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Level crossing stupidity...


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42 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

One of the biggest problems with people who switch to driving an automatic vehicle and 'get the pedals mixed up' (If you look at an auto boxed car, the huge pedal is for the brake, and the little pedal is for the power)  is because they seem to think they need to drive with the right foot on the gas pedal and the left foot on the brake.   This is a poor practice,  because having been taught  only to use the right foot for power or brakes, after 20 years + of driving a manual this technique is imprinted on their brain so in a high stress/panic situation where they are invariably driving in an unconscious /competent mode, the auto reflex of the imprinting takes over.

 

Because their left foot is already on the brake pedal, they right foot stamp on the gas pedal to try and stop and then we have lift off.

Never had a problem like that.

I learnt to drive on manual and found, when trying to drive other people's auto vehicles I did just that, but when I bought an auto car I very soon got used to the right foot only way.

The few times I had to make a smart stop, all that happened was that my right foot hit the brake as usual and my left foot tried to force a non existent clutch pedal through the floor!

Edited by melmerby
punctuation
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12 hours ago, JDW said:

Remember, not all auto boxes work like that anyway these days. Take Jaguar's rotary knob for example, it emerges from the dashboard when you switch on the ignition, you just turn it through P-R-N-D to whichever you wish to do.

 

And not all manual boxes have a obstructive gate to reverse, we are going around in circles here.....

..:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Are you sure that was the engineer? Most American locomotives are right hand drive. It still doesn't alter the fact that none of the three trucks should have crossed. 

 

He is on the right as the loco was going long hood first - i.e. backwards.

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18 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Never had a problem like that.

I learnt to drive on manual and found, when trying to drive other people's auto vehicles I did just that, but when I bought an auto car I very soon got used to the right foot only way.

The few times I had to make a smart stop, all that happened was that my right foot hit the brake as usual and my left foot tried to force a non existent clutch pedal through the floor!

Thank Keith, I appreciate a lot of people do not have an issue with it, but there are those that do.

 

To take an extreme example, I once had to assess a chap who'd had a traumatic amputation of his right leg.

 

We put him in an auto car with a left foot throttle (to the left of the brake pedal):  The idea being he was trained to drive using his left foot to mirror what his right foot had done.

 

To cut a long story short, it didn't work, despite a lot of training, after he had got comfortable in the car and was driving around, suddenly getting him to do an emergency stop had him stand on the accelerator with his left foot and his right stump trying to push down his non existent leg onto the brake pedal. too many years of right foot driving was imprinted on his brain

 

In the end we opted for a steering ball and a combined hand throttle/brake control to get him driving safely.

Edited by Happy Hippo
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That wedding photo has been around for some time. I seem to remember seeing it on RMWeb.

Back briefly to the latest US incident, surely a lot of the problem is the way Amer4ican towns have grown up with the railway embedded and many road junctions adjacent to the lines. Shades of comments about early tramways in the south Wales valleys that some houses could only be accessed by crossing a tramway.  

And as has been said, if you have to wait for a slow moving freight half a mile long to pass by you may well be tempted to risk getting across first.

So not much that can be done other than lost of rebuilding the railway routes outside the towns.

Jonathan

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Jonathan raises a very valid point about level crossings in the USA.

 

Watching some of the videos available on YouTube, I was surprised that there are occasions where a town can be cut in half by a train as it blocks multiple level crossings for some considerable time.

 

One train on a Jawtooth video, blocked a series of crossings for 25 minutes! 

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1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

And not all manual boxes have a obstructive gate to reverse, we are going around in circles here.....

..:rolleyes:

 

Too right. 

 

I was simply referring to the (possible!) original cause of the accident (and many similar ones involving autos and usually reverse). The car is parked, brake depressed, engine started, button depressed and gear leaver moved into R or D. At that point the foot is taken off the brake pedal and moved to the accelerator and the car starts to move. If it moves the wrong way the natural reaction for many people is to press the pedal down hard as that's how they stop the car. That's why the car shoots forward or backward as their foot isn't on the brake pedal and in the panic they don't think to move it.

 

Not everyone is a perfect driver like some of you obviously are, so these accidents will happen, no matter what the gate used, they will find a shortcut and use it, not to mention other distractions. On a manual there's a failsafe as your other foot is on the clutch and if you panic and press both pedals all you do is rev the nuts off the engine, on an auto there isn't, it just goes.

 

I'll leave it at that, if everyone did as some people say they should we wouldn't have any accidents in the first place, it's clear that many don't, though! Here's a classic example, though the driver took it to a whole new level!

 

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/05/elderly-driver-launches-their-cadillac-xts-onto-two-other-vehicles/

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When I was in Jasper there were several instances of access to the town centre from one side being effectively cut for long periods by parked freight trains, the only way around being several miles. From the mountain above you could see that the trains were somwetimes longer than the town.

 

Dave

Edited by Dave Hunt
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3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Are you sure that was the engineer? Most American locomotives are right hand drive. It still doesn't alter the fact that none of the three trucks should have crossed. 

 

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

He is on the right as the loco was going long hood first - i.e. backwards.

Beat me to it. The vast majority of US locos are "short hood forwards" these days. Therefore, the guy in the cab is the Engineer. Even if the pedantic claim he wasn't looking in the direction the loco moved, he has mirrors, which he could see his Switchman/Conductor in, and would also be in radio contact with him.

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3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

 

Beat me to it. The vast majority of US locos are "short hood forwards" these days. Therefore, the guy in the cab is the Engineer. Even if the pedantic claim he wasn't looking in the direction the loco moved, he has mirrors, which he could see his Switchman/Conductor in, and would also be in radio contact with him.

