A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[Clive Mortimore]

11 minutes ago, A Murphy said:

Just to be clear, the "small US Army tanks" above are Shermans. It's difficult to tell which mark of Sherman, but from the rear profile, those could easily be M4A4s, known by the Brits as Sherman Vs, all of which were allocated to armies other than the US. Many UK Shermans, especially in NW Europe, were Vs.

 

Alastair M

Hi Alastair

 

Looking at the rear of them I think they are Sherman IIIs (M4A2) which also were delivered to the British Army in large numbers. They do not seem to have the gap between the bogies as seen on the longer hulled Sherman Vs. What is interesting is the mix of those with sand shields and those without.

[A Murphy]

I think you could well be right Clive, it was the tracks on the first tank that threw me. It's hard to tell the distance between the bogie units sometimes without seeing them side on. The metal track shields seem to have been indiscriminately whipped off in some units and left in others or turned upside down, welded to the hull and used for stowing the necessaries of life, like buckets, bedding, boxes etc....

 

Best wishes,

 

Alastair M

[gwrrob]

I've put a weathering blog up for my warflat but here it is after tackling it this afternoon. Of course @toboldlygo will blend it all in with his airbrush.

 

[Trains&armour]

OK, let get technical . I think they are M4A4s. With this angle it's hard to tell if there's a bigger gap between the bogies. There might be, but it's impossible to be sure. The rear plate though is a better indicator.  M4A2s have a longer rear plate that reaches well below the the sponsons, while M4A4s have a short extension, reaching just below the sponsons. This short rear plate can be clearly made out on the tanks without the sandshields. Also no trace of the exhaust which would be clearly visible on a  M4A2.

 

M4A4:

 

M4A2, with the exhaust even more visible because of the deflector plate. Not all M4A2s carried these:

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Sierd

 

Could it be a mix, look at tanks 2 and 3 they have a deeper rear plate than tanks 1 and 4. Tank 3 also has what looks like an exhaust deflector plate. Are the ones with sand shields Sherman IIIs and the ones without Sherman Vs? 

[Clive Mortimore]

13 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

Going slightly OT but when I was a lad we lived on a main road in Southampton just at the top of a hill. Army traffic was relatively frequent and occasionally there were convoys of ‘Antars’ loaded with, I assume, Centurions. When Mum shouted ‘convoy!’ I would run to the front gate. What a spectacle for a five year old as they roared slowly up the hill!

Hi Trevor

 

Convoys delivering tanks etc to Marchwood for shipment to Germany?

 

I was based at Marchwood  for a short while, as a gun fitter there wasn't many guns to repair so I was mainly doing fitting and turning. I did get to play with some very interesting guns on some Centurion AVREs which were going overseas but hadn't be prepared properly for shipment. I didn't have a clue what I as doing but they were fun to play with. The RCT sergeant -major in charge of loading was happy with what I done so off they went. Nice posting but no gun work I wouldn't have been able to get my class 1 tradesman qualification so I asked for a posting. Colchester.

[Newfish]

On 22/09/2019 at 19:37, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi John

 

The Comet had a barrel clamp on the rear decking.

 

I have read that the Comet was not transported by rail. I have also read that the Centurion was the first British tank designed without the size limitations of the British loading gauge and it was to be road transported. The Comet was 10 ft wide (as were late Mks of Cromwell)  so I don't know if was able to be rail transported in most of Britain.

 

Where possible it would be tanks drive on going forward and drive off going forward. Whether that was from the front or rear of the train depended on the location. Some places the tanks came off the side of the wagons. They would do a neutral turn on the wagon so they ended up 90 degrees to it and drive off on to a loading platform.  

 

Hi Clive, I've posted this before but i'll post it again. Comet's did travel on the network. I'm in the process of detailing the old Matchbox kit go on my Warflat 

 

Jaymes

[TrevorP1]

7 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Trevor

 

Convoys delivering tanks etc to Marchwood for shipment to Germany?

 

I was based at Marchwood  for a short while, as a gun fitter there wasn't many guns to repair so I was mainly doing fitting and turning. I did get to play with some very interesting guns on some Centurion AVREs which were going overseas but hadn't be prepared properly for shipment. I didn't have a clue what I as doing but they were fun to play with. The RCT sergeant -major in charge of loading was happy with what I done so off they went. Nice posting but no gun work I wouldn't have been able to get my class 1 tradesman qualification so I asked for a posting. Colchester.

