Level crossing stupidity...

[F-UnitMad]

The tramway cuts through the middle of the island, crossing the roadway at either side, controlled by traffic lights.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

 

What has happened to the 3rd wagon in the train, it looks a little 'bent'

Looks like a case of middle-age spread

[pH]

7 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

In the US there are strict rules governing school buses that take precedence over other road users. Whether they apply to trains on street trackage I don't know.

You can’t pass a school bus in either direction if it has its warning lights flashing. Usually happens at stops where kids are getting on or off. 
 

However, you also can’t enter a railroad crossing if the warning lights are flashing and the warning bells ringing, which the caption says was the case here. (This isn’t street running - the train is coming off a dedicated right-of-way to cross a street.) Plus there are two flagmen out directing traffic.

 

I would say the bus driver is definitely in the wrong here.

[pH]

4 hours ago, 298 said:

 

In Yakima WA the YVT wasn't permitted to run past Davis High School on 6th Avenue during the start and end of the School day, so you could assume the general rule is a Railroad has to give way to a school....

I think that’s possibly just common sense, rather than law. We live beside a high school. The behaviour of drivers dropping kids off, and the kids walking from the cars and buses into the school is not of the most careful. Add a train, and it would be (more) chaotic.

[Michael Hodgson]

In the UK we have different tradition. 

 

There is no ban on passing buses when they stop - parents take small children to primary school by car while those big enough to travel on their own on a school bus would already have been taught to look before they cross the street.  The secondary schools I went to had fleets of buses turning up but they loaded/unloaded in the school yard.  And we do employ part-time "lollipop ladies" with hand-held stop signs to protect relevant pedestrian crossings at school start/end times 

 

If there was a school nearby, there would be a massive campaign against any level crossing that lacked barriers.  Pressure would be such that the railway really wouldn't have much option.  But then we have a long history of all railway lines requiring by law to be fenced, and level crossings which were fitted with massive wooden gates and manned.  The more recent types of crossing required a decision as to suitability on an individual crossings basis when they were modernised.  And the fencing situation got silly in some places with inner city kids maliciously breaking down fences daily and the railway having to repair them at their own expense to protect nasty little hoodlums. 

 

 

[PhilJ W]

3 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

What has happened to the 3rd wagon in the train, it looks a little 'bent'

Could be the effect of the long lens used by the photographer exaggerating the bow in the car. The contents of the cars appears to be scrap metal, perhaps the cars are scrap as well?

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, pH said:

You can’t pass a school bus in either direction if it has its warning lights flashing. Usually happens at stops where kids are getting on or off. 
 

However, you also can’t enter a railroad crossing if the warning lights are flashing and the warning bells ringing, which the caption says was the case here. (This isn’t street running - the train is coming off a dedicated right-of-way to cross a street.) Plus there are two flagmen out directing traffic.

 

I would say the bus driver is definitely in the wrong here.

But the bus is parallel to the tracks, as is the car alongside the bus. If it were a level crossing they would be at right angles or at least some angle to the tracks.

I can't see any crossing warning lights either.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/782211/

Edited September 17, 2021 by PhilJ W

[beast66606]

4 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

But the bus is parallel to the tracks, as is the car alongside the bus. If it were a level crossing they would be at right angles or at least some angle to the tracks.

I can't see any crossing warning lights either.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/782211/

 

https://goo.gl/maps/yf8XhHJoEC6MeKen9

[stewartingram]

If you watch the Ashland camera on Virtual Railfan, there is a guy positioned at the LC at school times. His job is to wave school buses across, giving them an uninterrupted crossing to assist traffic flow. If he is not there, they have to stop, open doors and listen as well as looking, before proceeding. I've seen it on other cameras as well, so must be a common rule.

 

 

[pH]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

 

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/782211/

 

1 hour ago, beast66606 said:

 

https://goo.gl/maps/yf8XhHJoEC6MeKen9

 

I think it’s actually at the crossing of Maiden Lane and 10th Street:
 

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/1007-1001+S+Maiden+Ln,+Joplin,+MO+64801,+USA/@37.0809578,-94.5312655,3a,75y,46.39h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1spLyqJe7qzRXY3b8-95hxNw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x87c87af821a1659f:0xf4db720f5329d377

 

(Apologies for the long link.)

 

though there seems to have been quite a bit of development between the Google Maps view being taken and the Railpictures shot. If it is there, then the bus is actually coming out of a ‘T’ junction and turning left on Maiden Lane to cross the track.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by pH

[melmerby]

I think it's the skew crossing Beast originally linked to but taken at an oblique angle with a long lens.

Note the kerb, drain, the marking and the left turn arrow, orange lane marker and white stop line:

 

(Image Lost)

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by melmerby

[pH]

30 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I think it's the skew crossing Beast originally linked to but taken at an oblique angle with a long lens.

Note the kerb, drain, the marking and the left turn arrow, orange lane marker and white stop line:

 

 

 OK, I agree. So it’s the crossing of Maiden Lane and Junge Boulevard. (The drain, red sidewalk marking and similar road markings appear at other railroad crossings on Maiden Lane.)

