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British outline locos overseas

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Don't know about the Caley Jumbos but the NBR equivalent 0-6-0s (later LNER J36) certainly did. The returned locos were honoured by being named - not common for freight locos - after WW1 "celebrities"    Hence the preserved example Maude named for a General of the same name.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

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I just checked my copy of H J C Cornwell's The Caledonian Railway 'Jumbos' and it seems that I must have been thinking of some other locomotives for, although 25 Jumbos were sent overseas, they all returned.  There were 12 Drummond locomotives, four Smellie locomotives and 9 Lambie ones.  Interestingly, the St Rollox Locomotive Register recorded them as 'Sold to Government.  Broken up 31/12/17' and this was used by Pickersgill as justification for authorising the building of 25 of his 300 class 0-6-0s.....

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Built in 1902 for the Staatsspoorwegen in Netherlands:

P1010699.jpg.8af1399b24c58ffa06fcbd88cc00fedf.jpg

 

This is an 0 gauge model (by Philotrain):

 

P1180372.JPG

P1180369.JPG

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That is a wonderful model, thank you for posting that.

Clearly, a man with taste!

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Hi All,

Not exactly British outline but British built;

http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/photographs/locomotives/Publicity/Turkish 2-10-0.pdf

 

http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/magazine/Vol1_no3_1948/pages13-18.htm

 

303-02m.JPG

 

I did a search of this topic and I couldn't find any previous mention of these very Germanic looking Vulcan built locos.

Apparently, 22 were ordered under a Turkish-British trade agreement of 11 April 1939 but not delivered until 1948 (some unpleasantness started in September 1939!). I understand there were also 15 more from Beyer-Peacock in the same time frame.

I believe there were also some (50?) 2-8-2s ordered (and delivered) too, these were also very Germanic looking.

1es4m.jpg

 

Something I wasn't aware of, anyway!

Cheers,

John.

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On 16/08/2019 at 12:22, Allegheny1600 said:

Hi All,

Not exactly British outline but British built;

http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/photographs/locomotives/Publicity/Turkish 2-10-0.pdf

 

http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/magazine/Vol1_no3_1948/pages13-18.htm

 

http://www.trains-worldexpresses.com/300/303-02m.JPG

 

I did a search of this topic and I couldn't find any previous mention of these very Germanic looking Vulcan built locos.

Apparently, 22 were ordered under a Turkish-British trade agreement of 11 April 1939 but not delivered until 1948 (some unpleasantness started in September 1939!). I understand there were also 15 more from Beyer-Peacock in the same time frame.

I believe there were also some (50?) 2-8-2s ordered (and delivered) too, these were also very Germanic looking.

https://www.abload.de/img/1es4m.jpg

 

Something I wasn't aware of, anyway!

Cheers,

John.

This 1939 order is why the Stanier 8fs went toTurkey.

 

At the time of war 8fs took over production lines, tooling this beast up wasn’t an option so 8f’s were sent instead.

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On 16/08/2019 at 19:52, Allegheny1600 said:

Hi All,

Not exactly British outline but British built;

http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/photographs/locomotives/Publicity/Turkish 2-10-0.pdf

 

http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/magazine/Vol1_no3_1948/pages13-18.htm

 

http://www.trains-worldexpresses.com/300/303-02m.JPG

 

I did a search of this topic and I couldn't find any previous mention of these very Germanic looking Vulcan built locos.

Apparently, 22 were ordered under a Turkish-British trade agreement of 11 April 1939 but not delivered until 1948 (some unpleasantness started in September 1939!). I understand there were also 15 more from Beyer-Peacock in the same time frame.

I believe there were also some (50?) 2-8-2s ordered (and delivered) too, these were also very Germanic looking.

https://www.abload.de/img/1es4m.jpg

 

Something I wasn't aware of, anyway!

Cheers,

John.

 

There were 166 2-10-0s delivered to the TCDD of this particular design. As mentioned above, 22 from VF and 15 from BP, the remainder coming from German and Czech builders.  Two more were built by the TCDD's own workshops in 1961.

 

There were only 11 2-8-2s delivered of the above design - all from Henschel in 1937. 

