British outline locos overseas

[rodent279]

No.405 looks very similar to a photo of a Malaysian machine i have seen some photos of on Flickr.

[£1.38]

No.405 looks very similar to a photo of a Malaysian machine i have seen some photos of on Flickr.

Agreed - the Malaysian ones are English Electric (Preston) manufacture. There is a photo of one somewhere being loaded onto a ship (or unloaded) with the EE 'built by' poster clearly in view, stuck on the back end.

[Marshall5]

Apart from the incredible friendliness of the people I learned that anything in Sudan that wasn't in short supply/unavailable was worn out/broken and the railways were no exception. This was brought home to me on our journey across the desert, south from Sennar Jc to Ed Demazeen down by the Ethiopian border.  Our train consisting of Pacific #266, water tender, manaam (crew coach) our 'sleeper' / 'buffet car' and a dozen or so wagons was assembled in Sennar yard during the morning. I was pleased to see 266 on the front as I have a real 'soft spot' for these dainty North British Pacifics.  Our loco was one of 10 locos in steam on the shed with another 2 having minor repairs/inspection.  Another 20 locos in various states of disuse and dereliction lay around the shed.  We departed at 2.45 and had several runpasts and photo stops until darkness prevented further photography.  After our dinner in the buffet car most folks retired to their bunks in the 'sleeping car' - being careful not to disturb the cockroaches!

I awoke during the night and, at the next loop, walked forward to the loco and was invited, by the crew, to ride along for an hour or two. It was now that I realised how much abuse a steam loco will tolerate and still keep going.  Travelling at a steady 20-30 mph across the pitch black desert with the headlight illuminating the sleepers a good 20' in front of the loco we eventually saw the single white light indicating the next station where we were to be looped for a northbound diesel-hauled train. The driver closed the regulator, made a full vacuum brake application, the needle on the vac. gauge dropped down to the peg - and nothing happened!  Completely unconcerned the driver wound the loco into full reverse and yanked the regulator open.  With the driving wheels turning at about 15mph in reverse the train carried on through the loop and back onto the main at about the same speed in the forward direction. Eventually the train came to a halt (with the northbound train's headlight getting ever closer) and, without the driver touching the controls we set back into the station.  As we came to a halt the fireman used the large plug cock on the tender to shut off the supply of oil to the burners (all other controls being inoperative).  When the time came to depart the fireman re-opened the plug cock and neat "bunker C" was sprayed onto the, still glowing firebricks in the firebox. For a few seconds nothing happened - then all Hell broke loose, great tongues of orange flame shot out of the firedoor and ashpan, the driver blew the whistle, yanked open the regulator and off we went leaving the tiny desert station bathed in a pall of thick black oil smoke.  Unforgettable!

We arrived at our destination around 4 a.m. having taken 13 hrs to cover the 227km from Sennar Jc.                                     

Edited February 19, 2017 by Marshall5

[sir douglas]

 

below shows 4-4-0T No 4 built in 1885 and variously described as a Hunslet or a Kitson.

SGR 4-4-0T # 4 built 1885 at Atbara works.jpg

 

definitely a Hunslet, No 4 was "Ammon" Hunslet No 374 of 1885

 

heres a pic of it now a days (not my photo)

Edited February 19, 2017 by sir douglas

[rodent279]

Agreed - the Malaysian ones are English Electric (Preston) manufacture. There is a photo of one somewhere being loaded onto a ship (or unloaded) with the EE 'built by' poster clearly in view, stuck on the back end.

In fact, looking at Ray's first post again, no 402 looks astonishingly like the early pre-war LMS shunters.

[EddieB]

Some exciting and rare photographs, Ray.  Sudan was never an easy country to visit, as permits were needed to travel "up country" and for photography - and I suspect it is harder than ever now.  I never realised that it was visited by a TEFS party and would certainly appreciate seeing more from that trip (I think I have some prints bought a couple of years ago that may have been taken during the same trip).  Do you have pictures of the EE main line diesels in operation?  I'm trying to remember the exact details, but there were some Sudanese locomotives shipped back to this country (Cardiff?) for rehabilitation and return to service - I think in the 1990s.

 

Those are the first pictures I've seen of either type of the diesel shunters.  The resemblance of the first to the early LMS locomotives (and the South African preserved example) and the second to the Malayan class 15 has been noted.  Here's a couple of pictures of the latter, one of which is preserved on a roadside plinth in Alor Star Sungai Petani.

 

Here is 15115 being hauled dead in a freight train passing through the ornate station at Kula Lumpur, in April 1987.

 

15110 shunting at Gemas in the early hours of the morning (about 1am), March 1991.

Edited February 20, 2017 by EddieB

[EddieB]

definitely a Hunslet, No 4 was "Ammon" Hunslet No 374 of 1885

 

 

A little pedantic (apologies), but no. 4 AMMON is usually given as HE 372 of 1885 (374 being no. 6 GORGON).

