Level crossing stupidity...

[eastglosmog]

On 03/01/2022 at 10:53, Jonboy said:

Funny isn’t it, when the father in law was on crutches the last thing he wanted was the extra distance from those ramps (now in a wheelchair it’s more useful) even the obvious methods of disabled access can inconvenience some…

Funny you should mention that, the only complaint in this town about the Cotswold line being redoubled was from a disabled passenger who found the new ramped bridge (see below) far to tiring to negotiate and wanted the old barrow crossing that used to exist before the line was singled to be reinstated.

 

Incidentally, I think the new bridge looks pretty good.  I believe it was pretty expensive, something like £2.5M some 10 years ago.

Edited August 26, 2022 by eastglosmog
Restore photo

[Robert Shrives]

9 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

Funny you should mention that, the only complaint in this town about the Cotswold line being redoubled was from a disabled passenger who found the new ramped bridge (see below) far to tiring to negotiate and wanted the old barrow crossing that used to exist before the line was singled to be reinstated.

Incidentally, I think the new bridge looks pretty good.  I believe it was pretty expensive, something like £2.5M some 10 years ago.

At least the bridge has been painted to fit in instead of a country green colour seen on many such structures. Also you cannot get stuck in a lift/ moving urinal facility as seen at other stations on the network. 

[martin_wynne]

52 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

Whatever the original temporary closure order was for, the current one is for

 

My point is that there isn't a current one. The notice clearly states that the original order has been extended in time:

 

Notice is hereby given that the Order made ... ... on the 28th day of January2019 ... ...  has been continued in force ...

 

The original order was to enable an inspection to be carried out, and clearly stated that it would terminate when that work was complete. Extending the time limit is therefore meaningless.

 

To be legal, the present closure needs a new order, not a continuation of the old one.

 

In the grand scheme of things it's hardly important, and no-one is going to be daft enough to enforce their current legal right to walk straight across the platforms and the tracks, especially when there is a convenient diversion available. But public rights of way are under constant pressure to be closed off or diverted - if you value them it's important to insist on the proper legal procedures and accountability being followed.

 

Martin.

Edited January 3, 2022 by martin_wynne
typo

[martin_wynne]

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

I thought you were joking hence my slightly tongue in cheek reply, but it seems not, look at the cost of keeping a helicopter on permanent standby, also bear in mind how you'd get a wheelchair into one (!), then there's the preparation of safe places for it to land on either side of the track... I could go on! Think you'll find a bridge is more cost effective!!  

 

I doubt a landing pad for a small helicopter would need more space than those massive ramps. More significantly, unlike the ramps, the pad doesn't need to be alongside the track. It could be some way back from the crossing if needs be. Helicopters are used for all sorts of tasks, fitting some sort of lift access for a wheelchair doesn't sound insurmountable. Also bear in mind that the pilot is there to assist, the user is not required to work the crossing alone and unaided. If the weather is bad enough to ground a helicopter, I doubt many wheelchair users would be out in it.

 

Martin.

[SHMD]

Didn't BR (Network Rail or who-ever) used to have a deal with local taxi firms to move people requiring assistance from one platform to the other if no "ramped access" was available?

 

 

Kev.

 

[martin_wynne]

.

With a helicopter for disabled users, a flat foot crossing could be replaced with a lightweight stepped footbridge, 3D-printed on site from a rail-mounted 3D printer:

 

 

A rail-mounted 3D printer train would no doubt be very useful for other tasks too, such as OLE masts.

 

Martin.

[stewartingram]

 A helicopter doesn't just need a landing pad to park on. It needs (air) space to enable a safe landing, clear of any obstructions (think trees, masts, cables on poles as well as buildings). Also nowhere that has vehicles parked, or pedestrians .

Our local GP is often visited by the local Air Ambulance. Though it could get nearer if the above 'landing pad' criteria was used, it never does. The further away park/play area is used. But the number of times it has to circle before landing has to be seen to be believed as it has to wait for the area to be clear of pedestrians. dog walkers, kids playing, etc. I guess that if a regular 'pad' was to be used, planning regs might well come into force as well. 