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To quote from the Vulcan pdf I linked to;

"In 1939 a contract was placed in this country by the Turkish State Railways (T.C.D.D.) for a number of class 1E freight locomotives of a previous German design, "

I guess the Turks were happy with their existing designs but wanted more of the same. The class 1E (2-10-0) was actually a two cylinder design so was closer to being a BR43 rather than a BR44 (three cylinders).

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G'day Folks

 

British built, 4-8-2 for the South Australian Railways, re built to 4-8-4 later. 500 class, No 504.

 

manna

Tom Barr Smith, Mile End 1969.jpg

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On 23/08/2019 at 18:29, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

How did British builders end up building what look like DRG einheitsdampflokomotive? Were the Turkish engines similar to BR44s?

It wasn't unknown for British builders to bult locos to existing designs. Among the best know were the majority of the Etat consolidations that became SNCF class 140C, The first batch of these were built to the C.F. de l'Etat's design by a couple of French builders but the exigencies of WW1 meant that most of them were built by North British followed by a large order to North British and Vulcan from the French military's heavy rail artillery unit (ALVF) ostensibly to haul heavy guns though they were, AFAIK, never used for this and were allocated to several railways to beef up war supply. They ended up being the last SNCF steam locos in regular revenue service (though rented to a subsidiary)

 

A couple of years before WW1 the same CF de l'Etat had also ordered from North British, a batch of fifty locos to Peter Drummond's Highland Railway's Castle Class design. Apart from a slightly widened cab , taller chimney and a Westinghouse brake pump , these were identical to the Highland Railway locos  though their tenders did have solid coal rails. 

I don't know whether the HR or NBL would have actually owned the design of these locos or whether some kind of licencing arrangement would have been agreed between NBL, HR and the Etat.  

In some countries it seems to have been far more common than in Britain for the railway to come up with the design but then order it from several loco builders. In Britain the major railway companies usually built their own locos in their own workshops (e.g. Swindon or Crewe)  I've never been too sure why it worked out that way in Britain but did it weaken our commercial loco building industry when pitted against the likes of Baldwin or Henschel  outside the largely captive markets of the British Empire? 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, manna said:

G'day Folks

 

British built, 4-8-2 for the South Australian Railways, re built to 4-8-4 later. 500 class, No 504.

 

manna

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/1509371739_TomBarrSmithMileEnd1969.jpg.523285cfb2afa1446d3c08bf3548db89.jpg

 

British built but hardly British outline. Distinctly American outline which was William Webb's background. Prior to Webb's arrival in 1922, the South Australian Railways was "terribly British". In fact very Midland Railway in its philosophy of building woefully underpowered locos and double heading everything over the torturous 1 in 45 Adelaide Hills.

 

Cheers

David 

Edited by DavidB-AU
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8 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

It wasn't unknown for British builders to bult locos to existing designs. Among the best know were the majority of the Etat consolidations that became SNCF class 140C, The first batch of these were built to the C.F. de l'Etat's design by a couple of French builders but the exigencies of WW1 meant that most of them were built by North British followed by a large order to North British and Vulcan from the French military's heavy rail artillery unit (ALVF) ostensibly to haul heavy guns though they were, AFAIK, never used for this and were allocated to several railways to beef up war supply. They ended up being the last SNCF steam locos in regular revenue service (though rented to a subsidiary)

 

 

The French ETAT also ordered part of a series (40 locomotives of a total of 283) of their (famous) Pacifics from North British https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/231_État_501_à_783#/media/Fichier:North-British_Locomotive_Company_French_4-6-2.jpg

 

The ETAT Pacifics are well known with older modellers. Marescot/Fournereau already made in the twenties and thirties very detailed models of these in 0 gauge:

 

P1010217.JPG.7154a7fdedc76709fab7de2bf0c19726.JPG

 

Regards

Fred

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, sncf231e said:

The French ETAT also ordered part of a series (40 locomotives of a total of 283) of their (famous) Pacifics from North British https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/231_État_501_à_783#/media/Fichier:North-British_Locomotive_Company_French_4-6-2.jpg

 

The ETAT Pacifics are well known with older modellers. Marescot/Fournereau already made in the twenties and thirties very detailed models of these in 0 gauge:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/P1010217.JPG.7154a7fdedc76709fab7de2bf0c19726.JPG

 

Regards

Fred

Interesting Fred. According to Wiki the locos built by NBL during WW1 were among those that basically became SNCF 3-231C though some may have acquired later letters in the series depending on mods and rebuilds. Apparently NBL actually built 45 of these locos but five of those were to replace locos lost at sea following a U-boat attack. Sadly only one of the Etat Pacifics 3-231G558 seems to have survived and that was built in Nantes by Batignolles in 1922. 