 

More fascinating is the historic link that this class of locomotives represents.  In 1885, the British Government failed to relieve General Gordon, who was murdered in Khartoum in January of that year.  The "Mahdist uprising", or war between Britain and Sudan would continue for over a decade.

Edited February 20, 2017 by EddieB

[Marshall5]

Your wish is my command Eddie!  Unfortunately I didn't take many notes on the SGR diesels but there were plenty of the English Electrics about.  Am I correct in thinking that they were a joint EE/Vulcan product?  The old EE's seemed to resist the abuse far better than some of the more recent classes as witnessed by the long lines of semi-derelict more modern locos at Atbara works. I took a couple of hundred negs and slides and there's one below.

Only the boilers from the refurbished 310's came back to Wales - on the empty aid ships - it was the time of Band Aid maybe 1983/4?. The rest of the work was done in Sudan and the Railway Mag. carried an article about it IIRC.  TEFS actually ran 3 trips, Sept and Dec 1981 and Dec 1982 (joint with RCTS?). I think ours was the last as the Islamic hardliners were starting to clamp down on booze etc and there was growing political unrest.   

Cheers,

Ray.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                       

Edited February 19, 2017 by Marshall5

[rodent279]

Somewhere, someone must have a definitive history of the EE 350BHP shunter, and it's derivatives, and where these locos were exported to! I can think of 7 countries outside of the UK:- Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Malaysia, Sudan, Egypt & Australia. Can anyone add any?

 

Cheers N

[EddieB]

Your wish is my command Eddie!  Unfortunately I didn't take many notes on the SGR diesels but there were plenty of the English Electrics about.  Am I correct in thinking that they were a joint EE/Vulcan product?  The old EE's seemed to resist the abuse far better than some of the more recent classes as witnessed by the long lines of semi-derelict more modern locos at Atbara works. I took a couple of hundred negs and slides and there's one below.                                                                                                                                                                                 

Marvellous!  Yes, they were built in several batches by EE and VF.  Unlike similar locomotives for Kenya and East Africa, they were coCos and didn't have carrying axles.

 

Somewhere, someone must have a definitive history of the EE 350BHP shunter, and it's derivatives, and where these locos were exported to! I can think of 7 countries outside of the UK:- Sweden, Holland, Denmark, Malaysia, Sudan, Egypt & Australia. Can anyone add any?

 

Cheers N

I don't think it has been written, yet!  It really needs to go back to the roots of the engine development (which as I've remarked earlier, only really began after the demise of the airship industry) and its use in those early H-L 300hp designs.  (I can't work out why later locomotives had EE works numbers in addition to those of the builders, when those early ones did not).

[phil_sutters]

Here's a plate from a Wonder Book of Railways from the WW1 era, of a British built 4-4-0 hauling the Great Indian Peninsular Railway's Vice-Regal train. It gives no more information about the loco, although it seems to have decidedly Midland looks with a touch of Great Eastern around the cab - perhaps!

Looking back through the thread - belatedly, to see if anyone else had uploaded this plate, I saw a very similar Dubs loco in one of the early posts. The outside frame on the bogie seemed to be the main difference, although this Indian one would have been on their broader gauge.

Edited February 19, 2017 by phil_sutters

[russ p]

Your wish is my command Eddie!  Unfortunately I didn't take many notes on the SGR diesels but there were plenty of the English Electrics about.  Am I correct in thinking that they were a joint EE/Vulcan product?  The old EE's seemed to resist the abuse far better than some of the more recent classes as witnessed by the long lines of semi-derelict more modern locos at Atbara works. I took a couple of hundred negs and slides and there's one below.

Only the boilers from the refurbished 310's came back to Wales - on the empty aid ships - it was the time of Band Aid maybe 1983/4?. The rest of the work was done in Sudan and the Railway Mag. carried an article about it IIRC.  TEFS actually ran 3 trips, Sept and Dec 1981 and Dec 1982 (joint with RCTS?). I think ours was the last as the Islamic hardliners were starting to clamp down on booze etc and there was growing political unrest.   

Cheers,

Ray.

 

Disel hauled mixed at Kosti.jpg

 

Weren't these more or less 37s in a different package?

[black5f]

http://www.geoffs-trains.com/Museum/jacktar.html

 

As far as I know was used in UK to help build a line to Chinley before being sold with her sister. Her sister was sold to Kettering Iron and coal company, if she'd been sold to Africa maybe she'd still be around :-(.

[DavidB-AU]

The 220 class Pacifics were built by NBL in 1942 for the War Department to an earlier SGR design and shipped to Sudan. Similar locos went to Australia.

