Possible train formation for penzance bound class 52

[Clagsniffer]

Ive just bought one of the new Dapol westerns in oo gauge and I have to say its a cracker! cant wait to get a sound chip in there with a nice bass reflex speaker in the space provided!

 

Anyway, im looking to get some info on a possible train for this loco to pull on my penzance based layout. Can anybody provide details on the formation including coach types in the rake? Also the headcode for this train would be handy also so i can put it in the indicator boxes.

 

The model in question is in BR blue livery so i was thinking of a nice rake of blue and grey Bachmann mk1s.

 

I have space for a train length of 7 to 8 coaches.

 

Cheers!

[Fat Controller]

You might well find some inspiration here:-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69084-kernow-blues-1970-to-1985/

[Flood]

Probably the last timetable with Mk1 stock in every train would be 1971 so by looking at the Carriage Working Programme for 1971-72 on the BR Coaching Stock forum we have:

 

10.30 Paddington - Penzance (1B65 Cornish Riviera)

2 TSO, 2 BSK, FK, TSO to Penzance + RBK, FO, TSO, BFK Paddington to Plymouth. Goes to 10.55 Penzance - Paddington next day (1A25)

 

12.30 Paddington - Penzance (1B15)

SK*, TSO, SK, 2 BSK, FK, CK* to Penzance + RB, FO, BCK Paddington to Plymouth. Goes to 12.25 Penzance - Paddington next day (1A45)

(* SK is summer timetable only, winter timetable CK goes to Plymouth not Penzance)

 

14.30 Paddington - Penzance (1B35)

SK*, TSO, SK, 2 BSK, FK, CK* to Penzance + RB, RUO, BCK Paddington to Plymouth. Goes to 08.05 Penzance - Paddington next day (1A85)

(* SK is summer timetable only, winter timetable CK goes to Plymouth not Penzance)

 

16.30 Paddington - Penzance (1B58)

TSO, SK, 2 BSK, FK, CK* to Penzance + RB, RUO, BCK Paddington to Plymouth. Goes to 06.35 Penzance - Paddington next day (1A65)

(*winter timetable CK goes to Plymouth not Penzance)

 

The TSO stock could easily be Mk2 vacuum braked stock, everything else would be Mk1. These should give you a good selection of stock to buy. The rakes are arranged as they left Paddington i.e. loco, 2 TSO, 2 BSK etc, TSO, BFK, buffer stops.

 

Cornwall in the early 1970s is a great place to model. Bachmann make all the Mk1 and early Mk2 stock and the rakes from Monday to Friday are only 5 to 7 coaches long.

[Clagsniffer]

Thanks for the replies guys. Looking at the supplied head codes included with the loco, I can use the formation 1B35. Am I right in saying the train rolling into Penzance wouldn't have the RB, RUO and BCK, these having been detached at Plymouth?

 

Thanks again.

[Flood]

Thanks for the replies guys. Looking at the supplied head codes included with the loco, I can use the formation 1B35. Am I right in saying the train rolling into Penzance wouldn't have the RB, RUO and BCK, these having been detached at Plymouth?

 

Thanks again.

Absolutely correct.

[Neal Ball]

You have a model of PZ? - One of my favourite stations - Welcome to RMWeb!!

[Flood]

Just for completeness the Carriage Working Programme states that "When Brakes are marshalled together, the van ends should be adjacent".

 

I can only find two photos around this time in books, one in "Railway Elegance" and one in "Westerns, Warships and Hymeks At Work". Both photos show the brake ends together on the rakes. With regard to the CK the booklets normally state which way round the CK should face but although a note is there to be used, no note is quoted next to the rake consist. I would guess that they marshalled the CK so the first class was next to the FK and this is bourne out by the photo in "Railway Elegance".

[Andy1963]

With regard to correct headcodes, I found a website with loads of western region headcodes and locomotives rostered for some of the trains.  I think I saved a link to it on my home laptop, I shall look and post a link later if I can find it again.

[Gwiwer]

For the mid 1970s this is spot on.  You have the formations, the headcodes and the fact that the catering portion was detached / reattached at Plymouth which was the case until the advent of HSTs in the south-west with very few exceptions.

 

You could use all Mk1 stock which also allows you to consider the date as anything from around 1968 onwards though all b/g rakes with blue locos only became the norm (as opposed to mixed livery formations) around 1970-1.

