Level crossing stupidity...

[Porkscratching]

The countdown thing is certainly more satisfactory from a driver's point of view, it's nice to have some idea how long before the dammed lights are going to change !

[Reorte]

5 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

Traditionally pelican crossings had the lights perpendicular to the road, usually at or above head height, on the opposite side of the road so they could clearly be seen by pedestrians. Modern crossings have the button and the light in a combined box around waist height, with the lights parallel to the road. Consequently they are very difficult for a peddestrian to see (indeed the motorist may be able to see them more easily than the pedestrian!

IIRC the justification for the current ones (which I dislike for the same reason you do, and they take your attention even further from the road) is that pelican crossings (which are the older ones, I think the new ones you describe are puffins) were bizarrely regarded as being harder to see. There's possibly some merit in the puffins for people with bad eyesight, although you had the beeps for that. One step forward and two back IMO; personally speaking I'd have thought it better to keep the pelican crossing backed up with a small nearside repeater.

[Hobby]

Try sitting in a wheelchair one row back and trying to read a light on the other side of the road. The waist level ones are easier to use for wheelchair/mobility scooter users.

 

The countdown ones are common in Germany, certainly in the big cities. Only trouble is they encourage last minute rushes or people with limited mobility starting to rush when when they are part way across which they shouldn't have to.

 

 

Re the differences and why some don't have a flashing green man see this link. Also I suspect that if you tried the defence of "I don't have to obey pedestrian lights" as a defence they'd chuck the case out, the HC is clear enough, don't cross on red, cross on green and don't start to cross on flashing green. Couldn't be clearer...

 

https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/motoring/cars/enjoying/the-rights-you-didnt-know-pedestrians-have

[Wickham Green]

The crossing at the top of my road is so dammed slow that I always wait for a gap in the traffic as I used to before it was installed. The only time I've had to press the button and wait was when I've had heavy luggage or one time when a couple of horse riders wished to cross and couldn't reach the button without dismounting !

[Reorte]

40 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Try sitting in a wheelchair one row back and trying to read a light on the other side of the road. The waist level ones are easier to use for wheelchair/mobility scooter users.

 

Better for some, worse for more (anyway one row back suggests other people who'll move when it's clear). It doesn't sound like a net improvement, which is why I suggested a small repeater as an answer to both if there are enough people who have trouble with pelican crossings.

 

Quote

Re the differences and why some don't have a flashing green man see this link. Also I suspect that if you tried the defence of "I don't have to obey pedestrian lights" as a defence they'd chuck the case out, the HC is clear enough, don't cross on red, cross on green and don't start to cross on flashing green. Couldn't be clearer...

 

The HC is guidance to best practice, not law (it inevitably reflects the law in many cases, which is when it uses the word "must" instead of "should"). I'm not sure under what circumstances crossing on the red man would end up in court with the person crossing as the defendant anyway. It might be used by a car driver as part of the defence if they hit someone crossing on a red though (although it would probably be a minor factor because you've still got to watch out for pedestrians). Crossing on a red man isn't illegal, driving through the red light is, whether it's for a pedestrian crossing or any other traffic lights.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Reorte

[TheQ]

I like this idea, though since most councils can't be bothered to keep normal white markings in good condition it wouldn't last.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/brilliant-10-year-old-devises-3d-crosswalk-to-stop-speeding-cars/ar-AAAOt3W?ocid=ientp

16 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Better for some, worse for more (anyway one row back suggests other people who'll move when it's clear). It doesn't sound like a net improvement, which is why I suggested a small repeater as an answer to both if there are enough people who have trouble with pelican crossings.

 

 

The HC is guidance to best practice, not law (it inevitably reflects the law in many cases, which is when it uses the word "must" instead of "should"). I'm not sure under what circumstances crossing on the red man would end up in court with the person crossing as the defendant anyway. It might be used by a car driver as part of the defence if they hit someone crossing on a red though (although it would probably be a minor factor because you've still got to watch out for pedestrians). Crossing on a red man isn't illegal, driving through the red light is, whether it's for a pedestrian crossing or any other traffic lights.

