British outline locos overseas

[EddieB]

22 hours ago, kevsmiththai said:

So looking at the Video North British 4-6-0 165 is there along with Brush 0-6-0T 61. Ex Rhaetien Bahn 2-8-0 336, Hanomag 4-6-2 278, Henschel 0-6-0T 54 and the two Davenports. pretty much the enitre Makasan demic siding really except C56 2-6-0 733 ( Which was very tatty and incomplete). The cosmetic restoration of these is pretty incredible, almost too good

Yes, those are the numbers carried, though there is some debate around the true identities of 165 (171?), 336 (340?) and 278 (269?).

[Chen Melling]

Reading on in "British Rail Fleet Survey 7: Diesel Shunters" by Brian Harensnape, I learned that a couple of what became British Rail Class D3/7 still survive in Italy, as Class Ne. 700:
https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/unaltra-locomotiva-di-guerra-la-ne-700/

[Michael Edge]

Nice to see my drawing on there - pity we only sold one of the kits to Italy, after they asked us to produce it in HO scale. We have sold a few in other places but it hasn't been a big seller - it's still in production though.

[5944]

On 16/02/2024 at 15:22, Chen Melling said:

Reading on in "British Rail Fleet Survey 7: Diesel Shunters" by Brian Harensnape, I learned that a couple of what became British Rail Class D3/7 still survive in Italy, as Class Ne. 700:
https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2012/01/21/unaltra-locomotiva-di-guerra-la-ne-700/

https://maps.app.goo.gl/e7bLt8jfyWq11vJ7A

 

700.003 is stored at Arezzo Pescaiola station, just visible from on street view.

 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/gWtm6HdsB2mV9RU26

 

700.001 is the yellow shunter at the South end of the site. 

 

http://www.museoferroviariopiemontese.it/locomotiva-diesel-da-manovra-pesante-ne-700-001/

 

The site is only open to the public occasionally, the last time was in November.

[Chen Melling]

On 29/11/2014 at 01:55, Jenny Emily said:

There were a few class 04s that ended up being exported to Italy. I think at least one was working until a number of years ago and was unique in being the only surviving 04 at the time that had carried Rail Blue whilst owned by BR. The Heritage shunters people in Rowsley had an appeal for a while to raise the money to repatriate it but I don't know what happened to the appeal or the loco.

Here is a comprehensive list of ex BR Class 03s and Classs  04s in Italy:

https://features.rcts.org.uk/diesel-dilemmas/ex-br-diesel-shunting-locomotives-exported-italy/ex-br-03s-04s-exported-1972-italy/

[5944]

16 hours ago, Chen Melling said:

Here is a comprehensive list of ex BR Class 03s and Classs  04s in Italy:

https://features.rcts.org.uk/diesel-dilemmas/ex-br-diesel-shunting-locomotives-exported-italy/ex-br-03s-04s-exported-1972-italy/

At least one of the 03s still exists, or at least did 18 months ago - 03156 near Bari. It's just about visible on Google streetview, but the business where it's located has closed so it might have been scrapped.

 

https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2016/05/28/inglesine-in-italia/

 

A good article here with plenty of photos of various shunters in Italy, though some are from the RTCS website.

Edited February 22 by 5944

[auldreekie]

A roughly H0 scale (6/7 x 4mm to 1foot) model  nearing completion,  of a Federated Malay States 4-6-2 built by Kitsons  in 1916,  NBL in1919.  Some of these found their way to Thailand during(?) and after WW2.  There were a lot of them  (of the order of 60 I think) in three related classes

 

 

And another,  same peculiar scale,  similar state of completion.  This is of a Colombian railways pacific,  designed by a Briton,  PC Dewhurst and put into service in 1927.  It was designed to incorporate the best of UK and of US practice of the time.  Only two were built,  one by Haine St Pierre in Belgium,  the other by BMAG in Berlin.

 

 

And this one has a bit further to go before it's up and running:  a small pacific for the Darjeeling Himalayan railway by North British in 1914.

 

 

The design of this one was based on an earlier and larger NB product for the Bengal Nagpur Railway.  This one ,  and the Darjeeling derivative are to 4mm scale,  for comparability with the others.  The were respectively on 2foot 6 inch and 2foot gauge,  whereas the others were on metre gauge and therefor rather larger all over.

 

 

 

auldreekie

Edited February 22 by auldreekie

[Chen Melling]

The next pointer in "British Rail Fleet Survey 7: Diesel Shunters" by Brian Harensnape led me to former BR Class 06 no. D2432, which found a third (!) life in Italy, along with fellows from Classes 03, 04 and 07:
https://features.rcts.org.uk/diesel-dilemmas/ex-br-diesel-shunting-locomotives-exported-italy/ex-br-03s-06-07-exported-trieste-italy/

[Chen Melling]

Besides Liberia, original BR Class 08s also went Guinea (Boke Railway - https://www.railway-centre.com/uploads/7/2/2/3/7223531/class_08-13_fleet_list.pdf) and France (I couldn'e find a photo of either abroad)

 

[Chen Melling]

"British Rail Fleet Survey 7: Diesel Shunters" by Brian Harensnape, has turned out to be very much worth the many mentions I gave it on these pages lately, opening my eyes to a plethora of British locomotive types I've never heard of before, and giving several pointer to exported ones. The last of which are probably the most obscure, being two of the 5 diesel-electric demonstrators built in 1958 by Brush and Beyer Peacock. After failing to find a buyer on the British Isles, the couple were refurbished and sold for use in the Skopje Steel Works in what was then Jugoslavia.

Alas, I could not find an on-line photo of either.

