A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[88C]

Since the poll this week has involved 70' coaches I decided to find my only 70' coach.

I have no idea how old it is but it is a MAJ kit, the type with printed overlays for the sides. Looking through my copy of Russell's book I think it may be Diag E111, I'm no coach expert so don't take my word for it.

 

By the way, the cottages in the background are work in progress and the subsidence will be corrected when they are finished.

 

Brian

[County of Yorkshire]

Hi Brian and team.

 

I'd argue that this is an even more important poll than the Toplight one, as the range of coaching stock in this poll span almost 50 years and most coach styles are needed to accurately model the GWR in its 1920's to 1930's heyday. 

 

As I model the GWR immediately post-war (1945 to 1947) in theory I could justify any of the above; even Clerestories hung on carrying passengers in penny numbers until about 1950. However, it would be unwise to vote for all types as I think it would provide too a diffuse selection for the manufacturers.

 

In that case - and it's head over heart here - I would buy the following RTR and thus vote accordingly:

 

2

3

4

5

9

10

11

 

If absolutely pushed I would say that 11 - Sunshine coaches are vital to have in RTR to modern standards, closely followed by 9 - bow ended general service coaches of 1930-33 (as someone said, the C67 in this coaching range was the fourth most produced TK of the GWR).

 

I just think that clerestories are too niche and will probably fall prey to a "generic" release a la the 4 & 6 wheel Genesis/Hornby coaches. In terms of the special service stock of Cornish Riviera, Super Saloons and Centenery stock, again they're too niche, and as they weren't many of them, if you really want them, buy kits and build them - or even pay someone to make them for you!

 

The coach ranges I've voted for were general service vehicles and as such I would buy well into double figures of them if ever made RTR. Imagine an express of 70 footers behind a King or Castle! Cor!

 

Cheers.

 

CoY

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by County of Yorkshire

[Bazza]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for another poll and I hope you get to see some take-up by the manufacturers. My votes go to 9 and 11.

 

The ex Mainline Sunshines have had a good run but could do with a retool, and the C67 etc fleet are significantly different from the Hornby Colletts, on the corridor side anyway. 70 footers will be problematical for many existing layouts with inadequate clearances on bends, especially those with platforms, and I agree that the Ocean Saloons etc are too niche but, against that, Pullman coaches seem to sell well.

Bazza

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Bazza said:

Hi Brian,

Thanks for another poll and I hope you get to see some take-up by the manufacturers. My votes go to 9 and 11.

 

The ex Mainline Sunshines have had a good run but could do with a retool, and the C67 etc fleet are significantly different from the Hornby Colletts, on the corridor side anyway. 70 footers will be problematical for many existing layouts with inadequate clearances on bends, especially those with platforms, and I agree that the Ocean Saloons etc are too niche but, against that, Pullman coaches seem to sell well.

Bazza

 

 

I have a strange feeling that Ocean Saloons would sell very well but - like Pullmans - for the totally illogical (to many of us) reason that they are something special and different from 'ordinary' coaches.  Definitely Hornby or Rapido territory in my view.  

 

BTW I can claim a very slight and comfortable association with them as a loose(ned) and retrimmed chair from one of them was at one time my official office chair;  I wonder what happened to it?

[gwrrob]

A final few for today of 3005.

 

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

BTW I can claim a very slight and comfortable association with them as a loose(ned) and retrimmed chair from one of them was at one time my official office chair;  I wonder what happened to it?

At one time my office chair was a Pullman chair. Very comfy it was too.

[Coach bogie]

13 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I have a strange feeling that Ocean Saloons would sell very well but - like Pullmans - for the totally illogical (to many of us) reason that they are something special and different from 'ordinary' coaches.  Definitely Hornby or Rapido territory in my view.  

 

 

I agree, I do feel the Ocean Saloons would sell well. My non GWR friends all have their 'funny' trains. I have a a SR livery Merchant Navy with a full set of Pullmans for my 1930's GWR layout. I have still not found the excuse for the Hush Hush on the Silver Jubilee or the German pacific that appear when running  my 'funny' trains. I can see many non GWR modelers buying a full set.

 

I new someone who bought a full set of kit built Oceans at auction. (no longer with us, sadly) His challenge to run a full trains was, unlike the Pullmans where you can buy a full train, including the brakes, off the shelf, he had to source the other coaches, brakes, luggage vans etc that was in a boat train.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[BMacdermott]

Results – GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.10: Gangwayed Stock (exc Sleepers & Catering)

 

Hello everyone

 

Many thanks to the 35 voters who took part. The number of votes to each item is shown in the left hand column and Comments Received are appended on a PDF as usual. Probably the most comments we have ever had!