As far as I can see in the HC there is no such thing as a cycle zebra crossing (with belisha beacons) but Norwich council is fitting them anyway.. So if a cyclist rides straight out and has an accident with a car..who's responsible?

Edited May 3, 2019 by TheQ

[Reorte]

7 minutes ago, TheQ said:

I like this idea, though since most councils can't be bothered to keep normal white markings in good condition it wouldn't last.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/brilliant-10-year-old-devises-3d-crosswalk-to-stop-speeding-cars/ar-AAAOt3W?ocid=ientp

 

I don't like the idea of that at all. For those unfamiliar with it it'll cause unnecessary stopping (perhaps suddenly, which is dangerous in its own right). Once people are used to it they won't pay it any more attention that any other zebra crossing and it's a bad idea overall to make something look like a hazard that isn't, it could lead to genuine hazards not being paid proper attention to. I've also seen suggestions of using traffic lights to get people to slow down, which I also don't like the sound of because it'll lessen the message that lights go red for a very sound reason.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Reorte

[Richard E]

7 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

 I've also seen suggestions of using traffic lights to get people to slow down, which I also don't like the sound of because it'll lessen the message that lights go red for a very sound reason.

The local authorities round here have done that for years, a  couple of sets of lights will change just to slow traffic down. It seems as if the road sensors are set up to time traffic over them to sense the speed. If it is close to or over the limit the lights change to red. If well below the limit only traffic on waiting at the lights changes them. It's very noticeable on one busway in particular in my area.

[lmsforever]

 Had a holiday in Northern Spain good few years ago and found on the approach to many towns a set of traffic lights that changed to red if they sensed to higher a speed .An excellent idea and it worked as people went at speed limit in towns.Not sure that it would work here as we have so many lights anyway ,for instance our local council have so many in Aylesbury that progress is always stop start every day.  To many drivers in the UK are of the I am so busy generation and will not stop for anyone ,overtaking in dangerous places even in towns so education is difficult. Perhaps graphic illustrations of what can happen to you if you race a train to a crossing but many will say its to frightening to show and could give people nightmares ,what a shame!

[PaulCheffus]

1 hour ago, lmsforever said:

Perhaps graphic illustrations of what can happen to you if you race a train to a crossing but many will say its to frightening to show and could give people nightmares ,what a shame!

Hi

 

I think the people this would be targeted at wouldn't give a damn and it wouldn't make any difference. 

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[lmsforever]

Totaly     these people are brain dead already

[newbryford]

7 hours ago, lmsforever said:

 Had a holiday in Northern Spain good few years ago and found on the approach to many towns a set of traffic lights that changed to red if they sensed to higher a speed .An excellent idea and it worked as people went at speed limit in towns.

 

There are many similar sets along The Algarve in Portugal. They are set very, very near the 50kph limit. 

Speed and they will turn to red and slow you down.. Don't speed, they won't change (unless a ped presses the button)

 

Similarly, there is very little speeding in towns, and along the N125, but on the parallel A22, that's a different matter, but the automatic tolls with ANPR are slowly putting a stop to that.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

 

[railsquid]

18 hours ago, lmsforever said:

We only have one crossing in the area its on the Aylesbury Risboro line and seems to be used properly

 

Is this the one you mean (at the Risboro end)?

 

https://goo.gl/maps/WXNYdMHERQLcjZX37

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, railsquid said:

 

Is this the one you mean (at the Risboro end)?

 

https://goo.gl/maps/WXNYdMHERQLcjZX37

 

 

No, that looks like a foot path.

The proper LC is at Marsh Lane and Bishopstone.

As it is very close to the three way road junction all traffic has to approach the crossing fairly slowly.

Bernard 

[lmsforever]

5 hours ago, railsquid said:

 

Is this the one you mean (at the Risboro end)?

 

https://goo.gl/maps/WXNYdMHERQLcjZX37

No it is a proper level crossing on the road to Bishopstone from Stoke Manderville.

 

 

[Dagworth]

1 hour ago, lmsforever said:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7785016,-0.807681,3a,75y,263.39h,84.08t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sWpL8gwi7niqj6wbt4_hI8g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DWpL8gwi7niqj6wbt4_hI8g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D142.48215%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100?hl=en

[JDW]

22 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

Better for some, worse for more (anyway one row back suggests other people who'll move when it's clear). It doesn't sound like a net improvement, which is why I suggested a small repeater as an answer to both if there are enough people who have trouble with pelican crossings.

