certainly wouldn't. Not sure what you're referring to when you said, "And weren't they aluminium?"; the main aluminium component in the Imp was the engine. Imp saloons had an opening rear window that would, I think, open high enough to reach the OLE. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 Aluminium is still a conductor.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said: Aluminium is still a conductor.... Definitely. It's used for the grid cables. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 7 hours ago, daveyb said: Even though the engine was in the back, was the battery? Yes, page 44... http://www.imps4ever.info/library/1963/the-new-hillman-imp-owners-handbook.pdf 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 56 minutes ago, Ramblin Rich said: Aluminium is still a conductor.... I believe most metals are! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 11:21, caradoc said: Many years ago now a Hunterston-Longannet coal train formed of HAA wagons was stopped waiting a path at Rutherglen old station in Glasgow. Two teenage boys, just messing around, climbed onto a wagon and of course received a shock from the 25kV OLE. One of the boys died, the other survived but with horrible injuries. After the event that boy was featured in a newspaper, showing what had happened to him and imploring others not be as daft as him and his friend, which I thought was a brave and responsible thing to do. The more recent events in 2014 at Tyne Yard that led to two locals climbing on top of the HOBC barrier wagon in an attempt to show off to their girlfriends! DB were fined £2.7 million for this and another generation makes the same mistake! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said: The more recent events in 2014 at Tyne Yard that led to two locals climbing on top of the HOBC barrier wagon in an attempt to show off to their girlfriends! DB were fined £2.7 million for this and another generation makes the same mistake! Much of the basis for DB's fine was that they were aware that trespass into the yard was occurring and had done nothing to prevent such access. Jim 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Edge Hill in 1996 is another example, what ever the railways and BTP do to try to educate they continue to do it... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, johnlambert said: I'd be surprised if the boot lid on a Hilman Imp opened far enough to reach the wires, the (rear) engine cover certainly wouldn't. Not sure what you're referring to when you said, "And weren't they aluminium?"; the main aluminium component in the Imp was the engine. Imp saloons had an opening rear window that would, I think, open high enough to reach the OLE. It wouldn't necessarily have to touch the wires; dependent on atmospheric conditions, 25kV can jump a fairly wide gap. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2019 I once had an Imp van and I can confirm that the battery was in the back on the right hand side. Also the vans (and the Husky estate) tailgate was easily capable of opening high enough to make contact. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Fat Controller said: It wouldn't necessarily have to touch the wires; dependent on atmospheric conditions, 25kV can jump a fairly wide gap. The opening rear window on the Imp being glass would not conduct electricity and IIRC were frameless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: The opening rear window on the Imp being glass would not conduct electricity and IIRC were frameless. ...... and the de-mister wires wouldn't take 25kV for very many milliseconds. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, PhilJ W said: The opening rear window on the Imp being glass would not conduct electricity and IIRC were frameless. The path to earth might have been by the person opening said door/window. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Fat Controller said: It wouldn't necessarily have to touch the wires; dependent on atmospheric conditions, 25kV can jump a fairly wide gap. 600mm being the published minimum distance for getting close to live equipment, not that I would entirely recommend getting that close. Jim 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said: 600mm being the published minimum distance for getting close to live equipment, not that I would entirely recommend getting that close. Jim That's much closer than our regs (which are probably SNCF derived) allow. The distance we are told is 3 metres to any live 25kV . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2019 But surely that is less than the distance from the head of an adult passenger on a station platform to the OHLE. Jonathan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 You have to be careful (VERY CAREFUL) when looking at minimum distance figures for voltages. There is the theoretical (breakdown) distance. There is the minimum distance (worst case) for the environment. Think wind, rain, fog, etc. There is the minimum distance for materials used. Insulators, enclosures, etc, There is the minimum distance for jo-public. (..and what they could be [reasonably] expected to be carrying.) There is the minimum distance for authorised trained workers. There is the minimum distance for authorised trained workers using equipment near said voltages. etc, etc... ...and many many more. I regularly measure, calibrate, check, fault find, high voltages (up to 24kV dc) and my high voltage probe (RS Stock No. 360-0300, in calibration with a traceable paper train back to which standard required) is about 10inches from tip to handle, and is rated at 28kV ac rms, BUT there is no way I would use it near OHLE as its intended use takes no account of the environment conditions, the environmental special awareness required and the users (lake of) knowledge of the equipment. It is, however, perfectly safe for the uses I need it for. Don’t do anything with voltages except what you have been trained to do AND in the environment you are certified to do it in. Else:- KEEP OUT DANGER OF DEATH Kev. 4 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted March 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) This is doing the rounds on Facebook, Spalding apparently https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2277593369227219&id=100009297354048 not on there myself but hopefully the link will work Edited March 25, 2019 by big jim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Fat Controller said: That's much closer than our regs (which are probably SNCF derived) allow. The distance we are told is 3 metres to any live 25kV . The figures are in a BS EN standard, and the distance that everyone is taught (usually 2.75m) is actually measured from your feet, not your finger tips. If the minimum safe distance from closest point to closest point really was 3m (or 2.75m) the OLE under every steel bridge would be flashing over merrily even in summer. The BS EN in question (50110 I think, without going to look it up) has two zones round any live conductor - the danger zone, and the vicinity zone. The danger zone is exactly what is says - it should not be entered under any circumstances with the conductor live, and the vicinity zone, in plain English is a zone within which it is not unsafe, but which should not be entered intentionally. Jim 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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