 

Please note that the results reflect the views of those who voted here and may not necessarily reflect those of the wider modelling community. 

 

High Polling

26        Collett 60ft 11¼in (9ft wide) ‘Large Window’/‘Sunshine’ Coaches (1936-1943)

19        Collett 61ft 4½in (9ft & 9ft 3in wide) Bow Ended General Service Coaches (1930-1933)

19        Collett 60ft (9ft wide) Excursion Coaches (1935)

 

Middle Polling

14        Dean Gangwayed Clerestory Coaches (1892-1904)

12        Collett 61ft 4½in (9ft 5¾in wide) Cornish Riviera etc Coaches (1929-1930)

12        Collett 61ft 4½in (9ft 7in wide) ‘Centenary’ Coaches (1935)

 

Low Polling

8          Churchward 70ft Coaches ‘Concertina’ (1906-1907)

8          Churchward 70ft Coaches ‘Toplight’ (1908-1922)

8          Collett 61ft 4½in (9ft 7in wide) ‘Super Saloons’ (1931)

7          Churchward 70ft Coaches ‘Dreadnought’ (1904-1905)

7          Collett 70ft Coaches ‘South Wales’ (1923-1924)

 

Your suggestions of any Gangwayed Stock not listed.

3          Flat ended 57ft stock of 1933-35. 

 

We will be back on Wednesday 25 August – or possibly slightly sooner – with Mini-Poll No.11: GWR Dining Cars. It will be biggest we have run for so few items! Expect some lively debates!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

 

GWR Mini-Poll No.10 Gangwayed Stock Comments Received.pdf

[gwrrob]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

Results – GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.10: Gangwayed Stock (exc Sleepers & Catering)

Many thanks to the 35 voters who took part. 

 

GWR Mini-Poll No.10 Gangwayed Stock Comments Received.pdf 318.15 kB · 2 downloads

 

Many thanks too from me on an excellent turnout on the latest poll.

[BMacdermott]

16 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I have a strange feeling that Ocean Saloons would sell very well but - like Pullmans - for the totally illogical (to many of us) reason that they are something special and different from 'ordinary' coaches.  Definitely Hornby or Rapido territory in my view.  

 

Hello Mike (and others who commented on the same theme)

 

In conversations with Simon Kohler, we have often discussed that 'people like us' (on this thread) are much fewer in number than those who simply 'like model trains'.

 

Back in the 'good old days' of the original MREmag, I had a very good friend in Australia. We came from polar opposites of our modelling philosophies but fully understood each other's rationale.

 

As you know, I run my model railway very much towards '1950s/1960s prototype'. He was more interested in the aesthetics of models (trains that is!) and happily ran an LMS livery Patriot hauling Mk3 coaches with probably a couple of disparate vans attached - all under OHLE!

 

Brian

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Back in the 'good old days' of the original MREmag, I had a very good friend in Australia. We came from polar opposites of our modelling philosophies but fully understood each other's rationale.

 

As you know, I run my model railway very much towards '1950s/1960s prototype'. He was more interested in the aesthetics of models (trains that is!) and happily ran an LMS livery Patriot hauling Mk3 coaches with probably a couple of disparate vans attached - all under OHLE!

For the avoidance of doubt, that was not me.

[The Stationmaster]

2 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

For the avoidance of doubt, that was not me.

And you have the photos to prove it

[Coach bogie]

I can talk. I have just been in the railway room, and my son, who is suppose to be packing for university, was running a 10 car voyager, a full Coronation set was in the loop whilst I threw a few switches to run a Bulldog on three coach train of clerestories.

 

Good old having fun without getting too serious

 

Mike Wiltshire

[BMacdermott]

Advance Notice - GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.11: Dining Cars

 

 

As the next Mini-Poll has a lot of content - although only a small number of items to vote upon - I have agreed with Rob that we will start tomorrow (Tuesday 24 August) and run until the later cut-off time of midnight on the later cut-off date of Monday 30 August.

 

Hopefully, this might give anyone returning from holiday on Bank Holiday Monday a little more time to join in. Results are expected on Tuesday 31 August.

 

Get ready for a sumptuous six-course dining feast, covered in chocolate & cream!

