RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 15 hours ago, 2ManySpams said: Sheep would be fine dropped from that height though, yes? If there was a dip in the dock/platform that would be OK. P 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 19 hours ago, gwrrob said: Feel free to celebrate the fact by posting some more images chum. I'm sure some people would be interested in your jig for the roof tresses. I'll post a few more when the Forum is a bit more stable, has been falling over for me all morning. 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bogie Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 On 09/08/2021 at 16:25, 2ManySpams said: Shock horror, I've done some modelling... Having never seen a real one I think it looks great. That is a bit of a strange compliment I confess Please take it as a compliment though. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 Hello everyone As I have an unexpectedly busy day tomorrow, I will be uploading the Toplights Mini-Poll shortly. Brian 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.9: The Case for a Select Few Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights Hello everyone Welcome to the ninth in our series of GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls. I am running them here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf. The Toplights encompassed a multitude of diagrams with many facets and ‘incarnations’ making them a vexed modelling subject. We gather that a manufacturer ‘had them on their radar’ but dropped out. However, this Mini-Poll aims to get a select few of these highly popular and attractive coaches back on the agenda. When you have read our case, all you need to do at the end is to vote either in favour or against! We believe this is the only way to come to a pragmatic conclusion. It worked well with the TPO selection. Your Mini-Poll Team suggests 56ft 11¼in Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights: Diag.C32 Third Diag.D56 Brake Third Diag.E98 Composite Diag.K22 Passenger Brake Van Although a First and Brake Compo would be desirable, all Toplight Gangwayed Firsts were 70ft long and there wasn’t a steel panelled BCK of our suggested length. (We deal with Catering in a future Mini-Poll.) Our reasoning for the four suggested types is… Third to Diag.C32: Believed to have had the non-adjustable angle steel trusses. Had 9ft fishbelly bogies, but some had different bogies later (eg W2578W with 9ft American). No.3919 lasted to 1960. Some went to Camping Coaches and Departmental Stock later, giving potential for modellers to adapt coaches or for a manufacturer to ‘extend the range’. Crucially, there is a beautifully preserved Diag.C32 example at SVR (with others elsewhere). Link: https://www.svrwiki.com/GWR_3930_Full_Third Brake Third to Diag.D56: Lot 1247 believed to have had the non-adjustable angle steel trusses. Had 9ft fishbelly bogies. No.3773 lasted to November 1960 and No.3780 until June 1961. Link: http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/Image-Pages/Image_3mm_GWR_Coach2.htm Composite to Diag.E98: Sadly, had adjustable Multi-bar truss underframe, but see Rationale for the selection later. Had 9ft fishbelly bogies. Only six examples built, but that shouldn’t preclude them – there are precedents of one in the model world! No.6944 lasted to 1958. Link: https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/gwr/toplight-stock/hA0EDDCCA#ha0eddcca Passenger Brake Van to Diag.K22 Had non-adjustable angle steel trusses. Sadly, ran on 9ft American equalised bogies, but see Rationale for the selection later. The GWR is the only member of the Big Four not having at least one RTR Passenger Brake Van available, so the K22 would plug a wide gap. Lasted to 1962, which is a bonus point in favour of the bogies. Has been High Polling in The 00 Wishlist Polls since 2013. Examples preserved on the SVR; No.261 with 9ft American bogies, but not on No.1145. Link: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GWR_diagram_K22_brake_1145_at_Bewdley.JPG Rationale for the selection: We believe modellers will accept a compromise. They’d rather have something ‘not dead right’ as opposed to ‘nothing at all’. This is borne out by discussions on RMweb threads and what has recently been made, such as the generic pre-Grouping coaches from Hattons and Hornby etc or locos in ‘faux’ liveries. However, the case for the K22 9ft American bogie and different underframe for the Composite has a precedent; Hornby makes different underframe and bogie types on the Coronation Scot stock. And Hornby compromised to produce GWR Hawksworths in ‘faux’ liveries. Why? High public demand! The stock has the advantages of being pretty much a ‘go anywhere’ type and of looking very different to the Bachmann and Hornby Colletts. Many modellers and collectors will surely succumb to the stock’s ‘livery eye appeal’. The superb Diag.C32 Third at the SVR is a case in point. It will surely help sales and – possibly – the SVR itself. Other preserved examples exist. We have started the liveries (following) at 1927/8 as a good average. It would have taken the GWR and BR a number of years to repaint all coaching stock so there will be useful time-frame overlaps. Supporting notes for the selection: There are plenty of suitable RTR locos already available to haul the Toplights. Hornby seem to want four livery possibilities for coach ranges – the Toplights offer that. In the annual 00 Wishlist Polls since 2013, the Toplights have not only been the most-wanted GWR passenger stock but also the most wanted non-BR stock. They have always been in The Top 20. Most outside-framed Diag.O11 Siphon Gs had the 9ft American bogie and some Diag.O22 had them originally. Siphon Gs Diag.O33 No.2070 and Diag.O62 No.1332 had them, but it is not known if these were fitted originally or were replacements. Both the inside- and outside-framed Siphon Gs have always been High Polling or Top 50. The Siphon H also had these 9ft bogies, extending their potential value. Another High Polling type. Modeller Time-frames (survey on ANTB thread) The left hand column shows the number of respondents to each. From this, we can see that the ‘optimum period’ is exactly right for the liveries which follow. A number of respondents indicated that they might buy from other periods depending on what stock was available. 19 1923-1938 Includes one respondent modelling 1923-1927; two 1929 only; and one 1936 only. 17 1956-1960s Includes one respondent modelling 1956 only; one 1957 only; and one 1959 only. 12 1946-1955 Includes one respondent modelling 1947 only; one 1947/8 only; and one 1950 only. 7 1939-1945 2 1900-1922 Includes one respondent modelling only the Barry Railway. Example choices of liveries based on the above: 1927/8-1934 Brown & Cream separated by single Black line, or Black & Gold lines with GWR Twin Cities crest. 1934-1939 'Shirtbutton' monogram. In later years some coaches and Passenger Brake Vans were painted in all over Brown. 