Most shunting moves are now controlled by a brakeman over the radio to the engineer, often riding on the front car or loco. This includes passenger trains doing back up moves. There was some sort of comms failure on a push pull train I was riding in Chicago and that went the last few miles into Union Station with the engineer in the loco riding backwards and a conductor calling the signal aspects for him in the corridor connection of the front coach.

 

Jamie

 

 

Edited by jamie92208
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3 hours ago, melmerby said:

Never had a problem like that.

I learnt to drive on manual and found, when trying to drive other people's auto vehicles I did just that, but when I bought an auto car I very soon got used to the right foot only way.

The few times I had to make a smart stop, all that happened was that my right foot hit the brake as usual and my left foot tried to force a non existent clutch pedal through the floor!

I've been driving automatics for around 20 years at least and haven't driven a manual all that time, although I drove manuals for years beforehand.

Don't ever remember trying to brake with the left foot. I suspect it only happens to people that have learnt (badly) on an automatic only.

My late father learnt to drive late in life on automatics and did use the left foot for braking method. If he stopped in a hurry, he pressed both pedals at once, causing the power to work against the braking - potentially very dangerous, as obviously lengthened the braking distance. Couldn't get him to change!

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1 hour ago, Hobby said:

Not everyone is a perfect driver like some of you obviously are,

 I'd alter the wording a bit, to 'careful' driver?

 

'Perfection' is inappropriate when considering driving.

 

I'd also point out that not all 'automatics' are in fact, 'automatic?'  There are 'automated' gearboxes these days as well. These manifest themselves in an entirely different way to a proper 'automatic' gearbox......in that, once 'drive' or whatever the factory likes to call it, is engaged......then to actually get the vehicle to move requires pressure on the gas pedal. [Otherwise the 'clutch' doesn't engage]. Essentially, an automated gearbox is a 'manual' gearbox, with the driver [and all their errors?] taken out of the equation, by the use of fancy electrics.  An Automatic box is very different to look at inside, and has something like a torque converter [or fluid flywheel if old enough?] between engine and the rest of the world.  

The difference being, to manoeuver an automated box, one's foot is going to have to be on the gas pedal...going to the brake to stop. when manoeuvring an automatic box, once the brake is released...and everything being equal, gradient-wise..the vehicle starts to move......thus is far easier to manoeuver, as ones foot is often on the 'correct' pedal for stopping.

This is all very noticeable in larger vehicles......

I haven't thrown pre-selector gearboxes into the mix, tho'.......

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Have a look at La Grange the line goes straight down the main street and most of the time it works well ,seeing an intermodal trundling past the shops is quite a sight.Views available on Railcam.

 

That's fascinating.  It's a shame there isnt anything like that in the UK nowadays, just odd bits of long-abandoned rail in the road.  It would be an interesting sight...  It does strike me as odd though in a country though where the car is king like the US that there's still places like this, where the railway line runs down main street.  It seems like the sort of thing that should have gone out with the Wild Wild West.

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40 minutes ago, Ben B said:

 

That's fascinating.  It's a shame there isnt anything like that in the UK nowadays, just odd bits of long-abandoned rail in the road.  It would be an interesting sight...  It does strike me as odd though in a country though where the car is king like the US that there's still places like this, where the railway line runs down main street.  It seems like the sort of thing that should have gone out with the Wild Wild West.

The town and railway co-exist like that because, when the westward bound railways were granted their line-of-route by the government, they were also given land on either side, specifically to build settlements. 

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1 hour ago, Ben B said:

 

That's fascinating.  It's a shame there isnt anything like that in the UK nowadays, just odd bits of long-abandoned rail in the road.  It would be an interesting sight...  It does strike me as odd though in a country though where the car is king like the US that there's still places like this, where the railway line runs down main street.  It seems like the sort of thing that should have gone out with the Wild Wild West.

The car's the king of personal transport but the USA is still a land where a great deal of goods are moved by rail. Considering the size of the country the economics of it probably stack up much better than in the UK.

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3 hours ago, Ben B said:

It does strike me as odd though in a country though where the car is king like the US that there's still places like this, where the railway line runs down main street.  It seems like the sort of thing that should have gone out with the Wild Wild West.

As Reorte says -  the car may be king for passenger transport, but US Railroads are heavily biased towards freight, totally different outlook to UK railways.

"That sort of thing" i.e. street running, came in with the Wild West, more or less. Unlike in the UK, where railways were built to serve towns & villages that had already existed for centurys (& often the railways couldn't get near the town due to landowner objections) in the USA the Railroads often came first; towns being built around them. Though not always the case, the typical US 'grid' system of town planning also makes it easier for trains running down the middle of Main Street.

 

There is great reward to be had in taking an interest in trains beyond Britain. ;)

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1 minute ago, Wickham Green too said:

Isn't it heresy to suggest such things in the 'UK Prototype Discussions' thread ??!?

Huh, a great many UK railway enthusiasts/modellers would consider it heresy to even think such a thing in the first place!!! :nono:  :rolleyes:  :sarcastichand:

 

Anyway it wasn't me who posted a US grade crossing incident in a UK Protoype section.... ;)

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28 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Huh, a great many UK railway enthusiasts/modellers would consider it heresy to even think such a thing in the first place!!! :nono:  :rolleyes:  :sarcastichand:

 

Anyway it wasn't me who posted a US grade crossing incident in a UK Protoype section.... ;)

 

Shhhhhhhh - I thought I'd got away with it amongst the gearbox waffle.

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7 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

 

There is great reward to be had in taking an interest in trains beyond Britain. ;)

Sometimes a lesson on how things can be done better, other things, not so.

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