 

 

This seems to be a theme with a lot of things, where in the desire (entirely rightly of course) to make things easier and more accessible for the disabled/less able, we make it harder for the rest of the population.  It's easy to say "Well you can just bend down" or whatever, and in some cases that's possibly justified, but at the same time I do wonder why making things better for one group makes it ok to make things harder for everyone else, not to mention the fact that there are people with other hidden disabilities who are then disadvantaged.  I've used cash machines that are so low wheelchair users are looking down on them, and I've had to bend double to use it.  For some people, bending down like that simply isn't possible.  Whilst undoubtedly beneficial for a wheelchair user, it's hardly real progress and to a point probably does as much harm to the idea of better accessible facilities in the general population's mind as it helps.  

 

In the traffic light example, I agree that the pedestrian lights are in a much more awkward position when on the same side as the user.  For anyone except those standing next to them on a busy crossing, they are impossible to see.  I'm told they are meant to be positioned so that you are looking in the direction of approaching traffic (ie on the post to your right) rather than across the road, in reality that doesn't seem to work as well as the theory might suggest.

 

Just to get back on track, I'll end with two important words.

Level Crossings.

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, Dagworth said:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7785016,-0.807681,3a,75y,263.39h,84.08t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sWpL8gwi7niqj6wbt4_hI8g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DWpL8gwi7niqj6wbt4_hI8g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D142.48215%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100?hl=en

That's the one.

If you look closely there is a very good example of a joint between Bullhead and FB rail.

Marsh lane is scheduled to be closed when HS2 is built so a quiet cycling route will be lost.

Bernard

[dunwurken]

With so much off-topic postings it is getting harder to search this thread for on-topic items so apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before and I have overlooked it.

 

Appears the Ffestiniog has had another case of a loco failing to stop.  in this case 'Vale of Ffestiniog' ran away for 1.25 miles through open crossings and Beddgelert station and onto a single line section without authorisation before coming to a halt.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/locomotive-runaway-at-beddgelert

 

Malcolm

Edited May 8, 2019 by dunwurken

[JDW]

That's more than a little worrying

[lmsforever]

• They are going to build a bridge there so you will still be able to cycle towards Bishopstone and Haddenham, there is an excellent café at Hartwell Nuseries .When I went to the road show a woman who has got kennels just

[lmsforever]

Forgot to finish post ,woman at an HS2 roadshow was upset by the bridge idea because car headlights would shine into her dog kennel business ,don't know the outcome people at roadshow did not seem very clewed up on anything.

[Jonboy]

4 hours ago, dunwurken said:

With so much off-topic postings it is getting harder to search this thread for on-topic items so apologies in advance if this has been mentioned before and I have overlooked it.

 

Appears the Ffestiniog has had another case of a loco failing to stop.  in this case 'Vale of Ffestiniog' ran away for 1.25 miles through open crossings and Beddgelert station and onto a single line section without authorisation before coming to a halt.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/locomotive-runaway-at-beddgelert

 

Malcolm

 

I was planning a visit in the near future but do now have serious concerns about their recent issues. I know both Incidents have not involved through braked passenger stock but do share the same tracks....will be awaiting any interim reports with interest.

[Hobby]

I hope that all the spotters got their photos and videos of Flying Scotsman this afternoon. I also hope they are satisfied for the delays they caused to the normal trains and inconvenience to the travelling public.

 

I hope there will be some prosecutions.

 

If they want to keep mainline steam on the mainlines they are going the right way about it.... Not...

 

(Major delays on XC services between Birmingham and Derby due to trespassers)

Edited May 5, 2019 by Hobby

[mcowgill]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

 

I was planning a visit in the near future but do now have serious concerns about their recent issues. I know both Incidents have not involved through braked passenger stock but do share the same tracks....will be awaiting any interim reports with interest.

 

Having listened to a full explanation of the most recent incident from those involved I would not be particularly concerned about the risk to normal operations.   I am of course not able to provide more details as it is under formal investigation.