1947 Hawksworth style lined Brown & Cream with sans serif lettering, Orange or coloured crest. 1949 BR Crimson & Cream, with left hand position Wxxxx numbers. 1951 BR Crimson & Cream, with right hand position numbers with W suffix. Head to the ballot box now! Vote either 1 or 2 below. 1 I support the Mini-Poll Team’s case for Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplight Thirds, Brake Thirds and Compos as well as the K22 Passenger Brake Van. 2 I do not support the Mini-Poll Team’s case and suggest the following… We suggest no more than four items with reasons. Less than 200 words please, as per our list! You have until 1700 on Saturday 14 August, with Results expected on Sunday 15 August. I will acknowledge receipt of your vote by the ‘Thx’ button. You can also vote by PM direct to me. Brian (on behalf of John, Chris & Ian) (Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from Brian, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.) Edited August 10, 2021 by BMacdermott Spacings. 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Hi I vote 1. I fully agree that something is better than nothing and to make a range commercially viable you'd have to make compromises. I'd either pick prototypes that didn't get the toplights plated over in BR days or I'm sure a clever tooling could manage some plating over for example. David 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 Hello everyone I forgot to say that your Mini-Poll Team would buy examples of all the stock listed, often in multiples - so we have voted 1 (in favour). Brian 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted August 10, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 A real no brainer for me Brian. I vote 1 please and fully support the team's case and thank you for going to the trouble of doing this poll. 2 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lewis Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 1. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 Toplight Poll. 1 please Brian. Thank you for doing the hard work for us in selecting possibilities. I would likely purchase at least one of each type in either of the BR liveries. Over time I would probably take another third and brake third but definitely a couple of the passenger brake vans. In fact if cash was tight at the time of release I would prioritise the passenger brake vans. Although I have no real use for one, a camping coach sounds an attractive proposition - livery options here as well. I appreciate these were moved en-masse but I’m sure a suitable subsection of Rule 1 could be bought into play to enable it to be attached to a parcels or ECS working. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 Vote 1 without any hesitation at all. Also that Hawksworth all First in Maroon is now on general offer as Rob don't need it. Free to a good home where it will get used rather than sit in a box for ever. Phil 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, BMacdermott said: Hello everyone As I have an unexpectedly busy day tomorrow, I will be uploading the Toplights Mini-Poll shortly. Brian You brave man. I get more emails on toplight history especially BR than any other enquiry. I have just been painting this one in the sunny North Yorkshire weather - a D52. Well there is no TV today as the local Bilsdale transmitter is on fire Good luck Mike Wiltshire Edited August 10, 2021 by Coach bogie 10 1 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 The stock has the advantages of being pretty much a ‘go anywhere’ type and of looking very different to the Bachmann and Hornby Colletts The go anywhere toplights were the brake composites which were used all over the country as through coaches on the cross country routes. For example there is an Eric Tracy shot behind a streamlined coronation out of Liverpool at the head of a train of LMS stock. Mike Wiltshire 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 Hello Mike It would probably have read better as: ...'a go anywhere type on the GWR system'... It's not always possible to get the full story into just a few bullet points. Brian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 Hello everyone Below is a K22 photo supplied by John Lewis. For reasons unknown, I couldn't get it to load 'into the case'. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Hello Brian I will vote - 1 - and fully support your chosen option. This is a very reasonable and sensible compromise. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrox Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Re. latest poll - definitely 1 (especially the K22) Thanks. Pete 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoombeTown Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Has to be 1. Many thanks Brian and the team, it's a very well thought out pitch and I think any manufacturer would be mad to overlook it. I want to model Blue Anchor as my next layout, so Camping Coaches are a must, with 2 being present throughout the 50s, so that's two TKs for me. I can also picture a 45xx with a single D.56 pulling into Coombe Town, so another sale down that route. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenL Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 It's a definite 1 from me too - it's a very clever and compelling case and I'd be absolutely delighted to have the possibility of buying at least one of each. Indeed, a Toplight corridor third and Toplight brake third are my two most-needed items of stock, and I'd easily find a home for a Toplight composite and K22 to keep them company! Huge thanks to Brian, Robin and the team for coming up with this ingenious proposal. All the best, Ben 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 Many thanks Ben (and all voters so far) Of course, the 'devil is in the detail' and we don't underestimate that!! Brian 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 I’m happy with option 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Option 1. This is the only way Toplights will get done - someone needs to choose a representative sample that is viable, which you have done, and say here is what you get. Worse case is we get a selection of 4 Toplights to use. Best case (perhaps unlikely) is that they sell so well that it makes further coaches viable. So thanks for doing the work to come up with the 4 and present it. 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2021 Option 1. Just to keep Mr Robin Sir happy 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike_Walker Posted August 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2021 Option 1 and fully agree with your proposal. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 4 hours ago, BMacdermott said: Hello everyone Below is a K22 photo supplied by John Lewis. For reasons unknown, I couldn't get it to load 'into the case'. Brian Here is one of the views in my collection. Note BR days with little/no alterations. Mike Wiltshire 10 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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