 

Brian 

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Of interest to some ( but maybe not all) ANTB devotees will be the news hot off the press from RoS that the Kerosene Castles have arrived at Rotterdam and should be with us early September.  Just saying……

 

 

 

[gwrrob]

4 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Get ready for a sumptuous six-course dining feast, covered in chocolate & cream!

 

 

Another excuse to run my H57 then.

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Rob

 

Lovely model!

 

You will all have to wait until tomorrow to see if Diag.H57 is on the list!

 

Brian

[M.I.B]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

 

 

You will all have to wait until tomorrow to see if Diag.H57 is on the list!

 

 

 Has to be on the list really  BUT

 

with a half finished one needing interior and paint, I'm rather hoping  that something else ends up being put out in RTR...

 

 

on the subject of railway furniture raised earlier - I have the roll fronted cabinet from the "Train Officer's Quarters" of the British Military Train (Berlin) and some shelving too.  I had the pleasure of being "Train Officer" on a couple of occasions.  Tales of the "metre high club" will have to wait...

[M.I.B]

5 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 the Kerosene Castles have arrived 

 

 

Is this the beginning of the end of steam on ANTB?       ):   

 

It's bad enough when the dark red carriages appear, but diesels............

[gwrrob]

36 minutes ago, M.I.B said:

 

Is this the beginning of the end of steam on ANTB?       ):   

 but diesels............

 

Some might say there's room for both.

 

[57xx]

On 14/08/2021 at 17:13, BMacdermott said:

Results - GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.9:                                   

The Case for a Select Few Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights                                                  

 

Hello everyone

 

I am delighted to say that all 36 respondents voted ‘in favour’ of our suggestions of…

 

56ft 11¼in Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights:

• Diag.C32 Third
• Diag.D56 Brake Third
• Diag.E98 Composite
• Diag.K22 Passenger Brake Van

Caveats

• 3 voters would prefer earlier than our suggested 1927/8 liveries onwards
• 2 voters said they might not buy the K22
• 1 voter said they might buy just the K22
• 1 voter said they would like a BCK as well (but that would mean an additional underframe size)

We will send the Case Notes, Results and Comments Received to at least three manufacturers.

 

However, as I am ‘ahead of schedule’ with Results publication, I will hold off sending until Monday so that I can add any relevant comments you may have been now and early Monday.

 

Brian (on behalf of John, Chris & Ian)

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from Brian, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

 

 

GWR Mini-Poll No.9 The Case for a Select Few Steel Panelled Gangwayed Toplights Comments Received.pdf 122.33 kB · 15 downloads

 

Rollocks, missed this one, I dip in and out of here too infrequently. Safe to say if I had got in in time, it would be 37.  As you know I've always said, just make the decision what ones to make and people will buy, even the ones who strawman that you'd never be able to make all the variations available.

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, M.I.B said:

 

Is this the beginning of the end of steam on ANTB?       ):   

 

It's bad enough when the dark red carriages appear, but diesels............

Diesels ?  What diesels ? 

[BMacdermott]

GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.11: Dining Cars

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to the eleventh in our series of GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls. I am running them here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf. We also extend a warm welcome to Mike Wiltshire (aka Coach bogie) to the team for this Dining Car Mini-Poll only.

 

We have discounted many of the GWR Dining Cars as being too long for many, too few vehicles in some cases or having a complicated structural history. Some may be surprised that we have omitted the Hornby Diag.H33 Compo Diner. We have instead listed Diag.H25 – it has the same design body sides as the H33 and is, in effect, a flat end version of it.

 

Crucially, the H25 ran in BR Chocolate & Cream whereas H33 never did. The Hornby Dublo Restaurant Car of 1957 was clearly based on the H25 design.

 

We have given you six suggestions with bullet point notes, as we did with the ‘Toplights'. We feel this will give a more ‘rounded result’ with everyone ‘singing from the same sheet’.

 

In order to generate some debate – and some ‘learning opportunities’ – please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selections. I copy all ‘Comments Received’ in order of receipt – but with names removed – and post them as a PDF with the Results.

 

Please note that we do not welcome comments that act as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’!

 

Here’s what to do…

1. You may vote for any or all of the items plus your preferences at 7 and/or 8 plus suggestions at 9 (if you so wish).

2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’.

3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 1, 3 & 6 – with comments and explanations following. My posting which follows should serve as an example.

4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

1 Diag.H16 Unclassed Diner

57ft x 9ft. Six vehicles. Nos.9546 to 9551. ‘Toplight’ series. Kitchen at one end. Lifespan: 1908-1955/60.

