A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[TrevorP1]

Re the TPO discussion. I'm late on parade as always(!) but there is a lot of good information in 'Great Western Travelling Post Offices' by J G Hosegood (Wild Swan). Lots of photos, diagrams, apparatus location descriptions etc. Well worth looking out for a copy.

[BMacdermott]

Thanks Trevor - order just placed!

 

Brian

[Mallard60022]

4 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Phil

 

The six TPO vehicles in the Penzance Postal (10.10pm) were all 'offset gangways'. Turn one, turn the lot. Easier to leave 'as is'.

 

Brian

Ah, I was just thinking of the singletons; of course a 'train' of TPOs would remain as is. Thanks. More learned.

P

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Phil

 

The six TPO vehicles in the Penzance Postal (10.10pm) were all 'offset gangways'. Turn one, turn the lot. Easier to leave 'as is'.

 

Brian

Exactly so - to turn one meant shunt it out, move to the turntable, wait to get onto the table then turn it and take it back, then finally shunt back into the train.  All of which would probably take half an hour or more depending on where theh turntable was.  However there was a turntable in the passenger yards at Old Oak and I understood from one chap who had been shunting there in the 1950s that it was occasionally used to turn postal vehicles when spares were were swapped in/out of trainsand some other stock but particularly diners and, of course, bullion vans (the latter depending on which side the doors were required to be for their next job).  

 

i'm not aware of there being ar turntable in any other Western passenger yard although most were within easy reach of running line triangles (even more faffing about than using a turntable but ok for turning a complete train).  Turning a complete train at the London end was simplicity itself as all an ECS from Paddington had to do was 'go round Greenford' and then arrive at Old Oak from the Park Royal direction and propel back into the yard.  Trains could also be turned in a similar manner at Bristol by leaving Temple Meads at the London end when heading for Malago Vale instead of heading straight out of the west end of the station although I don't know if it was done there as frequently as at the London end.

[Mulgabill]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Exactly so - to turn one meant shunt it out, move to the turntable, wait to get onto the table then turn it and take it back, then finally shunt back into the train.  All of which would probably take half an hour or more depending on where theh turntable was.  However there was a turntable in the passenger yards at Old Oak and I understood from one chap who had been shunting there in the 1950s that it was occasionally used to turn postal vehicles when spares were were swapped in/out of trainsand some other stock but particularly diners and, of course, bullion vans (the latter depending on which side the doors were required to be for their next job).  

 

i'm not aware of there being ar turntable in any other Western passenger yard although most were within easy reach of running line triangles (even more faffing about than using a turntable but ok for turning a complete train).  Turning a complete train at the London end was simplicity itself as all an ECS from Paddington had to do was 'go round Greenford' and then arrive at Old Oak from the Park Royal direction and propel back into the yard.  Trains could also be turned in a similar manner at Bristol by leaving Temple Meads at the London end when heading for Malago Vale instead of heading straight out of the west end of the station although I don't know if it was done there as frequently as at the London end.

 

I know that what I refer to, is not of GW ancestry, and therefore apologise.

 

But I'm pretty sure I've read that a (MR/LMs/BR) Postal train was worked, daily from St Phillips (Bristol) CS, up Fishponds bank, and round Mangotsfield triangle, to turn the whole train.

 

TONY

Edited July 6, 2021 by Mulgabill

[The Stationmaster]

4 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

 

I know that what I refer to, is not of GW ancestry, and therefore apologise.

 

But I'm pretty sure I've read that a (MR/LMs/BR) Postal train was worked, daily from St Phillips (Bristol) CS, up Fishponds bank, and round Mangotsfield triangle, to turn the whole train.

 

TONY

I wonder where any lineside apparatus was or if there was some other reason for turning it?  There was no mail apparatus listed between Birmingham and Bristol in 1937 (and in fact none at all on the Midland Division of the LMS at that time) and none between Barnt Green and Bristol in 1960 so it really depends where any TPOs on the train were coming from.  But  it could, I suppose, just as readily have been turned for portion working reasons.

[Clive Mortimore]

57 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I wonder where any lineside apparatus was or if there was some other reason for turning it?  There was no mail apparatus listed between Birmingham and Bristol in 1937 (and in fact none at all on the Midland Division of the LMS at that time) and none between Barnt Green and Bristol in 1960 so it really depends where any TPOs on the train were coming from.  But  it could, I suppose, just as readily have been turned for portion working reasons.

