A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[David C]

Would The Station Master (and indeed, any other professional railwaymen/women) consider starting a thread or some kind of archive on how the real thing was operated - at least, in the days of steam? Its 50+ years since steam ended and this kind of information is invaluable for modellers and not readily available, at least in one place. There are the books by Bob Essery, but I haven't found them that useful or comprehensive.

 

David C

[Gruffalo]

Also, would it be right to guess that the GWR oil trains largely came from the Fawley Refinery in Hampshire?

Fawley was in Southern territory but the western area had smaller oil depots at Plymouth (Cattewater), Swansea and Avonmouth plus Milford Haven might have been coming into play although most of its construction and expansion would probably have been in the 60's.

[gwrrob]

1. 'Empty' tank wagons are dangerous because they have not been purged and thus still contain volatile gases - which are often more easily flammable than the actual petroleum product.

 

2. Single star tank wagons are those marked with only one star - like the Mobil ones in Rob's train  (actually all the wagons in the train look to be single star nut the star isn't readily visible on some of them).

 

3. Class A tank cars were painted silver from 1939 onwards (any wartime dalliances apart(, prior to that they had been buff coloured; they are used to product with a lower flashpoint, e.g. petrol.

 

Right I've had a closer look at what I'm using so feel free to tell me what I need to chuck out of this train.Hopefully I can keep some.

 

The Mobil versions are black with a white star.

 

The OMO version has a white star too.

 

The Esso and Fina versions are both in sliver with black star although I do have another Fina in black with a white star.

 

My favourite is the Pratts Spirit which is a buff colour with a black star.

[The Stationmaster]

Also, would it be right to guess that the GWR oil trains largely came from the Fawley Refinery in Hampshire?

I seriously doubt if - apart from wartime - any block oil trains ever ran in GWR days - most traffic was occasional tank cars marshalled in ordinary freight trains.  I'm more than open to further education but I think the only refinery in GWR territory in GWR days was Llandarcy, reputedly the oldest oil refinery in Britain. Traffic might well have been despatched from there to a local yard as a full trip load but then it would go forward by the appropriate train for its destination.  Most receiving depots before WWII were fairly small having space for only a handful of tank cars but the 'strategic stores built during the build up to the war mostly had sidings capable of accepting a full or part train (and might have accepted block trains in post war years?).

 

 

 

Would The Station Master (and indeed, any other professional railwaymen/women) consider starting a thread or some kind of archive on how the real thing was operated - at least, in the days of steam? Its 50+ years since steam ended and this kind of information is invaluable for modellers and not readily available, at least in one place. There are the books by Bob Essery, but I haven't found them that useful or comprehensive.

 

David C

What would you like covered?

[gwrrob]

I need to break them up and put them in a mixed freight then instead ?

[Siberian Snooper]

Fawley was in Southern territory but the western area had smaller oil depots at Plymouth (Cattewater), Swansea and Avonmouth plus Milford Haven might have been coming into play although most of its construction and expansion would probably have been in the 60's.

The Plymouth oil terminal is on the Cattewater branch of the other railway in Plymouth, so would block oil trains be run over the GW?

 

SS

[colin penfold]

Block oil trains from Fawley ran over GWR metals along the DNSR en route to the midlands. However as Mike has already mentoined, this was in BR days not pre-nationalisation

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Rob as l only have a few a block train of tankers is definitely out, mine are marshalled into a mixed freights the make up of these trains is an art so photo's will aid you on how to make them up or you can throw up a thread on the subject and maybe gleen some information from the more knowledgeable members on this subject you did say earlier "a can of worms".

Not so much a can of worms more a matter of certain restrictions on what could be marshalled where for safety reasons (e.g. flammable liquids, explosives etc), what had to marshalled where because of restrictions on specific vehicle types or other traffics, and finally what had to be marshalled where on account of where it was attached to or detached from the train.  The possibly confusing thing about the latter - as someone said to me very early in my railway career - is all a matter of geography but what you need to know is railway geography because that isn't the same as the normal kind (and that is very true).  

 

After that it's all a matter of simple logic and having memory banks that would put the average computer to shame or, far more usefully, knowing where to look.

[colin penfold]

[i

 

 

 

After that it's all a matter of simple logic and having memory banks that would put the average computer to shame or, far more usefully, knowing where to look.

Trains, don't talk to me about trains. Brain the size of a planet and they've got me checking headcodes ;o)

Edited September 23, 2013 by colin penfold

[Mallard60022]

How did fuel oil get to Devonport Dockyard then. Was it in Oil Tankers (ships that is)?

 

P

[The Stationmaster]

How did fuel oil get to Devonport Dockyard then. Was it in Oil Tankers (ships that is)?

 

P

Almost inevitably I would have thought - the quantity the Navy used, and had in storage, would equate more to shiploads than trainloads I would have thought.

[cary hill]

If "Pratts Spirit" became "Esso" in 1935, is Rob alright to be running the "Pratts" branded tanker in 1947?  Would WW2 have delayed the rebranding exercise.?

[gwrrob]

If "Pratts Spirit" became "Esso" in 1935, is Rob alright to be running the "Pratts" branded tanker in 1947?  Would WW2 have delayed the rebranding exercise.?