 

As well as the 231s and 140Cs I knew that NBL also built 50 of the 170 PO 230s that became SNCF 4-230G  (3-230K for those that had been moved to the Etat) As with the Etat Pacifics and 140Cs  (they built 215 from a class totalling 340) , this order was the result of WW1 limiting loco production in France. 

Of the seven 140Cs that appear to have survived, in states ranging from plinthed to active, all were built by North British. 

Edited by Pacific231G
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Posted (edited)

North British build 40 ETAT pacifics (231-650 till 231-689 from the total series 231-500 till 231-783) after an order in 1915, since French orders for French builders could not be finished because of the war. They were delivered from summer 1916 - spring 1917. Later the whole series was renumbered to 3-231 C 501 till 3-231 C 783. They were renumbered twice by the SNCF, the new number depending on the changes that were made to each locomotive, most became 231D, some became 231H, others 231C, F or G (there is a full table in the La Vie du Rail book Les Pacific Regionales). Like all other ETAT  pacifics the North British ones ended their life in the fifties and sixties. One ETAT pacific is still running, but not a North British build one.

Regards

Fred

Edited by sncf231e
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Not exactly a loco, but the Melbourne Harris train was based on the class 506.

 

113322.jpg

 

Photo by Weston Langford from 1973 (CC-BY-ND).

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On 28/08/2019 at 15:08, DavidB-AU said:

 

British built but hardly British outline. Distinctly American outline which was William Webb's background.

 

 As rebuilt, sure. I’d argue that as delivered, the Webb engines had a rather jaunty colonial look about them. And very attractive with it!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

1024px-South_Australian_Railways_500_Cla

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G'day,

I am not sure if anybody has previously mentioned the Tasmanian Government Railway X class English Electrics.

32 units were built in the UK for the TGR from 1950.

Being an EE 6 SRKT  660hp  weighing 57 tons.

Narrow gauge 3 foot 6 inch.

The class were the first diesel electric main line locos introduced down-under.

7 of the class are preserved, including X10 seen in my photo taken in 1993.

Steve.

X 10 Claremont 4 apl 1993.JPG

Tasrail X10 Claremont 4 april 1993 S Jeffs audio.mp3

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The first 20 of the X class were built at Vulcan Foundry and the final 12 at the Dick Kerr works in Preston. They are very similar to the New Zealand Railways DE class which were also built at Preston.

 

The South Australian Railways 800 class and Midland Railway of Western Australia F class are mechanically the same (although the F was an A1A-A1A) but were built in Australia by English Electric at Rocklea.

 

Cheers
David

Edited by DavidB-AU

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On 05/09/2019 at 10:27, DavidB-AU said:

Not exactly a loco, but the Melbourne Harris train was based on the class 506.

 

https://www.westonlangford.com/media/photos/113322.jpg

 

Photo by Weston Langford from 1973 (CC-BY-ND).

Hi David,

 

Is the unit pictured running with the sliding doors open ?

I rode upon some French units while on holiday in Nice in the late 1980's that would allow the doors to be opened when in motion.

 

Gibbo.

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3 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

 

Is the unit pictured running with the sliding doors open ?

 

 

They initially had manual doors which generally weren't closed by passengers unless the train was close to crush capacity or it was cold outside. This photo was from a hot January so doors being left open was pretty normal. Some later refurbishments had manual opening, power closing doors using the same mechanism as the Hitachi trains, however not all received this modification as they were earmarked for withdrawal in the 1980s as the new Comeng trains were delivered.

 

Cheers

David

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5 hours ago, sir douglas said:

rio tinto No 14 beyer peacock and Hunslet diesel

 

 

Hi Sir Douglas,

 

That is the most oddly shaped bunker I have ever seen !

 

Is there a reason for such a shape that you might know of ?

 

Gibbo.

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My guess is to enable filling from an overhead hopper whilst retaining the ability to use fire irons easily and remove a regulator rod etc.

Ray.

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