Level crossing stupidity...

[kevinlms]

17 minutes ago, dhjgreen said:

All those seem to be tram hits car when it should not be there.  Our yellow box road markings are similarly routinely ignored in Manchester.

What you mean the thickheads, can't turn wherever they like? We do have some yellow boxes too.

 

I've posted this before, but cars still seem to find there way into this part of Swanston Street. I wonder what else can done?

 

https://www.danielbowen.com/2014/08/12/you-shall-not-pass/

[jim.snowdon]

4 hours ago, dhjgreen said:

All those seem to be tram hits car when it should not be there.  Our yellow box road markings are similarly routinely ignored in Manchester.

My experience with Croydon was that the usual cause was a motorist chancing it by going through just after the red had come up and either getting caught corner to corner with the tram, or running into the side of the tram abreast or just behind the cab. And every time, all the tram company has to do is produce the footage from the forward facing cctv camera to demonstrate that the tram had a clear signal on approach.

 

Jim

[SHMD]

An honest question here.

 

Do the (Manchester) trams have to obey yellow box junction rules, as I always see trams entering these junctions when their exit is blocked and I'm quite sure they aren't going to turn right either!

(I know that Wolverhampton one managed it though - albeit with a bit of a nudge!)

 

I've been on several trams where they enter the blocked yellow crosshatching and then start using their horn(s) to bully the standing traffic (that shouldn't be there) even though it's blatantly obvious the standing traffic isn't going anywhere in the time the lights full sequence allow.

 

It's almost like a deliberate policy.

 

 

Kev.

[jim.snowdon]

22 minutes ago, SHMD said:

An honest question here.

 

Do the (Manchester) trams have to obey yellow box junction rules, as I always see trams entering these junctions when their exit is blocked and I'm quite sure they aren't going to turn right either!

(I know that Wolverhampton one managed it though - albeit with a bit of a nudge!)

 

I've been on several trams where they enter the blocked yellow crosshatching and then start using their horn(s) to bully the standing traffic (that shouldn't be there) even though it's blatantly obvious the standing traffic isn't going anywhere in the time the lights full sequence allow.

 

It's almost like a deliberate policy.

 

 

Kev.

They don't, and I can't say that I am surprised that the tram drivers get the message across.

 

Jim

[Titan]

I think you are entitled to enter the box when your exit is clear, irrespective of whether it is accessible at the time.

[jim.snowdon]

Trams are not highway vehicles within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act and have their own specific highway signs. Normal traffic signs and road markings do not apply to them.

 

Jim

[Wickham Green]

14 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Trams are not highway vehicles within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act and have their own specific highway signs. Normal traffic signs and road markings do not apply to them.

 

Jim

But, of course 99.9% of other road users don't know that ...... I suppose it might have been mentioned in the Blackpool edition of the Highway Code when I passed my test - but that's not the one I knew .........

[jim.snowdon]

Just now, Wickham Green said:

But, of course 99.9% of other road users don't know that ...... I suppose it might have been mentioned in the Blackpool edition of the Highway Code when I passed my test - but that's not the one I knew .........

Legally, every road user is meant to know what is in the current edition of the Highway Code, irrespective of when they passed their driving test. I rather suspect that very few do. On the other hand, would you employ an electrician who said he was still working to the 10th edition of the IEE Wiring Regulations (actually a Code of Practice) as that was what was current when he started?

 

Jim

[PatB]

22 hours ago, TheQ said:

They like cutting the roof off cars even when its not needed, a couple of years back they put a casualty in the back of a brand new police car... because he then complained of neck ache they cut the roof off..

 

I guess it's a combination of liability issues (primarily handling potential spinal injuries and the possible litigation stemming from failing to do so appropriately), and the fact that cutting the lid off a car is huge fun.

[boxbrownie]

22 hours ago, TheQ said:

They like cutting the roof off cars even when its not needed, a couple of years back they put a casualty in the back of a brand new police car... because he then complained of neck ache they cut the roof off..

They don’t “like” cutting the roof off any car, what they don’t like is putting people in wheelchairs for the rest of their life if a suspected injury is not treated the correct way.........a new car is far cheaper than treatment for an injured spine......

[TheQ]

It just means police are now told not to put casualties in their cars. but to let them wander around / sit outside in the rain..

[phil-b259]

On 17/08/2019 at 23:16, Catkins said:

Going back to the Bagult crossing incident, I noticed that the signaller at the work station had previously worked two mechanical boxes in NORFOLK!

If a train crew is supposed to have route knowledge, would it be an idea for the signallers responsible for a route to also study, and sign for, the route knowledge?

 

Signallers are not just plonked in front of a panel / workstation and told to get on with it! - even in these days where train and infrastructure operations were separated. Therefore the fact the signaller concerned began their career working mechanical boxes in Norfolk has NOTHING to do with their ability to operate a IECC workstation covering part of the North Wales route.

 

BEFORE any signaller can be signed off as competent to operate any given panel / workstation they must spend a considerable time as a trainee working under supervision of a signaller who is already passed out to work said panel.

 

The only problem with this setup is that it can lead to bad habits / incorrect assumptions to be passed on from the the current signallers to the new starters.

 

Obviously if the relevant signalling panel / workstation has been newly installed as part of a resignaling scheme then everyone will effectively be a 'learner - and although simulators* can be used to help get staff used to the new setup, if the training material / box instructions are deficient then so will the signallers knowledge.