• As built, they looked rather like ordinary compartment stock. Each seating bay had a droplight and a pair of quarterlights.
• Originally had 9ft American bogies under the kitchen end and 8ft ones under the other, the latter quickly changed to 9ft American in 1909, then 9ft ‘heavy’ bogies in the mid-1920s.
• Had flat bars trussing, as did the early ‘Toplights’. In effect, a Bars 1 ‘Toplight’…without toplights!
• 1938 GWR document shows No.9540 Minehead-Paddington; No.9547 Kingswear-Wolverhampton; No.9548 Minehead-Paddington; No.9550 Ilfracombe-Paddington.
• In 1938/9, they were all given effectively new steel panelled sides with large windows, making them now look more ‘restaurant’ than ‘passenger’.
• They spent WWII as Kitchen Cars in Ambulance trains.
• After returning to ordinary service, they were all fitted with Pullman gangway adaptors (but maybe not to No.9549). No.9551 didn’t get them until November 1957!
• No.9550 was known to have run in Chocolate & Cream – and was possibly in The Cambrian Coast Express c.1957. No.9551 was photographed by RC Riley in Lined Maroon in November 1957.

Link: https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/gwr/other/hA86FB99A#ha86fb99a

 

2 Diag.H25 Compo Diner

57ft x 8ft 6in. Six vehicles. Nos.9562-9567. Flat ended. Kitchen in centre. Lifespan: 1923/24-1959/61

• Narrow width means pretty much ‘go anywhere’.
• They were originally fitted with 9ft 'heavy' bogies, but Nos.9563/4/6 are recorded as being fitted with Collett 7ft bogies in 1928-9 (same as on Hornby Colletts).
• 1938 GWR document shows No.9567 booked Wolverhampton-Paignton ECS; Paignton-Newton Abbot; Newton Abbot-Exeter; Exeter-Paignton; Paignton-Birmingham.
• During WWII, they were formed in Casualty Evacuation and Ambulance trains.
• All but No.9565 had new interiors post-1945. Hampton scheme.
• In 1953/4, Nos.9562/4/5/7 fitted with gangway adaptors.
• 1957 BR document notes No.9563 in 12.05pm Friday Empty Diners Paddington-Newquay
• Ran in BR Chocolate & Cream, but No.9566 was noted Maroon (1957).
• No.9563 noted in the Cambrian Coast Express late 1957; No.9566 in The Cornishman (1958).

Link: https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/carriage/w29ak/

 

3 Diag.H38 Compo Diner

61ft 4½in x 9ft. Ten vehicles. Nos.9601-9610. Bow ended. Kitchen at one end. Lifespan: 1931-1962.

• 1938 GWR document shows No.9602 Kingswear-Manchester; No.9605 Kingswear-Manchester; No.9608 Paignton-Manchester.
• Ran on 9ft ‘heavy’ bogies.
• The only outwardly discernible modifications in 1939 and 1942 were to the windows – sliding glass ventilators instead of top-opening hinged toplights.
• No.9608 was so modified in 1946, at which time it was also fitted with gangway adaptors. The remainder were so fitted in the 1950s.
• Intended for cross-country trains, but from 1957 used more on relief trains.
• No.9605 was acquired by the National Railway Museum.

Link: https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/gwr/other/hA86FA6E0#ha86fa6e0

 

4 Diags.H39 & H40 2-car Set (Kitchen First & Diner Third)

61ft 4½in x 9ft 3in. Ten sets (up to 1953). Nos.9611-9630. Kitchen one end of First. Lifespan: 1931-1962.

• Shallow sliding ventilators fitted before 1939 (except Nos.9614/9/24/9).
• Modified internally under the Hampton scheme from 1949.
• Ran on 9ft ‘heavy’ bogies.
• All fitted later with gangway adaptors.
• Nos.9611-13 converted to Diag.H59 Buffet Cars from September 1953.
• Ran in BR Chocolate & Cream from summer 1956 although a 1959 photo shows a set running as Maroon Kitchen First with Red & Cream Diner (9.20amSO St Ives-Paddington).
• In 1959, for example, used in the Cornish Riviera Express (to Penzance M-F, St Ives SO), 11.00amSO and 11.05amSO Paddington-Penzance (the latter as far as Plymouth).
• Nos.9615 & 9627 preserved on the SVR.
• Production of these cars might help pave the way for the ‘matching’ 1929 Cornish Riviera stock.