[martin_wynne]

7 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

 A helicopter doesn't just need a landing pad to park on. It needs (air) space to enable a safe landing, clear of any obstructions (think trees, masts, cables on poles as well as buildings). Also nowhere that has vehicles parked, or pedestrians .

Our local GP is often visited by the local Air Ambulance. Though it could get nearer if the above 'landing pad' criteria was used, it never does. The further away park/play area is used. But the number of times it has to circle before landing has to be seen to be believed as it has to wait for the area to be clear of pedestrians. dog walkers, kids playing, etc. I guess that if a regular 'pad' was to be used, planning regs might well come into force as well. 

 

A pad area doesn't need to be close to the track. A site can be chosen clear of obstructions. Or obstructions can be removed. It can be fenced to prevent public access until the helicopter arrives, which unlocks the gate.

 

What happened to the "can-do" attitude we used to have? I'm glad I didn't suggest building a Forth Bridge on RMweb.

 

Martin.

[big jim]

1 minute ago, martin_wynne said:

 

A pad area doesn't need to be close to the track. A site can be chosen clear of obstructions. Or obstructions can be removed. It can be fenced to prevent public access until the helicopter arrives, which unlocks the gate.

 

What happened to the "can-do" attitude we used to have? I'm glad I didn't suggest building a Forth Bridge on RMweb.

 

Martin.

Its not so much the lack of ‘can do’ attitude I’m seeing from others but I think others like myself can’t see your idea ever getting off the ground 

 

(see what I did there!) 

 

 

 

 

 

[alastairq]

The trebuchet idea would be cheaper, and all-weather too.

It may take some effort to find the effective range, etc, however.

 

The idea that people with disabilities will stay away during foul weather is bound to be proved incorrect.....the very first time the helicopter is grounded.

Maybe local children could be employed to operate a sedan-chair service? Got to be more appealing than sending them up chimneys?

[alastairq]

Drones?

 

If Amazon can do it, why not Network Rail?

 

The problem I would fear with wheelchair user ramps would be.......coming down the other side?

Bring a whole new interpretation to ''Zoom?''

 

Do modern electric boogies have dynamic brakes?

[Nick C]

This might be a slightly more sensible idea than a helicopter...

 

[SHMD]

Looks like a night time urinal to me!

 

...but it also looks a zillion times better than those massive all-user-inclusive ramp/stair bridges combo things.

 

 

Kev.

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

Its not so much the lack of ‘can do’ attitude I’m seeing from others but I think others like myself can’t see your idea ever getting off the ground

 

Hi Jim,

 

Here's 2.4 million pounds for a bridge. If you can come up with a cheaper solution, you can keep the difference.

 

How much is a helicopter? How much is a pilot's licence?

 

Martin.

[JDW]

6 hours ago, Nick C said:

Just look at the PRM requirements for rail replacement buses for another example - according to discussions elsewhere on the Internet, the fact that it's a blanket 'all vehicles must comply' means that coaches, with toilets, can't be used - making it much more difficult for people with, for example, Chron's disease (not sure of the spelling...), to travel.

 

With apologies for going way off topic, for accuracy it's more the fact that most coaches are not wheelchair accessible plus the reqirement now that every rail replacement bus/coach must be "accessible" that means operators will send out accessible low floor buses instead. More and more coaches are gradually being retrofitted, to allow their use on such work, at a cost of around £20,000 to £30,000 per coach, and more and more new coaches  are being specified with lifts to allow their use. Even though the drivers, operators, and even those on the 'rail' end of rail replacement understand that in many locations, there isn't the space to actually deploy said lift.

 

(For wheelchair users, the experience of being hoisted up to head height can also be somewhat nerve-wracking if its an external (side-mounted) lift, as well as a cause of embarrassment as they are seen as 'casuing a fuss' or 'holding up the bus'. The same as with making crossings compatible, doing something that suits one person often makes it less good for someone else).

[big jim]

34 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Jim,

 

Here's 2.4 million pounds for a bridge. If you can come up with a cheaper solution, you can keep the difference.

 

How much is a helicopter? How much is a pilot's licence?

 

Martin.