Hi Mike

 

Could it have been turned so the doors on the sorting van were the same side as the platforms of the stations it stopped at.

[BMacdermott]

00 GWR Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.4: Fruit, Fish, Milk & Meat

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to the fourth in our series of GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls. I am running them here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf.

 

You will find ‘an indication’ of what we are looking at via the suggested example diagrams in parentheses. We simply cannot list every incarnation! The makers are tending to ‘tool up’ to cover as many variants as are commercially viable. For us, the mantra is: If it looks like a Milk Tank Wagon, it probably is a Milk Tank, or a member of the same family.

 

In order to generate some debate – and some ‘learning opportunities’ – please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selections. I copy all ‘Comments Received’ in order of receipt – but with names removed – and post them as a PDF with the Results.

 

Please note that we do not welcome comments that act as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’!

 

Here’s what to do…

1 You may vote for any or all of the items listed plus suggestions at 13 (if you so wish).

2 They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’.

3 Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7 – with comments and explanations following. My posting which follows should serve as an example.

4 If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

Banana & Fruit 

1  Banana Van (Diag.Y4 of 1922)

2  Fruit Van (Diag.Y3 of 1911)

3  Fruit Van – Fruit C, 22ft long (Diag.Y9 of 1937)

 

Fish

4   Fish Van (eg Diag.V13, later S2)

5   Fish Van – Bloater (eg Diags.S8 & S9 of 1916)

6   Fish Van – Insixfish 6-wheel (Diag.S13 of 1948)

7   Fish Wagon – Tadpole 8-wheel (eg Diag.S2)

 

Milk

8   Milk Tank Wagon – 6-wheel, twin tank (Diag.O41 of 1935 & Diag.O50 of 1940)

9   Milk Tank Wagon – 6-wheel, ladders/filler at one end (eg Diags.O57 of 1946 & O60 of 1950)

10 Milk Tank Truck – 6-wheel with Dyson Milk Road Trailer Load (eg Diags.O37, O48, O49, 1932-47)

 

Meat & Cattle

11 Meat Van – Mica White/Grey (eg Diags.X1/X2 of 1889/1897 & Diag.X4 of 1906)

12 Special Cattle Van – Beetle C (Diags.W7, W13, W14, W17 of 1910-1953)

 

13 Your suggestions of vehicles not listed in the above groups

You may suggest one vehicle only in any or all of the four headings.

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box.

 

You have until 17.00 on Saturday 10 July. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Sunday 11 July.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

My votes here are:

* Milk Tank Wagon – 6-wheel, twin tank

* Milk Tank Wagon – 6-wheel, ladders/filler at one end

* Milk Tank Truck – 6-wheel with Dyson Milk Road Trailer Load

* Meat Van – Mica White/Grey 

 

We already have Milk Tank Wagons by Dapol and Hornby (the latter being an old Lima-tooled tank on a new Hornby chassis from 2007). The twin tank and ladders/filler at one end versions would make a welcome alternative design.

 

The Milk Tank Truck with Road Trailer would add that touch of realism that many ‘main line’ model milk trains could use.

 

I have seen photos of the Micas well into the late 1950s, so would like that one for my layout.

 

I haven’t – yet – voted for the Insixfish. Can anyone tell me of a photo of one in any fish trains through Oxford or Newton Abbot? That would clinch my vote!

 

Finally, for a suggestion, some may like the Palethorpes 6-wheel Sausage Vans, Nos.W2801W & W2802W of Diag.O47 – although they do have somewhat restricted use.

 

Brian

 

[The Fatadder]

For me this is a simple one 8, 9, 10

 

The existing RTR models are all awful, and with the loss / semi loss of the Dave Geen range, there arnt even kits available to fill the gaps.  Would love to be able to replace the Hornby (ex Lima) and Dapol tanks with something of a much higher quality.  The "Dyson" would fulfil a big hole in my current formation (although at least for that there is a kit available). 

 

I dont think there is much call for Mica in South Devon, while for the several Bloater that I will eventually end up needing I would say I am probably more likely to go down the Parkside route than a RTR model.

[St Enodoc]

6, 11.

[Coach bogie]

23 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

wasted effort?  You only need one coach with equipment on the northern side of the tracks given fewer collections / drops on the East bound TPO than the west bound,  so it was easier to have a single coach with nets/ equipment on both sides (L23) than to have to turn 6 coaches at each destination.  (The offset corridors meaning the whole rake would need changing) 

There were others as well. The 70ft L14 was in regular use as well as a spare with net on the offside only. Pre Collett the Clerestory L15 had nets both sides.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[petrox]

My votes are for 3 (Fruit C) and 9 (Milk tank wagon).

