Level crossing stupidity...

[Dunsignalling]

15 hours ago, Aire Head said:

It's 30 seconds between the vehicle on the tracks and the train. The police can clearly be seen waving at the train as it approaches while the train also uses its horn. 

 

Grabbing a phone wouldnt have made a difference.

But there could easily have been a second train approaching two or three minutes out and, if you think getting hit by one train smarts....

 

John

Edited December 12, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[royaloak]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

One push of a button these days!

Exactly, and having been on the receiving end of an Emergency Stop message even I was amazed how quick the brake handle went into emergency, it was before I had even thought about it, quite surreal really, and modern trains stop bloomin quick!

[Hobby]

Yes, our Drivers have said the same thing!

[big jim]

9 hours ago, royaloak said:

Exactly, and having been on the receiving end of an Emergency Stop message even I was amazed how quick the brake handle went into emergency, it was before I had even thought about it, quite surreal really, and modern trains stop bloomin quick!

the couple of occasions I’ve had an emergency stop I’ve not put the brake into emergency but used full service, that way I still had some control of the train If I needed to take the brake off rather than just letting the train come to an uncontrolled stop (ie stopping on an AWS magnet or the wheels locking up during leaf fall) 

 

Saying that one occasion I did hit the plunger (Even though the TPWS had tripped me) and was ready to leave the drivers seat was at sponson when I came round the curve at 75mph, flew past a red and saw the crossing barriers splayed across the track then spotted a motorbike and rider lay in the 4ft! Luckily I stopped before it 

[royaloak]

On 13/12/2019 at 11:50, big jim said:

the couple of occasions I’ve had an emergency stop I’ve not put the brake into emergency but used full service, that way I still had some control of the train If I needed to take the brake off rather than just letting the train come to an uncontrolled stop (ie stopping on an AWS magnet or the wheels locking up during leaf fall) 

 

Saying that one occasion I did hit the plunger (Even though the TPWS had tripped me) and was ready to leave the drivers seat was at sponson when I came round the curve at 75mph, flew past a red and saw the crossing barriers splayed across the track then spotted a motorbike and rider lay in the 4ft! Luckily I stopped before it 

On IETs the Emergency Brake is recoverable so we can still get a smooth stop.

[big jim]

14 minutes ago, royaloak said:

On IETs the Emergency Brake is recoverable so we can still get a smooth stop.

that’s good, nowt worse than accidentally pushing through to emergency and there being nothing you can do until you stop

 

i had a 150 once that Developed a fault en route between Rhyl and Chester that meant I had step 1 or emergency  as my only options, if you went into step 2 you just came to a grinding halt in emergency unable to recover it, Control said it would be ok to proceed from Chester to Cardiff in passenger service! 
 

needless to say it never got beyond Chester as the next driver refused to take it

Edited December 14, 2019 by big jim

[Gwiwer]

56 minutes ago, royaloak said:

On IETs the Emergency Brake is recoverable so we can still get a smooth stop.

Which is good because an emergency stop can cause the livestock to rise from their seats and pitch forward.  Ask me how I know.  In fairness the same is true of S-stock on the London Underground and the current generation Siemens units on the Melbourne suburban network in Australia which - in common with TfL - have a tripcock for added safety and which will trip and cause an emergency stop every time a signal is (authorised to be) passed at danger.

[big jim]

I’ve only had to pass 2 signals at danger on LUL lines and I had to advise the passengers over the PA that we would be coming to a halt, nothing to worry about etc

[Wickham Green]

On 14/12/2019 at 14:47, Gwiwer said:

Which is good because an emergency stop can cause the livestock to rise from their seats and pitch forward.  Ask me how I know.  In fairness the same is true of S-stock on the London Underground and the current generation Siemens units on the Melbourne suburban network in Australia which - in common with TfL - have a tripcock for added safety and which will trip and cause an emergency stop every time a signal is (authorised to be) passed at danger.

Trouble with modern rolling stock, all the passengers end up in the front car - not just the front of the car they thought they were in !

[Hobby]

I've been on several of the Voyagers when they've done an emergency stop (usually when standing) and haven't been thrown around, OK I may have had to grab something to steady myself but it was never severe enough for me to fall over.

[jim.snowdon]

All tame by comparison with what happens when all the anchors are dropped on a modern tram - full dynamic brake, full friction brake plus electromagnetic track brake. The braking rate is around 2.7m/s/s, roughly twice what a conventional train will achieve. Not much more than that and there becomes a distinct risk of causing greater injury to passengers than any injuries to whatever or whoever caused the hazard brake application in the first place.

 

Jim

[Wickham Green]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

I've been on several of the Voyagers when they've done an emergency stop (usually when standing) and haven't been thrown around, OK I may have had to grab something to steady myself but it was never severe enough for me to fall over.

Standing does seem to be the normal mode on a Voyager so there are always a few other bodies for cushioning !

[Gwiwer]

2 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

All tame by comparison with what happens when all the anchors are dropped on a modern tram - full dynamic brake, full friction brake plus electromagnetic track brake. The braking rate is around 2.7m/s/s, roughly twice what a conventional train will achieve. Not much more than that and there becomes a distinct risk of causing greater injury to passengers than any injuries to whatever or whoever caused the hazard brake application in the first place.