And how much are the multiple landing pads, how much for the pathways from the pads to the crossings, how much is the fuel the list could go on 

Assuming the 2.4 million is for a bridge in a single location and a line needed 10 bridges installing to replace crossings in a 20 mile stretch, so 24 million in total, you could employ a number of people on call in shifts 24/7 365 days a year in a central location to go to crossings as and when required in a disabled compliant vehicle to either take them over in it or assist in their passage for a lot less than 24 million, or even 2.4 million for a number of years 

 

for 24 million id go down on my pushbike  myself and give them a Backie over the tracks! 
 

Joking apart I don’t know whether this bridge that was unveiled back in July could be adapted for ramps, not read the article but remember it being unveiled 

 

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/research-development-and-technology/research-and-development-programme/innovative-modular-footbridge-design/

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by big jim

[jamie92208]

40 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Jim,

 

Here's 2.4 million pounds for a bridge. If you can come up with a cheaper solution, you can keep the difference.

 

How much is a helicopter? How much is a pilot's licence?

 

Martin.

The West ayorks Police Helicopter cost £800 an hour 20 years ago.

 

Jamie

[Hobby]

Tell you what Martin, you show me a small helicopter that will easily take a wheelchair or electric mobility scooter with pricing on running costs (maintenance, pilot fees, spare in case it breaks down , I could go on) and I'll take your suggestion seriously. 

 

BTW you'd also have to buy the land for the pads as most places don't have suitable areas next to the crossing which is where they are needed.

 

I suspect a lift would work out cheaper but then you have the issue of maintenance and vandalism. Bear in mind that most bridges don't actually need ramps and so the cost of installing them is much lower...

[martin_wynne]

18 minutes ago, Hobby said:

you show me a small helicopter that will easily take a wheelchair or electric mobility scooter with pricing

 

Damn. Network Rail have just snapped up this one: http://www.helx.co.uk/g-done

 

 

[Grovenor]

3 hours ago, big jim said:

Joking apart I don’t know whether this bridge that was unveiled back in July could be adapted for ramps, not read the article but remember it being unveiled 

 

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/industry-and-commercial/research-development-and-technology/research-and-development-programme/innovative-modular-footbridge-design/

What it says in the article.

Quote

Work is planned to develop a ramped version of the bridge and we will listen to the views of stakeholders and the community as we continue to work on the design. 

 

[96701]

5 hours ago, Grovenor said:

What it says in the article.

 

This will definitely save money against Martin's helicopter (which cannot be used if the front is frosty.

[kevinlms]

21 hours ago, Hobby said:

Incidentally here's what's involved when a flat crossing (and in this case a footbridge) is replaced with a new ramped and stepped footbridge. The one near Mexborough, Ferryboat Lane crossing... It also shows just how big a structure the new bridge is...

 

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/east-coast/ferryboat-lane-footbridge-reconstruction/#:~:text=The new footbridge will have,Council at Network Rail's request.

 

In particular you should read this document:

 

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/ferryboat-lane-footbridge-reconstruction/Ferryboat Lane footbridge reconstruction/nr07 ferryboat lane twao - consultation report - march 2020.pdf

 

 

 

Any modeller, who wants to reduce the gradient on his new layout, needs to see this photo!

 

Of course the answer usually offered is to split the grade, by having one track rise and the other fall. This is a variant.

[corneliuslundie]

You forgot the £5 million for consultants, surveys, consultations, approvals etc. The helicopter is the cheap bit.

Bring back the Southern's concrete footbridges! I wonder how much they would cost in current prices.

Re that prefabricated Italian device, I wondered how long it would last in some areas of the UK? Are vandals better behaved in Italy?

Jonathan

[Dunsignalling]

16 hours ago, SHMD said:

Didn't BR (Network Rail or who-ever) used to have a deal with local taxi firms to move people requiring assistance from one platform to the other if no "ramped access" was available?

 

 

Kev.

 

Depended on the amount of inconvenience involved. There's normally ramped access to both sides of any two-platform station but in some places, getting from one side to the other can be awkward or involve a particularly long and circuitous route. That's when taxis came into the equation.

 

My local station only got a new conventional footbridge when it was replaced because there is ramped access to both platforms. Exit from one side of the station, public highway under the line and up the station car park access road to the ramp serving the other side (or vice versa).  My estimate of the distance is about 250 yards.

 

John

[corneliuslundie]

How  does that distance compare with a ramped footbridge?

Jonathan