 

The bus and cars could still be turning left out of a crossing road, in this case Junge Boulevard.

 

(Incidentally, I get the Canadian version of Google Maps by default. If I approach that crossroads from the north on Streetview, the background to that picture is nothing but trees and bush!)

[Grovenor]

The long telephoto shots do make things tricky.

[SamThomas]

On 17/09/2021 at 06:08, pH said:

Some road users are obviously just blind:

 

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/782211/

 

That 3rd wagon (car) looks like a candidate for the scrapyard itself.

[pH]

4 hours ago, Grovenor said:

The long telephoto shots do make things tricky.

I presume you’re commenting on my post saying I see the background to that crossing as just trees and bush. (If you’re not, I apologize for misinterpreting.)

 

The difference made me do some comparisons, and it seems that there are various national versions of Streetview, and they aren’t updated at the same time. The appropriate national version is updated first to show changes ; other national versions at some later date. I had assumed there was a single, global version of Streetview.
 

Melmerby and others appear to have been using the US version of Streetview. As I said, I get the Canadian version as a default. The Canadian version is still showing that area as it was before all the new development in the background happened, when it was still ‘bare land’.

 

Just to check, I looked at an area close to our house, where there are two housing developments in progress. The Canadian version of Streetview shows these developments almost at their current state. The US version shows the buildings that were knocked down about 18 months ago for these developments to be started.

 

(Apologies for the OT post. I found that interesting - other opinions are available.)

[Jonboy]

That would explain why I couldn’t reconcile the image to street view….

[pH]

On 17/09/2021 at 07:36, johnofwessex said:

 

What has happened to the 3rd wagon in the train, it looks a little 'bent'

 

3 hours ago, SamThomas said:

That 3rd wagon (car) looks like a candidate for the scrapyard itself.

Gondolas and hoppers used to carry scrap are probably the scruffiest types of cars. There was an article in one of the magazines on how to model one, which included using a soldering iron on the inside of the body to create the bulges in the sides.

 

Here’s a video of a train of empties on the way for loading:

 

https://youtu.be/hYQXsqbHBII

 

[alastairq]

The bus may not have passengers on? [he ''Stop'' sign isn't extended].

 

From the photo itself, the comments section

 

Quote

Crossing signals were blinking and ringing, the big yellow and orange diesel had headlights blazing and horn honking, and two flagmen (second one in orange shirt is visible near bus mirror) were on the ground trying to direct traffic. It wasn't enough, as several cars and a school bus drove into the path of the train, which had 18 cars. Ain't nobody got time for that. You can see in the photo that the bus is already in the gauge and the diesel's plow is already in the roadway. Three cars stopped momentarily to allow the bus to swerve around 3070's plow. FYI - 3070 started life in October 1979 as Florida East Coast GP40-2 420.

P

 

[pH]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

[The ''Stop'' sign isn't extended]

 

That sign is only extended by the driver at stops, to prevent other drivers passing the bus while kids are getting on or off. The bus does not run with that sign extended.

 

 

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

The bus may not have passengers on?

 

That still doesn't let the driver run through crossing lights and bells, plus flagmen trying to protect the crossing.

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, pH said:

 

Gondolas and hoppers used to carry scrap are probably the scruffiest types of cars. There was an article in one of the magazines on how to model one, which included using a soldering iron on the inside of the body to create the bulges in the sides.

 

Here’s a video of a train of empties on the way for loading:

 

https://youtu.be/hYQXsqbHBII

 

When they started using old steel bodied coal wagons for carrying scrap metal several were said to have disappeared into certain steelworks never to be seen again.

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

When they started using old steel bodied coal wagons for carrying scrap metal several were said to have disappeared into certain steelworks never to be seen again.

Free delivery of several tons of steel, what's not to like?

[ejstubbs]

On 17/09/2021 at 13:57, melmerby said:

Apparently the driver turned across the tracks with the lights against him.

 

If this had happened in Edinburgh it would have been the tram's fault.

 

Sincerely hope the young lassie (and her wain) recover from the injuries.

[Hobby]

"What has happened to the 3rd wagon in the train, it looks a little 'bent'"

 

Worn out, that's all, the first looks the same, but not quite as bad... If you were carrying steel scrap around all day I'm sure you'd bend in the middle after a while as well!

Edited September 19, 2021 by Hobby

[Fat Controller]

10 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Free delivery of several tons of steel, what's not to like?

I once had the dream vacation job with British Steel; physically checking the identities of BR wagons on site, against the Telex saying what we should have had (this was before TOPS ). Inevitably, there'd be a couple missing; the electro-magnets in the scrap bay would have lifted the body off the floor. The bodies would go straight into the melting pot; the chassis would join the internal user fleet. Hopefully, someone would have kept the plate.

[ruggedpeak]

Following the Ely crossing collision recently, someone wrote to the local paper, highlighting why children and politicians should not be allowed near railways without suitable supervision..........scroll down for a couple of classic pics

 

https://www.elystandard.co.uk/news/rail-crossing-warnings-in-cmbridgeshire-8386478