 

I don't care if it's wrong,it's my favourite and stays no matter what.Kingsbridge had a depot for 'Pratts' at one time.Perhaps.

 

Here it is parked by the goods shed awaiting to be taken down the branch.

 

 

 

 

 

edit photo added.

Edited September 24, 2013 by gwrrob

[R A Watson]

How did fuel oil get to Devonport Dockyard then. Was it in Oil Tankers (ships that is)?

 

P

Naval refuelling was and still is at Thankes Point on the opposite side of the Hamoaze just outside Torpoint.

 

It takes the shape of commercial tankers deliver And R F A (Royal Fleet Auxillary) tankers out. Naval vessels are replenished at sea and not alongside the dock to minimise pollution risks.

 

Wally

[OnTheBranchline]

I seriously doubt if - apart from wartime - any block oil trains ever ran in GWR days - most traffic was occasional tank cars marshalled in ordinary freight trains.  I'm more than open to further education but I think the only refinery in GWR territory in GWR days was Llandarcy, reputedly the oldest oil refinery in Britain. Traffic might well have been despatched from there to a local yard as a full trip load but then it would go forward by the appropriate train for its destination.  Most receiving depots before WWII were fairly small having space for only a handful of tank cars but the 'strategic stores built during the build up to the war mostly had sidings capable of accepting a full or part train (and might have accepted block trains in post war years?).

 

 

 

What would you like covered?

 

If Esso had no refineries in GWR territory, what would be an example of an Esso liveried oil train on GWR lines?

 

Also, I assume this is what you mean by silver oil tank: http://www.modelrailwayimports.com/product.php?PID=7413&CID=4&BID=9&TID=0&SID=0&q=

Edited September 24, 2013 by OnTheBranchline

[The Stationmaster]

If Esso had no refineries in GWR territory, what would be an example of an Esso liveried oil train on GWR lines?

 

Also, I assume this is what you mean by silver oil tank: http://www.modelrailwayimports.com/product.php?PID=7413&CID=4&BID=9&TID=0&SID=0&q=

Yes - silver tanks were painted 'silver' (no doubt aluminium in reality).

 

Esso would have distributed to any depots they might have had, or buyer's premises with GWR territory by either coastal shipping or rail but almost inevitably back in those days it would only have been the odd 2 or 3 cars at a time.  The age of the block oil train, wartime apart, didn't really arrive until the late 1950s/early '60s when the first of the modern tank cars began to appear.

[colin penfold]

If anyone is interested in a small oil facility at a GWR station look at Staines West http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/staines_west/index39.shtml

 

sorry for wandering off your excellent thread Rob

[gwrrob]

If Esso had no refineries in GWR territory, what would be an example of an Esso liveried oil train on GWR lines?

 

Also, I assume this is what you mean by silver oil tank: http://www.modelrailwayimports.com/product.php?PID=7413&CID=4&BID=9&TID=0&SID=0&q=

 

This is mine in close up and slightly different to the one in your link.

 

[OnTheBranchline]

This is mine in close up and slightly different to the one in your link.

 

Tankers6.JPG

 

Is one livery earlier than the other?

[gwrrob]

Is one livery earlier than the other?

 

Possibly.Hattons also have this new 'Esso' version to pre order but it shews ICI on the image.

 

http://www.ehattons.com/61007/Bachmann_Branchline_38_776_20_Ton_Tank_Wagon_Esso_/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

There's a mention of a Fawley to Bromford Bridge oil train in the mid 60s unusually at that time hauled by a Grange instead of BRCW Type 3.

 

Roy Hobbs Working Steam.Collett Granges & Manors book.

Edited September 24, 2013 by gwrrob

[Mikkel]

Is one livery earlier than the other?

 

I'm sure there are people who have studied that sort of thing in detail, but this page includes some examples of Esso liveries with approx. dates: http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/petrol.htm (scroll down to approx. mid-page).

Edited September 24, 2013 by Mikkel

[gwrrob]

Hi Rob those photo's of your tankers has got me thinking I need some more but I not sure what would be correct for Devon have you done any research on the subject ?

 

The only research I've done is to read through that webpage on Mikkel's link above.It says that Fina wagons are a no-no till much later than my post war period but the Esso liveries are ok along with the Mobil.I need to find a photo of an oil train in Devon ideally.It's a cracking looking train in model form if I get it correct but whether it's prototypical in the South Hams is open to debate.I could always revert to rule 1 though.Who would have thought a few photos would create such an interest.

 

The Pratts Spirit would have become Esso but will stay as I adore it's livery.

[The Great Bear]

I'm sure there are people who have studied that sort of thing in detail, but this page includes some examples of Esso liveries with approx. dates: http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/12-linind/petrol.htm (scroll down to approx. mid-page).

 

Thanks, Mikkel (and Robin), I need to bookmark this. I've steered clear of buying tank wagons for fear of a historical faux-pas - that will change.

[M.I.B]

I have rooted out 4 beige ones and a Fina that don't belong in my "end of GWR" period, so I'll Ebay those and replace with some Mobils if I can find some.

 

Thanks for the informtive links and debate.

Edited September 26, 2013 by M.I.B

[gwrrob]

I have rooted out 4 beige ones

 

 

What liveries are those then ?

 

 

Edited September 26, 2013 by gwrrob