I only remember the tanks going up the hill Clive - understandable in view of the incredible noise! -  so they would have been going away from Marchwood. I’ve often wondered where all this military traffic was going. Salisbury Plain possibly, Longmoor, Bagshot?  Would have been 1960ish give or take a year or two.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Newfish said:

 

Hi Clive, I've posted this before but i'll post it again. Comet's did travel on the network. I'm in the process of detailing the old Matchbox kit go on my Warflat 

 

Jaymes

Hi Jaymes

 

I notice the caption says it is an out of gauge train so I was on the right track. Thank you for those photos.

[Newfish]

Hi Clive, I missed that bit as I was rushing to post. It's out of gauge yes. It makes for some interesting modelling.

 

kind regards

 

Jaymes 

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

on the right track

Very droll.

[Oldddudders]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Very droll.

Tanks for saying that.

[toboldlygo]

22 hours ago, gwrrob said:

I've put a weathering blog up for my warflat but here it is after tackling it this afternoon. Of course @toboldlygo will blend it all in with his airbrush.

 

 

You rang Grand Inquisitor...

[gwrrob]

In the long run I will probably not use the Cromwell but for reference here it is with the star removed and repainted in Humbrol 159 khaki drab. Incidentally, were the securing chains left in place on the wagon when not loaded.

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by gwrrob
khaki not olive drab.

[gwrrob]

Here's the comparison both with the tank as supplied and the warflat before weathering.

 

[toboldlygo]

3 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Here's the comparison both with the tank as supplied and the warflat before weathering.

 

 

Which tank is the wrong shade of Olive Drab?

 

 

 

[gwrrob]

Now I’m confused.

[TrevorP1]

21 minutes ago, toboldlygo said:

 

Which tank is the wrong shade of Olive Drab?

 

 

 

 

I'm no military modeller but I would think depend on who was using it, at what time and in which part of the world? Just like trains really!  

[gwrrob]

21 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Now I’m confused.

 

BIast, I have painted it using Humbrol 159 khaki drab which as you can see is a lot lighter than the 155 olive drab I should have used.

[Trains&armour]

20 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Sierd

 

Could it be a mix, look at tanks 2 and 3 they have a deeper rear plate than tanks 1 and 4. Tank 3 also has what looks like an exhaust deflector plate. Are the ones with sand shields Sherman IIIs and the ones without Sherman Vs? 

Hi Clive. 

Would be a neat explanation, but I don't think so. Tanks were usually shipped in batches from the same factory, making a mix of two types unlikely. Though having said that, one possibility is that both types got mixed up after being unloaded and placed in temporary storage. But I don't think there are any M4A2s on that train. Sandshields were clipped to the side of the sponsons,  making the sponsons  visually smaller and the rearplate deeper. The one tank with an  exhaust deflector plate is probably one of the early M4A4s build with this feature. Exhaust deflectors were installed starting  January 1943 . If I remember correctly, it took about 6 months from starting assembly to final delivery to the intended recipient, in this case the UK. The first few M4A4s with deflector plates would have reached the UK in about July, corresponding well with the date mentioned in the caption. (But then again, captions describing Shermans as small American tanks don't exactly inspire confidence...)

So, and now I think we've made Robin think twice before mentioning tanks ever again in ANTB.  

[A Murphy]

Rob, the colour you really want is:

 

SCC No. 15, Olive drab, applied to all vehicles from April 1944 onwards.

5 parts Humbrol 150 Forest green

5 parts Humbrol 159 Khaki drab

2 parts Humbrol  33 Matt black

 

From Mike Starmer, British Army Colours in the UK , France and NW Europe, 1936 - 45

 

It works too.......

 

I'll go away now,

 

best wishes, 

 

Alastair M

Edited September 24, 2019 by A Murphy

[bgman]

 

I have to say that I find a water tank far less aggressive and also much prettier.

 

[colin penfold]

but it wouldn't protect you from a horde of Ruskies…..

 

E Haig

[Clive Mortimore]

12 minutes ago, colin penfold said:

but it wouldn't protect you from a horde of Ruskies…..

 

E Haig

Could hide in it.

[bgman]

18 minutes ago, colin penfold said:

but it wouldn't protect you from a horde of Ruskies…..

 

E Haig

 

Strangely I've never found them to be offensive either !