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Level crossing stupidity...


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I am a cyclist, have been for over 60 years, and I am afraid that I have to agree about bad behaviour by some cyclists - and often not wearing helmets.

But it is not helped by the Powys habit of creating cycle lanes by simply putting up signs saying that the pavement is for both pedestrians and cyclists. And then at the end of the "cycle lane" you are dumped in a major road at a major junction. So do you stay on the pavement or risk getting mown down by the first driver along?

I also remember all too clearly when a government minister opened his car door and knocked down a cyclist who was passing on a cycle lane - and as far as I can remember got away with it.

Those electric scooters are interesting? Are they road vehicles, ie should they be on the road? 

And around here we have a large number of invalid vehicles, some rather powerful and fast. I believe that over a certain rating they are supposed to have licence plates etc, but does that restrict them to the roads?

To be fair, a great many cyclists are well behaved on shared spaces such as the Severn Way along the old canal. Mind you, my view along there is that the traffic priority is 1: dogs, 2: cyclists, 3: pedestrians!

When I was young in Cardiff it was normal in our area to take the cycling proficiency test. Does that still exists? I think the school insisted on it if you wanted to ride a bike to school. Interestingly my wife, brought up in Surrey, never came across it. Passing the test will not make you a good or safe cyclist but it may possibly make you more aware of the dangers and what you should be doing - such as obeying the Highway Code.

But as we only have two level crossings around here on public roads (Abermule and Caersws) and I never cycle on the latter stretch of road and rarely for former, I don't see much bad behaviour by cyclists at level crossings, which I seem to remember is where we started.

Jonathan

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I think we're all agreed everyone - car drivers - van drivers/HGV drivers and all subsets of internal combustion and electric propulsion,  cyclists, pedestrians, horse riders, e scooter riders - should obey traffic signals and road signs.  

 

The new hierarchy of road users and responsibility, based on vulnerability, being enshrined in the highway code therefore seems eminently sensible and reasonable.  It will soon be law.

 

This may be of interest.

 

https://davies-group.com/knowledge/new-version-of-highway-code-with-greater-protection-reassurance-for-vulnerable-road-users-is-to-be-published-in-2022/

 

Keep mellow all.

 

Best regards

 

Matt W

Edited by D826
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5 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Those electric scooters are interesting? Are they road vehicles, ie should they be on the road? 

 

And around here we have a large number of invalid vehicles, some rather powerful and fast. I believe that over a certain rating they are supposed to have licence plates etc, but does that restrict them to the roads?

 

1. Yes they are classed as road vehicles and they should be on the road. Trouble is they are not currently legal on the road unless used in one of the "test schemes" that are happening around the country. Birmingham is one of the places and, as a pedestrian in the centre, I find their use (misuse is probably a better word) lethal and it concerns me if they are legalised. If you see any in your local area (Newtown) it's almost guaranteed they are being ridden illegally and the local police should be impounding them (they are round here but only haphazardly).

 

2. there are two types of mobility scooters, the small ones, limited to 4mph and should only be used on the pavement and the larger ones which are road legal, have a max speed (I think) of 8mph and which can be used on pavements but only at 4mph. The latter is not adhered to a great deal!). The larger ones should be licensed (free) and should be insured.

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There are several electric scooters around here. I think for a while there was a shop selling them, along with other electric vehicles. I doubt it their riders have ever even considered that they might not be legal.

BTW once long ago I was stopped by a police car when on my bike because my rear light had gone out. Dealing with cycles without lights would be a full time job for the police these days.

Jonathan

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1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

...... When I was young in Cardiff it was normal in our area to take the cycling proficiency test. Does that still exists? I think the school insisted on it if you wanted to ride a bike to school. Interestingly my wife, brought up in Surrey, never came across it.  ......

Yep - passed my Cycling Proficiency Test several decades ago in Kent ( I think we were still Kent then ! ).

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14 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yep - passed my Cycling Proficiency Test several decades ago in Kent ( I think we were still Kent then ! ).

The local primary school has a cycling proficiency class, we often drive past the school when the little’uns are wobbling around on the small road looking wobbly, luckily our whole area has a 20 mph limit which is thankfully is mostly adhered to by locals.

 

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21 hours ago, newbryford said:

Is this thread about level crossings or cyclists?

 

Cyclists, because clearly it's National Have a go at Cyclists Day (or is that just every day ?)

 

21 hours ago, Titan said:

o as I walked to work I counted how many cyclists, given the opportunity to do so would break the highway code.  It was 13 out of fifteen.

 

Did you also count how many motorists who, on seeing traffic lights change from green to amber, speed up to get through ASAP, whether or not they are still amber or red when they actually pass them, instead of stop ? Because that is something I see every time I'm out. 

 

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11 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Cyclists, because clearly it's National Have a go at Cyclists Day (or is that just every day ?)

 

 

Did you also count how many motorists who, on seeing traffic lights change from green to amber, speed up to get through ASAP, whether or not they are still amber or red when they actually pass them, instead of stop ? Because that is something I see every time I'm out. 

 

 

The majority of motorists stop. The majority of cyclists don't.  Whilst you may often see motorists do that, they are vastly outnumbered by the cyclists that do, and I found that out by observing both.  A motorist will hardly ever go through a red light that has not recently changed to red, whereas many cyclists will go through them no matter how long they have been red, and try to negotiate their way through any conflicting traffic or pedestrians.

Edited by Titan
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8 minutes ago, Titan said:

The majority of cyclists don't. 