 

Pete

[Mallard60022]

Apologies for not voting as there are none in this pole that I would need. However I am happy to add my vote to the most popular choice so as to enhance the GWR fans' chances of getting one done.

P

[Limpley Stoker]

8 9 12  for me please.

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Mike

 

Could it have been turned so the doors on the sorting van were the same side as the platforms of the stations it stopped at.

Yes Clive, I suspect it could well have been for that sort of reason (or to keep any portions in a particular as I mentioned) but I'm reasonably sure it didn't have much to do with lineside mail apparatus unless it had somewhere picked up a TPO that worked along the WCML.

[FarrMan]

I'll vote for 1, 2, 5, 7, 11, 12. The others are too early or too late for 1929.

 

Lloyd

[Mallard60022]

SR CBA with all that pick up stuff as far as I am aware, thank goodness!! They had a set of PO vans (Green!) that worked the Bournemouth route I think? WOEML just used excellent Van Trains or walloped stuff into the myriad numbers of Brakes!  Most postals for the West from London, went out of Paddington anyway. Something to do with the GPO/Royal Mail Underground system? I don't know .

P

[BMacdermott]

42 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Apologies for not voting as there are none in this pole that I would need. However I am happy to add my vote to the most popular choice so as to enhance the GWR fans' chances of getting one done.

P

Thanks Phil - but the Guidelines say as extracted below:

 

Brian

 

2 They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’.

[BMacdermott]

11 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

SR CBA with all that pick up stuff as far as I am aware, thank goodness!! They had a set of PO vans (Green!) that worked the Bournemouth route I think?

 

Hello Phil

 

Dorchester PO working for 1959 attached. Sorry to be 'off topic' for GWR!

 

Brian

 

[BMacdermott]

34 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Yes Clive, I suspect it could well have been for that sort of reason (or to keep any portions in a particular as I mentioned) but I'm reasonably sure it didn't have much to do with lineside mail apparatus unless it had somewhere picked up a TPO that worked along the WCML.

 

Hello Mike Stationmaster, Clive and Mike Wiltshire

 

I have requested any info on this from friends who were in the Mangotsfield Railway Circle.

 

Brian

[TrevorP1]

For any manufacturer a decent milk tank is an empty football stadium, let alone an open goal! The type with the trailer load would be interesting - and I would buy one - but I think a tank wagon has greater 'manufacturer appeal'. They would likely be over £30 a pop but over a period of time I would buy several. 

 

Similarly an 'ordinary' cattle wagon would be another wallet emptying item. So...

 

Definitely multiple purchases:

• 8   Milk Tank Wagon – 6-wheel, twin tank Diag.O41/ Diag. O50 
• 9   Milk Tank Wagon – 6-wheel, ladders/filler at one end Diags. O57  & O60 
• Choice 13 -  W12 Cattle wagon

I would have one or two of:

• 10  Milk Tank Truck – 6-wheel with Dyson Milk Road Trailer Load.

 

I'd buy a Mica or an Insixfish but only because they were there, so I'd rather focus my votes on the above.

 

Finally, I hope someone from Accurascale is reading this!

[Coach bogie]

8 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Phil

 

Dorchester PO working for 1959 attached. Sorry to be 'off topic' for GWR!

 

Brian

 

in BR days ex GWR TPO vans were allocated to the Southern Region with nets removed

 

Mike Wiltshire

[CoombeTown]

My choices are 3,8,9,10.

 

The Fruit C for variety in the world of short vans.

 

8,9 & 10 as would be ideal for a short milk train with plenty of variety. Although I think 10 is more likely from Oxford than one of the others.

I would agree with Trevor, a Mica would be nice but isn't a must.

[The Stationmaster]

Latest Poll - a difficult one I suspect as our preferences are going to heavily reflect the period we are interested in/model and thus what we would buy.

 

6, 11, 12     6 & 12 Are both very strong definites for me  - they fit 'era' wise and 6 in particular lasted into the early 1960s as tail traffic on Class 1 trains.  

                   11 might be better in Tevan form for me.

 

13  I am torn between a Fruit D (more useful to me that a Fruit C)  or a Diagram DD4 Cordon.    

Brian may choose whichever one he wishes to add to any preponderance of votes coming from others.

Edited July 7, 2021 by The Stationmaster