[whart57]

On 22/02/2024 at 11:03, auldreekie said:

A roughly H0 scale (6/7 x 4mm to 1foot) model  nearing completion,  of a Federated Malay States 4-6-2 built by Kitsons  in 1916,  NBL in1919.  Some of these found their way to Thailand during(?) and after WW2.  There were a lot of them  (of the order of 60 I think) in three related classes

 

Seventeen went to Thailand in 1945. Two were subsequently sold back to the FMSR a few years later. They were somewhat under-powered compared to the Thai Pacifics and as the Japanese had left large numbers of their very good C56 branch line engine behind there wasn't much lighter work for them either. Most were scrapped in the 1950s along with the half dozen Werkspoor/Beyer Peacock 4-6-0s from the Dutch East Indies. The fact they were non-standard and spares hard to come by was what had them off to the breakers yard early. Two apparently remain in Thailand as museum pieces, though where now could be a mystery.

[auldreekie]

My figure of about 60 was rather casually given. 

 

In fact,  so far as I have gleaned from the internet (I claim no expertise in the matter),  there were at least 26,  which encompassed maybe two batches,  of the superheated Federated Malayan States Railways Class P (the version of which a model has been attempted).  Then there were a further 20 of the subsequent enlarged and improved Belpaire-boilered class L.   And,  before Class P,  the very similar but saturated class H numbered 60 units.

 

The history of these classes appears to have been quite complicated.  Although the main original destination was the Federated Malay States Railways, a few of the two earlier classes (H and P) were diverted en route to Indian railways,  and some of these may have found their way onward to Malaya later.   As you say,  a significant number of Class P ended up in Thailand

 

auldreekie

Edited February 25 by auldreekie

[EddieB]

Yes, the history of the FMSR Pacifics can be a little confusing.  The story begins with the H class, of which 60 locomotives were built by Kitson, Nasmyth Wilson and Robert Stephenson and delivered between 1908 and 1914.   Withdrawals started in 1935 and of the nine remaining in service at the time of the Japanese invasion and occupation eight were taken to Southern Thailand, where they remained after the war.

 

The P class were a superheated version of the H class.  Orders were delayed due to the first World War and of the ten originally ordered from Kitson only four were delivered to Malaya - the others commandeered by the Indian administration for the Bombay, Baroda and Central India Railway (as the BBCIR R class).  However a further sixteen of the class were built for the FMSR by North British in 1920.  All twenty of these locomotives were removed by the Japanese, based mainly at the Burma end of the notorious "death railway".  Two were abandoned in Burma, the rest taken over by Thailand after the war.  In 1951 two were returned to Malaya, to work as pilots during the emergency.

 

The third of the initial Pacific classes was the L class - a larger version of its predecessors.  Twenty of these were built by Kitsons in 1921.  Again, some were removed during the Japanese occupation, but all were returned to Malaya.  One of these locomotives is preserved at the Muzium Negara, Kuala Lumpur:

 

The two locomotives preserved in Thailand are both of the former FMSR P class.  FMSR 190/RSR 810* is preserved as "804" at Kanchanburi: 

 

The real* 804 (FMSR 185) is at Aura Farm (45km north of Khon Kaen) as "187": https://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/display.htm?page=thaipreserved.htm&bookmark=804&photter=Chris_York&title=Thailand&image=pics18/thailand18001.jpg

 

*True identification can be problematic - these appear to be the most likely.

[009 micro modeller]

Not sure if the broad gauge locos in Ponta Delgada (Azores) have been mentioned in this thread yet: https://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/azores01.htm

 

Fairly normal-looking British industrial designs but obviously adapted to the wider gauge, and they did run in the UK (Holyhead breakwater) before being exported.

[DarthHelix]

I haven't seen much mention of New Zealand Railways in this topic. Many of NZR's early steam locomotives looked very british outline as built but were modified over the years. Many of the first NZR diesel locomotives were also built to british pratice but there are a few locomotives that were built to the same designs. These locomotives were the DSA which was series of 0-6-0 heavy shunting locomotives built by a variety of builders.

NZR DSA Class built by Hunslet in 1957 similar to the Br Class 05

NZR DSA Class built by Bagnall in 1956 similar to the locomotives used by NCB

NZR DSA Class built by Drewry/Vulcan in 1953 similar to the Br Class 03/04

  

[Mol_PMB]

A nice selection of British WD locos in the Netherlands can be seen here:

 

https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldmateriaal/?mode=gallery&view=horizontal&q=war department&rows=1&page=1

[Marshall5]

One of the ex WD 2-10-0's 'Longmoor' is on display (or was in 1980) in the Utrecht transport museum.

Ray.

 

[auldreekie]

I refer back to a post I made on 22 February,  which illustrated a group of four UK-designed or UK-built steam locomotives,  all of "pacific" axle/wheel arrangement,  all the originals being for overseas railways on a variety of narrow gauges.  At the time,  most of the models were in only the early stages of construction.  

 

Now,  in addition to the  then more-or-less complete Bengal Nagpur railway's CS class machine,  two of the others are very close to completion in model form.

 

 

These are the Class P pacific,  built by Kitsons for the railways of the Federated Malay States,  and one of a pair of pacifics designed by PC Dewhurst for the railways of Colombia,  this one of which was built by BMAG,  the other (with differences of detail) by Haine St Pierre.

 

The final member of my gang of four was the Darjeeling Himalaya railway's Class C pacific,  a smaller machine whose design was based on that of the Bengal Nagpur CS class.  As a small-scale model in my production-line it remains as yet "in the white",  although a bit further toward completion than it was in February.  When I feel ready to sign off the others,  completion of the Darjeeling build will be high up the "finish what you've started" priority list....

 

auldreekie