Basically the same as the Western Australian Government Railways Pm/Pmr class.

http://www.hothamvalleyrailway.com.au/pm_706.htm

 

Cheers

David

[rodent279]

Here's a photo from Flickr of the Malaysian shunters:-

https://flic.kr/p/pfhNm8

[Marshall5]

And now for something completely different!  I was pleasantly surprised to find, not one, but two Clayton steam railcars in reasonably complete condition.  The first, Clayton 673/2.1929 and SGR #900, was seen at Ed Demazeen and was only missing its vertical boiler.  The second was SGR 899 and was used as the enginemans' mess room at Kosti shed and, although the photo looks like it's 'grounded', it actually still had it's running gear albeit largely buried.  Back in the U.K. the LNER had a number of similar Clayton railcars the only major difference being that the SGR ones, to 3'6" gauge, had the driving wheels inside the frames and coupled by chains whilst the LNER ones had the wheels outside the frames and coupled by rods.  I wonder if they are still there?

Ray.

 

 

 

[sir douglas]

A little pedantic (apologies), but no. 4 AMMON is usually given as HE 372 of 1885 (374 being no. 6 GORDON).

 

More fascinating is the historic link that this class of locomotives represents.  In 1885, the British Government failed to relieve General Gordon, who was murdered in Khartoum in January of that year.  The "Mahdist uprising", or war between Britain and Sudan would continue for over a decade.

 

 

it is listed as 374 on Leedsengine.info

[EddieB]

Here's a photo from Flickr of the Malaysian shunters:-

https://flic.kr/p/pfhNm8

Yes, it was plinthed at Butterworth for many years, but is now displayed somewhere else.  I remember finding its new location on Google Streetview a while back - but I can't remember exactly where (or whether I posted a link or saved the location somewhere).

 

Edit: Sungai Petani - here we go: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@5.6413324,100.4903966,3a,75y,250.69h,81.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTYv3uJt4img0Pgw75gTOJw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

 

And now for something completely different!  I was pleasantly surprised to find, not one, but two Clayton steam railcars in reasonably complete condition.  The first, Clayton 673/2.1929 and SGR #900, was seen at Ed Demazeen and was only missing its vertical boiler.  The second was SGR 899 and was used as the enginemans' mess room at Kosti shed and, although the photo looks like it's 'grounded', it actually still had it's running gear albeit largely buried.  Back in the U.K. the LNER had a number of similar Clayton railcars the only major difference being that the SGR ones, to 3'6" gauge, had the driving wheels inside the frames and coupled by chains whilst the LNER ones had the wheels outside the frames and coupled by rods.  I wonder if they are still there?

Ray.

 

Wow!  There were only two of that type supplied to Sudan - it would be wonderful if either (or both) still exist.

 

The nearest thing to contemporary reports of Sudan can probably be found here: http://www.friendsoftherail.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=147

 

 

it is listed as 374 on Leedsengine.info

Yes, I've also found another list which has it as 376.  However there would appear to be duplicated entries for the first two locos "SPHINX" and "HERMES" (wks nos 333/4 with 371/2) and no entry for "TYPHOON" and "GORGON" (which I was thinking was a mis-spelling of "GORDON", but may be correct).

Edited February 20, 2017 by EddieB

[£1.38]

A Clayton for New Zealand

 

[EddieB]

Here is a very useful monograph on the Clayton steam railcars: http://www.ruddocksoflincoln.co.uk/store/product/71842/Clayton-Wagons-Ltd-by-J-G-Ruddock-%26-R-E-Pearson/ (Buying new from the publishers,as opposed to silly prices on Amazon!)

 

It includes a description and works photo of the Sudanese pair (as well as others built for export), but unsurprisingly focusses on those built for the LNER.

[£1.38]

Mauritius is an interesting place - a mix of French and British. The first locos were outside framed British 0-6-0Ts, from Sharp Stewart, supplied in the late 1860s.

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Was Mauritius the place with the Midland railway influenced double track main line?  Or was that Madagascar?

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[sir douglas]

a small collection of Andrew Barclay's

 

in contractor use to build the railway to Santander in northern spain

 

Buitron railway in south-western spain, No 15 "Santa Rosa"

 

Dunderland iron company in Norway

[EddieB]

Regarding the first picture, it was one of three locos supplied to Anglo Spanish Construction Co. in 1925.  All three subsequently entered industrial service, and all three still exist.  I can't read the builder's plate, but from the description I guess this is the most likely one of the three.

 

[EddieB]

Mauritius is an interesting place - a mix of French and British. The first locos were outside framed British 0-6-0Ts, from Sharp Stewart, supplied in the late 1860s.

 

abob.jpg

 

Not exclusively - the first 21 locos all came from Sharp Stewart (1863-69) but comprised four x 0-4-2, four x 2-4-0, seven x 0-6-0T and six x 0-8-0ST.

 

I'm interested in no. 25, an 0-4-0ST named "DODO" which came from Lowca.

 

Was Mauritius the place with the Midland railway influenced double track main line?  Or was that Madagascar?

 

Mauritius_Railway_No_60.jpg

Not sure what you mean - reliance on under-powered engines? 

 

But yes, that Garratt is lettered for the Mauritius Railway.