 

Until 1971 you could also place a class 42 on the front since those were regular power through Cornwall and sometimes used singly or in pairs to and from Paddington.  Locos were sometimes exchanged at Plymouth and sometimes worked throughout.  It also wasn't unknown for a van (BG or GUV) to be shunted onto some workings at Plymouth for transfer west or vice versa.

 

Longer trains only reached Penzance on summer weekends as a rule when it was possible to see as many as 12 Mk1s being gamely coaxed over the banks by what ever the motive power department had available.  Class 45, 46 and 47 all showed up on cross-country turns with 47s on London duties as well.  Back in those days relief trains could be run according to demand and often appeared on Fridays and Saturdays.  My recollection is of around 10 Mk 1 coaches mostly SK or TSO with back-to-back brakes in the middle and a solitary CK or FK.  No catering was provided - you brought your own or managed without on the extras.

[chrisstiffer]

I've also got a Penzance layout based in the 1970's where I'll often run a full timetable and my favorite train to run is the 8.00 Bristol to PZ which had an buffet at the front, was regularly Western hauled and in your interest formed of mark 1's. The typical rake was RUB/2SK/FK/2SK/BG on a weekday (Saturdays BG/2SK/FK/2SK/RMB/CK). There was only one other train in the mid 70's that brought a buffet to PZ.

 

But to me you can't beat a Western on a rake of Mk2a/b/c of which the Penzance portion was usually 3TSO/2xBSO/FK, which as mentioned above should have been marshalled with the brakes facing each other but wasn't always, I like both brakes facing in the same direction, (and with or without a BG or a GUV) and later in the 70's more fixed at BG/4TSO/FK. 

 

regards, Chris.

[Flood]

It was May 1976 when the Penzance rakes swapped from being 2 x BSO to having a BG.

 

I was modelling early October 1976 to get a full range of coach types: Mk2 air-con on 3 London rakes, Mk2a/b/c on the other Londons, Mk2 vacuum braked on the Penzance - Leeds (very soon moved over to air-braked stock) and Mk1s on the Bristol - Penzance and overnight trains.

 

This meant I could run far more Class 50s than Westerns (just like I prefer some Thompson Pacifics to Peppercorn ones, see the Peterborough North thread). I very rarely follow the crowd!

 

As I stated a while ago I do have the complete coaching stock and parcels rakes for both Summer 1976 and Winter 1976 for Penzance laid out in two pdf files. The parcels rakes are representations but are pretty close from looking at photographs from around the time. If anyone is interested in these I should be able to p.m them.

[Gwiwer]

The PDFs would be of interest here.

[chrisstiffer]

I've got similar for Summer 69, Summer 75, Summer 76 and Winter 79 (if you want to run more Mk2fs and a couple of HST) - although I find running the full timetable for a Saturday takes so long that you've run out of time in a session before you get to 10.30 in the morning. Plus I find you need so many coaches at some points - I think I worked out you'd need 25 Mk1 SK/TSO.  I'd also be happy to share my files - what's pm, personal mail? 

 

I'm currently making a couple of Dia 723 BPOT's so I can run a realistic TPO which is the only rake I can't make at present. Although to my charign just this week I finally found a photo of the seaboard side of the 1970's TPO revealing the sorting vans are dia 721 and not the 720 Bachmann ones. Oh well I'll have to squint.

 

Chris.

[Gwiwer]

PM = Private Message.

 

Under each member's name there is an icon of an envelope.  Click on that to send a message directly and privately to that person.  

 

I'd welcome the 1969 details in particular though if it's just as easy the lot will be helpful.

[zigzag]

It was May 1976 when the Penzance rakes swapped from being 2 x BSO to having a BG.

 

 

Presumably the 2xBSO was for mail/parcels capacity, so when replaced by a BG was the formation shortened or were the 2xBSO replaced by 1xBG + 1xTSO?

 

PS I would welcome a pm with the 1975, 1976 & 1979 details please

[Flood]

 

Although to my charign just this week I finally found a photo of the seaboard side of the 1970's TPO revealing the sorting vans are dia 721 and not the 720 Bachmann ones. Oh well I'll have to squint.

 

Chris.

Now that's my kind of attention to detail!

 

If you've got any photos of the layout I'd be interested to see them. Why not start a new thread on your layout (if you haven't already).

 

 

Zigzag.

The rakes went from 3 TSO, 2 BSO, FK to BG, 4 TSO, FK. The 11.30 from Paddington (04.47 to Paddington next day) stayed as 3 TSO, FK, BFK and the 17.30 from Paddington (10.55 to Paddington next day) stayed as 4 TSO, FK, BFK.