Level crossing stupidity...

[Reorte]

46 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Sorry to upset you Mr Pedantic (I guessed you would have to reply) but motorways are not fenced, they are barriered, the barriers are to prevent out of control vehicles leaving the carriageway, they are in no way to prevent pedestrian access to the motorway which is what an item called a fence would be used for..

There are barriers as well in places but not everywhere. I don't recall seeing any motorways without some form of fencing - obviously most of it is easy enough to climb over (there's still plenty of railway fencing that is), but it's still there. Of course that might just be sheer practicality, and Richard E's post suggests it is - where would you not want some form of fence next to a motorway? Would a separate but not fenced off path or cycle track next to a motorway ever be permitted? Pedestrians and cyclists (and some other forms of traffic) are prohibited from motorways but I guess that could mean exactly where the tarmac is instead of the boundary.

[bigherb]

1 hour ago, Richard E said:

Motorways in the UK are not required to be fenced, in law, unlike railways. Any fencing is down to the adjacent landowner and as such we can see anything from post and wire through to acoustic barriers if required by the local authority.

Motorways are fenced for the same reason as railways to stop Larry lamb and any livestock wandering onto the carriageway and if they are the same as ours on the M5 are maintained by the Highways agency.

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, bigherb said:

Motorways are fenced for the same reason as railways to stop Larry lamb and any livestock wandering onto the carriageway and if they are the same as ours on the M5 are maintained by the Highways agency.

That was the original intention, but unfortunately Mr no win no fee Solicitor has managed to convince the Courts the fence is there to stop Mr and Master No IQ trespassing and if they manage to trespass and then injure themselves it is the railways fault.

[eastglosmog]

As an aside, one of our clients was going for planning consent to extend his quarry by a motorway.  DoT came up demanding a palisade fence be built alongside the motorway, where it abutted the existing quarry. (There was an existing post and rail fence erected when the motorway was built, chopping into the quarries land.) DoT were told (politely) to go away and play, as the quarry was adequately fenced on all the other sides and if they wanted a better fence, they could put it up themselves.

[Philou]

The fence along the motorway - the motorways with which I was involved - is usually along the limit of the land within which lies the motorway i.e. at the top of cuttings and at the bottom of embankments - plus a berm that may include a ditch. The fence may have been in timber, with wire mesh along its lower edge to prevent wild life from too readily accessing the 'special road' (it is NOT a highway open to all) or a steel fence. Rarely does the fence follow the edge of the carriageway and may therefore be not readily observed from a motorists viewpoint - not too different to a railway fence following embankments and cuttings.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[lmsforever]

Sadly it is not possible to stop the average idiot trespassing on the railway as the people now about in the uk who are likely to trespass will carry on regardless.I am continually disgusted by,  vandalisim of schools, hospitals ,young peoples projects etc and when caught the law is no use only giving light sentences.The driver of the train and the people who clear up should be looked after and helped to recover. 

[Coryton]

1 hour ago, Philou said:

The fence along the motorway - the motorways with which I was involved - is usually along the limit of the land within which lies the motorway i.e. at the top of cuttings and at the bottom of embankments - plus a berm that may include a ditch. The fence may have been in timber, with wire mesh along its lower edge to prevent wild life from too readily accessing the 'special road' (it is NOT a highway open to all) or a steel fence. Rarely does the fence follow the edge of the carriageway and may therefore be not readily observed from a motorists viewpoint - not too different to a railway fence following embankments and cuttings.

 

 

Tangentially relevant to this thread, but...

 

While motorways are, so far as I know, fenced off, dual carriageways with traffic permitted to travel at the same speed as on motorways don't seem to need fencing.

[Philou]

We-e-ell, I think if you have a look at the A470 northwards from Coryton, it's fenced pretty well all the way to Merthyr - but - equally there are a great number of roads that are not. (Most new-build roads are fenced, mainly to stop livestock.)

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

[Compound2632]

20 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

Tangentially relevant to this thread, but...

 

While motorways are, so far as I know, fenced off, dual carriageways with traffic permitted to travel at the same speed as on motorways don't seem to need fencing.

 

I believe this may have to do with the legal status of a motorway as a "special road"; unlike other roads it is not a right-of-way for all users.

[Davexoc]

Came here to read about level crossings, but it seems to have moved on to two people in white trying to stab each other with foils......!

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

Came here to read about level crossings, but it seems to have moved on to two people in white trying to stab each other with foils......!

 

Odd you should mention that. THE website for road nerds is SABRE...

[Porkscratching]

Is that how they settle their technical disagreements then...

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Coryton said:

 

Tangentially relevant to this thread, but...

 

While motorways are, so far as I know, fenced off, dual carriageways with traffic permitted to travel at the same speed as on motorways don't seem to need fencing.

 

Not much point, if they've got a footpath and a bus shelter... https://goo.gl/maps/d1hXHtyt9urVzvhA6

 

Nor a centre barrier.

 

Martin.

Edited April 29, 2019 by martin_wynne

[Hobby]

And that's only one of the bus stops on that stretch.... 

 

Having said that it has a 50 limit there.