 

I can only say that is in no way my experience, either as a cyclist, motorist or pedestrian. And as a cyclist, IMHO going through a red light is utter madness, because there is every chance of something much bigger and more solid than you coming through the junction ! 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

Trouble is they are not currently legal on the road unless used in one of the "test schemes" that are happening around the country. Birmingham is one of the places and, as a pedestrian in the centre, I find their use (misuse is probably a better word) lethal and it concerns me if they are legalised. If you see any in your local area (Newtown) it's almost guaranteed they are being ridden illegally and the local police should be impounding them (they are round here but only haphazardly)

 

 

We've got these voi scooters on trial  in the Bristol area, and they're an absolute nightmare,  most of them make (bad) cyclists look like angels. They are supposed to be only ridden by licence holders and obey the highway code, but they just shoot across pavements/roads and out of junctions and lights at will, seemingly without a care about other road users, often ridden  by young teenagers/children and very often two or even three up. Or failing that someone  with ear pods in or a drunk coming back from the pub! with no idea of their surroundings. I've had a couple of close shaves with them and I'm sure the motorist will get the blame when the Inevitable happens.

But if the government are making money then I'm sure they'll be legalised and coming to an area near you all soon - be afraid!

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I think that summarizes the general feeling in all the places I've seen reports from in the press. But I suspect that also virtually guarantees the things will become legal (with the inevitable "extra safeguards" to try to appease those who feel like us!). I'm just glad than in less than two years i won't need to visit the centre of Brum ever again! Motorists are the least of my worries, the pavements and road junctions are so much more dangerous, especially if the cyclist/moped rider/scooter rider has one of those "Just Eat" or "Deliveroo" boxes on their back!

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1 hour ago, caradoc said:

And as a cyclist, IMHO going through a red light is utter madness, because there is every chance of something much bigger and more solid than you coming through the junction ! 

I can still remember one particular near-miss, even though it was nearly 20 years ago - I was walking to university, and at the bottom of the fairly steep hill leading to our halls was a T-junction with traffic lights, and opposite a footpath leading into the common. The cyclist came down the hill, through the red lights, and missed the bus going across the bottom (which had perfectly legally gone though a green) by a matter of inches...

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The "inadequate cycle lane" syndrome is all too common on this side of the North Sea.  It is but a small instance of the British unwillingness to make proper investment in a desirable outcome,  to fudge the issue,  pretend that the job has been done,  and thereby ensure that it will receive no further attention for the foreseeable future.

 

I am a very occasional cyclist,  and a frequent motorist and pedestrian.  I don't think that merely painting a line on a narrow road or signposting a footpath as provision for cyclists and pedestrians even begins to be an adequate provision,  despite claims by local authorities and by national government for the enormous mileage of cycleway which they have public-spiritedly and environmentally-consciously provided.   

 

The line  on the road merely creates a false sense of security and thereby a hazard for the cyclist:  I have no desire to injure or kill the user of such a cycleway,  but many such lanes merely increase the probability that such events will happen.  The mixed-use pavement has the same effect for pedestrians:  too many arrogant cyclists treat it as a dedicated lane for their own speedy use.  Indeed too many cyclists already do just that on pavements from which they are expressly prohibited.

 

 

auldreekie

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5 hours ago, Hobby said:

Worth remembering that green traffic lights only mean you can go on if the way is clear (which rather covers the red jumpers!)...

Yes, but it's hardly practical to 'stop and proceed' on every green light you come to.

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25 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Yes, but it's hardly practical to 'stop and proceed' on every green light you come to.

 

 

26 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Yes, but it's hardly practical to 'stop and proceed' on every green light you come to.

I'm pretty certain the OP meant the word "go" as in "proceed", but in true RMW style "picked up" on it.

 

An illuminated green traffic light controlling your direction of traffic flow means that you may "proceed if safe to do so but be prepared to stop".

 

I eagerly await being "picked up".

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53 minutes ago, auldreekie said:

The "inadequate cycle lane" syndrome is all too common on this side of the North Sea.  It is but a small instance of the British unwillingness to make proper investment in a desirable outcome,  to fudge the issue,  pretend that the job has been done,  and thereby ensure that it will receive no further attention for the foreseeable future.

 

I am a very occasional cyclist,  and a frequent motorist and pedestrian.  I don't think that merely painting a line on a narrow road or signposting a footpath as provision for cyclists and pedestrians even begins to be an adequate provision,  despite claims by local authorities and by national government for the enormous mileage of cycleway which they have public-spiritedly and environmentally-consciously provided.   

 

The line  on the road merely creates a false sense of security and thereby a hazard for the cyclist:  I have no desire to injure or kill the user of such a cycleway,  but many such lanes merely increase the probability that such events will happen. 

 

 

I am totally in agreement with this.  Many of the local cycle lanes are far too narrow and encourage motorists to pass way closer than they might have done otherwise because the white line implies that is all the space the bike requires, leading to incidents like this:

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3271479/sainsburys-lorry-cyclist-near-miss-video/

 

At first the lorry drivers actions were defended on the grounds that he did not intrude on the designated cycle lane...

 

However I think this perhaps is more suitable (and may have already appeared in) the driving standards thread.

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While no one wants to see accidents

or near misses at level crossings, this is

one time when I hope someone posts

one soon, so that this thread gets

back on topic 

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I thought I would wait at this level crossing to see if I could catch a cyclist going through a red before the barriers come down.

 

20211019_084522.jpg.f80cf693d66da14ce1fad9947b115da0.jpg

 

I waited bl00dy ages and not only did no trains come but I didn't see a single cyclist!

 

20211019_084559.jpg.b41e9d4a93a24b70413eec41b82857de.jpg

 

 

Kev.

(...who has been somewhere north of Marseilles all this week.)

 

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