 

Jim

Indeed yes.  There is a tendency for the passengers especially the many typically standing on a tram to be ejected via the windscreen in the event of a track brake stop.  Melbourne trams play automated announcements advising folk to hold on and stay seated when possible in case of sudden stops.  Croydon trams leave it to chance.  

[jim.snowdon]

16 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Indeed yes.  There is a tendency for the passengers especially the many typically standing on a tram to be ejected via the windscreen in the event of a track brake stop.  Melbourne trams play automated announcements advising folk to hold on and stay seated when possible in case of sudden stops.  Croydon trams leave it to chance.  

In the case of Croydon's trams, it was not so much a case of leaving it to chance as confirming by test that the 2.7m/s/s (which is the same as the Koln trams from which they were derived) was tolerable and a realisation that however much you may tell people to hold on, any automated announcement simply becomes background noise that is ignored. Their only usefulness is then allowing the tram (or train operator) to say "we told you" in the event of a claim.

 

Jim

[big jim]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-50866707
 

 

[Gwiwer]

1 minute ago, big jim said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-50866707
 

 

Just one of many line blockages around the south-east today but the only one which should have been avoidable.  That the clean-up took as long as it did was caused by the need to assess the scene and determine if a crime had been committed (which apparently it has, subject to legal process), and then the complex task of extricating the car from beneath the train.  The car was removed by 09.30 this morning but the train took longer to recover and the railway, including the crossing itself, then had to be repaired and tested before service could be restored.  

 

At least no-one was hurt and the train somehow remained railed.  

[boxbrownie]

Sad news today.....

https://www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk/news/18121199.person-dies-train-collides-car-level-crossing-near-taunton/

[jim.snowdon]

Although I can't admit to having much sympathy for the car driver. The lesson is that level crossings demand respect, and if you don't respect them, they can kill you.

 

 The only person who has my sympathy is the train driver, as there is nothing he can do about it.

 

Jim

[boxbrownie]

On 25/12/2019 at 15:43, jim.snowdon said:

Although I can't admit to having much sympathy for the car driver. The lesson is that level crossings demand respect, and if you don't respect them, they can kill you.

 

Seriously? 
 

Might have been a momentary loss of concentration, a silly mistake or even a medical issue.

 

Lets hope the family have the same attitude as you this Christmas.........

Edited December 27, 2019 by boxbrownie

[Dunsignalling]

5 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Seriously? 
 

Might have been a momentary loss of concentration, a silly mistake or even a medical issue.

 

Lets hope the family have the same attitude as you this Christmas.........

None of which require a train on a level crossing to kill you, there are plenty of HGV's, roadside trees/ditches/walls and innumerable other things around that can do the job, albeit perhaps, less efficiently.

 

Whatever the circumstances, unless a L/C is faulty (and there has been no suggestion of that in this instance), being on one at the same time as a train is always the car driver's responsibility. To put your excuses/explanations a little more bluntly: bad driving, bad driving, or bad luck. However, you omitted to mention the other, far too common possibility; intentional self-destruction.   

 

I'm guessing the train driver and those responsible for clearing up afterwards won't have been feeling overly festive either.

 

John

[Colin_McLeod]

2 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Whatever the circumstances, unless a L/C is faulty (and there has been no suggestion of that in this instance), being on one at the same time as a train is always the car driver's responsibility.

 

Again without reference to this particular incident, it could be the train driver's fault.  An NIR train driver was found guilty of manslaughter in the 90s for failure to follow the rules at an AOCL.  

[royaloak]

Another one this morning at Paradise crossing near Truro, tis the season all right.

[royaloak]

9 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Again without reference to this particular incident, it could be the train driver's fault.  An NIR train driver was found guilty of manslaughter in the 90s for failure to follow the rules at an AOCL.  

An AOCL should operate automatically (hence the A) so if the train driver has failed to follow the rules the the crossing must have been faulty in the first place for the driver to need to follow the rules, so the point made by Dunsignalling still stands.

Edited December 27, 2019 by royaloak

[Dunsignalling]

15 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Again without reference to this particular incident, it could be the train driver's fault.  An NIR train driver was found guilty of manslaughter in the 90s for failure to follow the rules at an AOCL.  

An AOCL is an open crossing with warning lights but no barriers, and train approach speeds are restricted in accordance with the train driver's need to be able to stop short of an obstruction.

 

Bradford-on-Tone is an AHB crossing on the WR West-of-England main line with a ruling line-speed of (IIRC) 90mph. By the time the unfortunate train driver saw the car, it would be too late to do more than scrub a few mph off the impact speed. 

 

John

Edited December 27, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[royaloak]

25 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

Again without reference to this particular incident, it could be the train driver's fault.  An NIR train driver was found guilty of manslaughter in the 90s for failure to follow the rules at an AOCL.  

So basically its always the nasty railways fault for what happened to the poor innocent motorist, I will have to inform my work colleague who was driving the train of that fact!

 

Please explain the rules we are supposed to follow at a fully working AOCL please because I seem to have forgotten them!