[RJS1977]

11 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I once had to drop the paddles on the lock at Stratford. The people in the hireboat had completely failed to notice that they had jammed the bow of the boat under a crossmember of the lockgate and, water was pouring into the boat. About 20 seconds later and they would have sunk completely and very quickly.

 

I've seen someone manage to get a narrowboat sideways across the entrance to Caversham Lock, and I know someone managed to wedge one sideways in the Kennet & Avon Canal a few years ago!

[TheQ]

7 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

I've seen someone manage to get a narrowboat sideways across the entrance to Caversham Lock, and I know someone managed to wedge one sideways in the Kennet & Avon Canal a few years ago!

ER um On the course of the 3 Rivers Race (59th running, 1st and 2nd june 2019) is Potter Heigham bridge, we just pray some tourist doesn't do this during the race.  it is a regular occurance, note this boat is only an Elysian 27ft Aft cockpit boat. Many broads boats these days are 40ft... It's being held against the bridge by the incoming tide..

or this  note the lorry is in roughly the same place as the boat.

Edited April 30, 2019 by TheQ

[Hobby]

I suppose this is the ultimate thread drift, rail onto water!

 

I think people are being very unfair about novice boat handlers. We had a cabin cruiser on the canals back in the 60s and 70s (I still have our Silver Sword for a trip from Scarisbrick down to London and back via Sharpness, Oxford, Birmingham and many "remainder" canals!) when there were very few hire boats but plenty of privately owned cruisers and narrowboats. The antics of some of the owner-boats sometimes had to seen to be believed. I can remember getting into the odd scrape myself, though a powerful inboard/outboard usually got me out of them! I would expect novices to get into problems from time to time, same as "Sunday" drivers often do, but let's be honest about this, many boat owners (who should, in theory, know better) are just as bad.

[Dave Hunt]

1 minute ago, Hobby said:

I suppose this is the ultimate thread drift, rail onto water!

 

And from level crossings to bridges. I suppose we could go the whole hog and start discussing acqueducts?

 

Dave

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

I've seen someone manage to get a narrowboat sideways across the entrance to Caversham Lock, and I know someone managed to wedge one sideways in the Kennet & Avon Canal a few years ago! 

 

To top that, I've seen a small(ish) cruiser spinning around in the middle of Wyre Piddle lock on the Warwickshire Avon, its that diamond shaped lock.....

 

As for things happening at Potter, I suppose much of "The Art of Coarse Sailing" is relevant even today!

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Hroth

[Hroth]

9 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

And from level crossings to bridges. I suppose we could go the whole hog and start discussing acqueducts?

 

Dave

 

Or aqueducts that are paralleled by railway viaducts, like Chirk?

[TheQ]

7 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

And from level crossings to bridges. I suppose we could go the whole hog and start discussing acqueducts?

 

Dave

Well just out of shot to the left of the lorry in the water was the Yarmouth and North Norfolk Railway Bridge and about 200 yards north of that bridge was a......Level crossing...

Now it's just a cross roads because the YNNR became the A149. as a bypass to the medieval bridge.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101582408

[Wickham Green]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

Well just out of shot to the left of the lorry in the water was the Yarmouth and North Norfolk Railway Bridge and about 200 yards north of that bridge was a......Level crossing...

Now it's just a cross roads because the YNNR became the A149. as a bypass to the medieval bridge.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/101582408

Let's not get into crossroad stupidity too ......... we'll be here all night !

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Or aqueducts that are paralleled by railway viaducts, like Chirk?

 

[62613]

10 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Or aqueducts that are paralleled by railway viaducts, like Chirk?

And Marple

[caradoc]

On 29/04/2019 at 13:52, royaloak said:

What if they had decided to go for a walk on a nearby motorway (which are not fenced off) and got hit by a 44 tonne lorry, who would be at fault then?

 

The FACT the railway was fenced off (even if the locals had made holes in it) should have been enough to tell even the thickest of individuals they are not allowed in there, but this is 'great' Britain isnt it where the laws are there to protect the stupid and make their breaking of trespass laws somebody elses fault.

 

Yes I know what the law states but it doesnt mean that I, or any other sensible thinking person, agrees with them!

 

Actually I agree that in a perfect world nobody would ever do anything stupid, ill-advised or illegal, but we do not now, never have and probably never will, live in such a world. Therefore there is a duty, where risk exists, to protect people from their own actions, if reasonably possible. Note that in this case the railway was NOT fenced off; As reported by BBC News 'there was not a fence or gate stopping people leaving a public bridleway and walking onto the yard, and no warning signs to deter them'.

 

As for the difference in fencing between roads and railways, apart from the obvious fact that fencing every road is utterly impossible, every child is brought up to learn the dangers of traffic and how to cross roads safely (not that it always works; 34 child pedestrians were killed on the roads in 2016), and every person encounters roads and their hazards throughout their life. In contrast, most people do not have the faintest idea about how railways work, or how dangerous they can be, especially seemingly innocuous features like an extra rail along the track, or a piece of wire strung up above the line.

 

To go back to the Tyne Yard case, the reason DB were fined £2.7 million was not simply because children trespassed, it was because DB were aware of trespass and yet left their property wide open and insecure.