 

* https://www.simsig.co.uk/Wiki/Show?page=usertrack:faq:conflict_of_interest  https://www.simsig.co.uk/

Edited August 21, 2019 by phil-b259

[Wickham Green]

35 minutes ago, TheQ said:

It just means police are now told not to put casualties in their cars. but to let them wander around / sit outside in the rain..

Maybe the Police should be issued with convertibles ......... then the casualty could sit IN the car in the rain.

[phil-b259]

17 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Trams are not highway vehicles within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act and have their own specific highway signs. Normal traffic signs and road markings do not apply to them.

 

Jim

 

Trams might not have to obey 'ordinary' traffic signs - but when running on a public highway they do have to comply with many of the other regulations relating to ordinary road traffic. For example trams must feature working brake lights that illuminate when the tram slows and indicators that flash on the appropriate side when turn at a road junction (even when the rail dictate the tram can do nothing else but turn). I believe that  tram drivers must also hold a regular driving licence (just as bus drivers must hold a ordinary driving licence as well as the PCV variant). I also believe that when it comes to motoring offences, the driver of a tram on a public highway can be charged with standard motoring offences like 'driving without due care and attention thus indicating the law basically treats a tram as a bus (albut one whose route is fixed).

Edited August 21, 2019 by phil-b259

[caradoc]

17 hours ago, Titan said:

I think you are entitled to enter the box when your exit is clear, irrespective of whether it is accessible at the time.

 

But if your exit is not accessible, surely it is not clear ?!!

 

The purpose of the Yellow Box is to prevent standing traffic blocking other routes, after say traffic lights have changed, that must apply to trams just as to any other vehicle on the road ?

 

[Hobby]

http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/highway_legislation_for_tramcars_technical_guidance_note4.pdf

 

Love the fact they've used a picture of a Continental tram as the header photo! (Somewhere in Germany by the look of it)

[Titan]

1 hour ago, caradoc said:

 

But if your exit is not accessible, surely it is not clear ?!!

 

 

 

Nope, it is why you allowed to enter the box when turning right, there may be oncoming traffic making your exit inaccessible, but as long as it is clear you are allowed to go in.

[Wickham Green]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/highway_legislation_for_tramcars_technical_guidance_note4.pdf

 

Love the fact they've used a picture of a Continental tram as the header photo! (Somewhere in Germany by the look of it)

You'd think they could have reversed the photo so the cars were on the right - i mean left / correct side of the road.

[Coryton]

On 21/08/2019 at 13:07, caradoc said:

 

But if your exit is not accessible, surely it is not clear ?!!

 

The purpose of the Yellow Box is to prevent standing traffic blocking other routes, after say traffic lights have changed, that must apply to trams just as to any other vehicle on the road ?

 

 

At least where trams have separate traffic lights, I would have thought they would be programmed so that didn't happen.

[bimble]

1 hour ago, Coryton said:

 

At least where trams have separate traffic lights, I would have thought they would be programmed so that didn't happen.

 

It won't... unless a car has queued across the tracks in the yellow box, so when the lights for the tram change to green they are unable to traverse the yellow box because they find a car that shouldn't be there. The tram's exit is clear, they are being stopped by a car illegally stopping in the junction.

[JDW]

On 21/08/2019 at 14:15, Hobby said:

http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/highway_legislation_for_tramcars_technical_guidance_note4.pdf

 

Love the fact they've used a picture of a Continental tram as the header photo! (Somewhere in Germany by the look of it)

 

Presumably Berlin - at least, it's a Berlin tram and the registration plates on the cars are German, although ex-Berlin high-floor trams have been used elsewhere too.

[daveyb]

Unfortunate incident Near Winnipeg, MB  Canada on the Canadian Pacific line leading SW from the city and involving a northbound coal train.

 

Global News article here gives a few details but is down to usual press standards. It also links to a recent increase in public concern over rail safety in Canada following a few high profile incidents and the Prairie hot potato that is the oil pipeline argument.  There was a 15 car derailment at Irvine, AB, near Medicine Hat, two weeks ago that released/spilled some noxious chemicals and caused significant disruption, though that was a caused by an expansion kink on the hottest day of the year so far.

 

On average, a member of the public is killed every other day on the rails in Canada, most crossings are open and uncontrolled in rural areas and people take their chances. There are also few fences and people use the tracks as short cut route on foot and in cars, often under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

 

Their is a different mindset at work here. Whereas in UK the barriers are down quite a long time (in comparison) before the train passes, and there is much more road traffic, in Canada the train may take a very long time to pass by, so people just try get across in front or be stuck there.  And no one will see as there is little traffic!... The image of slow freight bumbling across the Prairie is very outdated with many trains running at 55-60mph and people think they have time. They don't!

 

Both the cities of Winnipeg and Regina are pushing for diversions of some busy lines to free up the road crossings for the increased traffic on the roads, a reaction to their poor planning when building these main roads and bypasses over rail lines that have been there for over 100 years. Neither CN nor CP have given the cities any reason to think theywill invest the billions of dollars it would cost to move and reroute these lines.

Edited August 27, 2019 by daveyb
Corrected link

[101]

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/drivers-warned-to-not-jump-the-barriers-at-essex-level-crossings

[mozzer models]

18 hours ago, 101 said:

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/drivers-warned-to-not-jump-the-barriers-at-essex-level-crossings

I think the driver of the black Ford will need a change of pants. Look's like they did not see the stop line of traffic & almost hit the white van 

Edited September 26, 2019 by mozzer models

[Hobby]

Just out of interest what is the speed limit over the crossing as that black car was certainly motoring (and not looking where he was going as he missed the brake lights right in front of him!)?