Link: http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/images/9615_600px.jpg

Link: https://www.svrwiki.com/GWR_9627_Restaurant_Third#/media/File:GWR_9627_20210423.jpg

 

5 Diag.H55 Buffet Car 12-wheel

60ft 11¼ x 8ft 11in. Five vehicles. Nos.9676-9680. Buffet etc one end. Lifespan: 1938-1962/5.

• 6-wheel bogies always give any vehicle a ‘distinctive and important look’.
• These cars could run off the GWR system to the north.
• 1938 GWR document shows No.9680 Kingswear-Paddington.
• They were not altered in the Hampton scheme.
• All later fitted with gangway adaptors.
• Nos.9677 and 9678 were painted BR Chocolate & Cream in 1956.
• One of this diagram was in the Bristolian from 1954 to 1961; that was No.9677 from 1956 in Chocolate & Cream.

Link: https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/gwr/other/hA87064D7#ha87064d7

 

6 Diag.H57 Compo Diner 12-wheel

60ft 11¼in x 8ft 11in. Five vehicles. Nos.9671-9675. Kitchen in centre. Lifespan: 1938-1962.

• 6-wheel bogies always give any vehicle a ‘distinctive and important look’.
• These cars could run off the GWR system to the north.
• No.9672 was the first of the Hampton refurbished vehicles into service (1946).
• No.9673 was used by Generals Montgomery and Eisenhower as a mobile headquarters in the Alive train February 1943 to November 1946.
• All fitted with gangway adaptors, 1953/4.
• Nos.9672 and 9673 were painted BR Chocolate & Cream.
• One of the two noted in The Royal Duchy (1957); No.9671 noted in The Devonian (1958); No.9672 was in The Cornishman (1957); and both noted in the Cambrian Coast Express (late 1957).
• Used on top link duties until 1960; relief work until 1962.

Link: https://rcts.zenfolio.com/coaching-stock/gwr/other/hA87062BD#ha87062bd

 

7 If a company offered to make just one of the 8-wheel types, which would be your preference?

 

8 If a company offered to make just one of the 12-wheel types, which would be your preference?

 

9 Your suggestions for GWR Dining Cars not listed.

If you want a new-tooled version of the Hornby Diag.H33 Compo Diner, please log it here, but remember that that diagram never ran in BR Chocolate & Cream. Please give reasons for your suggestions.

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box.

 

You have until midnight on Monday 30 August. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Tuesday 31 August. They will be sent to: Accurascale, Bachmann, Dapol, Hornby and Sonic.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

I have attached a PDF version of the above if is easier for you to download and observe at your leisure.

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

 

 

GWR Mini-Poll No.11 Dining Cars.pdf

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

My own feeling is that ‘the time is right’ for a GWR Dining Car…

• The SR has comparatively recently had the Maunsell RF and, soon to come, the Restaurant Composite – although the latter is totally inappropriate, as the two didn’t run together (as far as we know)! A Diag.2659 Kitchen Buffet Car is needed!
• The LMS has the old Airfix Period II 12-wheeler and now a Kitchen Car, with suitable open stock for dining, as part of the Coronation Scot train.
• The LNER has comparatively recently had the Gresley Buffet Car and there is the GER car soon to emanate from the Titfield Thunderbolt range.
• BR has a number of catering types in model form as well as the various Pullmans.

 

The leaves the poor old GWR with the Hornby Diag.H33 of 1978 vintage, with all its idiosyncrasies. The model is basically in ‘original condition’ but John tells me:

• The underframe truss is too short.
• The dynamo and gas cylinders are missing – it should have four on the underframe.
• The window next left to the double doors in the middle should be about half the height of the other similar ones.

 

Some makers have shown a willingness to make several sets of tools to cover a suite of possibilities – and any GWR Dining Car will need that flexibility.

 

I am voting for all six as I would genuinely buy probably one Lined Maroon and two BR Chocolate & Cream of any of them. Red & Cream is just too early for me with these.

 

As they give me a lot of flexibility of use, my preferences are:

• Diag.H38 for the 8-wheel types
• Diag.H57 for the 12-wheel types

 

By way of Suggestion (at 9), I would certainly buy a new-tooled Diag.H33 Compo Diner but probably only two and those would need to be Maroon. Don’t forget that this diagram didn’t run in BR Chocolate & Cream – perhaps that’s why Hornby haven’t gone for them?

 

Brian

[Oldddudders]

10 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Diesels ?  What diesels ? 

Diesels have cylinders. KC had a combustion chamber, I think.