A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[gwrrob]

When I was much younger and a beginner in model railways I had a go at building the DJH kit of 1368. Not too bad from five feet away.

 

[Coach bogie]

I had not been in the mood to do any modelling and need to reset my mojo. A trip to see the Saint and an afternoon at Pendon and now the workbench is busy again. All that way to see the Saint and now I find it will be a 45 minute drive away in a couple of weeks in North Yorkshire.

Mike Wiltshire

[Siberian Snooper]

Such elegance!

 

 

[gwrrob]

It's an overcast day in the South Hams as King class 6004 King George Third heads west with an eight coach train which includes my H57 diner. More anon.

 

[BMacdermott]

Final Call for Votes - GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.12: Slips & Sleepers  

 

Hello everyone

 

A reminder that your 'Polling Station' closes at 1700 today with results expected tomorrow.

 

If you haven't already voted, please see my Wednesday posting about half way down page 1694.

 

Many thanks

 

Brian

[Nick Gough]

My votes are for 4, 6, 8, 9, and 10

 

Can I query the description of number 9 - the J16?

You have described it as first class, whereas in my books it is shewn as a composite.

 

I can justify both slips and sleeping cars as both types passed through 'my' area.

 

In fact all the GWR sleeper trains were routed through the Thames valley on the Bristol line.

 

According to the 1937 coach book the West of England sleepers used pairs of vehicles (first + third) whilst the South Wales trains had single composites. Unlike today most trains only contained one sleeping car or a single pair. They were mostly made up of ordinary passenger stock, siphons and vans. 

 

The main exception was the sole Up West of England train, which contained the two sleeper pairs from the two down trains.

 

[Neal Ball]

11 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

My votes are for 4, 6, 8, 9, and 10

 

Can I query the description of number 9 - the J16?

You have described it as first class, whereas in my books it is shewn as a composite.

 

I can justify both slips and sleeping cars as both types passed through 'my' area.

 

In fact all the GWR sleeper trains were routed through the Thames valley on the Bristol line.

 

According to the 1937 coach book the West of England sleepers used pairs of vehicles (first + third) whilst the South Wales trains had single composites. Unlike today most trains only contained one sleeping car or a single pair. They were mostly made up of ordinary passenger stock, siphons and vans. 

 

The main exception was the sole Up West of England train, which contained the two sleeper pairs from the two down trains.

 

 

It looks as if J16 (one vehicle) is an interesting conundrum - converted from J9 which was a Composite (2 vehicles).

 

There are two photos on Page 142 of Russells Appendix vol 2. In the photos it looks as if it has a door at one end only and that shews 1 - no other markings to suggest anything - although the window spacing further away from 1 would suggest wider compartments....

 

It was converted in 1942 to be part of a mobile SHAEF headquarters and later refitted in 1948 when presumably it went into ordinary stock. At that stage the small blurb, doesn't suggest if it was a Composite or First class.

 

The Russell carriage books were printed in 1984 (Appendix vol 2 at least), you can't help feeling that more photos and information has come to light since then and it's possibly time for a combined volume, same as the Goods Vehicles book of a few years ago.

[2ManySpams]

A day at the SVR today with a Mucky Duck at the front. Close escape as the train going the other way was a 28xx.

 

 

 

 

[gwrrob]

Are you going to the 7mm event in the Engine Shed, Highley chum ?

[gwrrob]

Talking of my  Comet H57 diner and a closer examination reveals exactly how much work went into building her and I wonder the price point of a rtr version here and probably more than the rrp of the Bachmann autocoach. A lot of roof detail and I remember the interior took longer than the rest of the build. The model was pro-painted by Chris Phillips.

 

[TrevorP1]

21 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Talking of my  Comet H57 diner and a closer examination reveals exactly how much work went into building her and I wonder the price point of a rtr version here and probably more than the rrp of the Bachmann autocoach. A lot of roof detail and I remember the interior took longer than the rest of the build. The model was pro-painted by Chris Phillips.

 

 

That's a good looking coach Rob. I've nearly finished mine. Varnished and glazed since we came back from holiday. Curtains, table lamps, door handles and handrails to go. Then it will finally be finished. I think...

 

 

[Limpley Stoker]

I’ll just vote for 7, Hawksworth slip (for use under rule 1)

 

but I think I will give the sleepers a swerve!

 

Thank you team.

[Neal Ball]

Lovely H57 @gwrrob

[toboldlygo]

2 hours ago, 2ManySpams said:

A day at the SVR today with a Mucky Duck at the front. Close escape as the train going the other way was a 28xx.

 

 

 

 

Time for the power's that be to lock you back up in the Iron Bulleid - these Eastern leanings won't be tolerated.

[checkrail]

2 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Talking of my  Comet H57 diner

Lovely coach Robin!

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Talking of my  Comet H57 diner and a closer examination reveals exactly how much work went into building her and I wonder the price point of a rtr version here and probably more than the rrp of the Bachmann autocoach. A lot of roof detail and I remember the interior took longer than the rest of the build.

 

A comparison between a handbuilt kit and a RTR product can be useful to judge how much a RTR item is worth to the purchaser but it doesn't necessarily work out as well when trying to judge the work to make a RTR item.

 

Take the interior - a RTR coach won't have the people inside and much of the interior will be a 1 piece (or a small handful of pieces) of tooled plastic - so much quicker to assemble (particular for someone who does this as a job for x hours a day, every workday for a year).

 

Similarly the roof - tool in little holes for the assorted roof details, provide bins of detail parts, and that assembly person will get that roof done in minutes compared to those of us doing it occasionally.

 

So, not saying it will be cheap, but I suspect the bigger issue in costing it will simply be that unlike say the new Accurascale Mk2b the long term sales potential of a GWR diner will be substantially fewer units.

[gwrrob]

2 hours ago, toboldlygo said:

Time for the power's that be to lock you back up in the Iron Bulleid - 

 

Rumour has it he's been scanned by Alan at Modelu.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

A comparison between a handbuilt kit and a RTR product can be useful to judge how much a RTR item is worth to the purchaser but it doesn't necessarily work out as well when trying to judge the work to make a RTR item.

 

Take the interior - a RTR coach won't have the people inside and much of the interior will be a 1 piece (or a small handful of pieces) of tooled plastic - so much quicker to assemble (particular for someone who does this as a job for x hours a day, every workday for a year).

 

Similarly the roof - tool in little holes for the assorted roof details, provide bins of detail parts, and that assembly person will get that roof done in minutes compared to those of us doing it occasionally.

 

So, not saying it will be cheap, but I suspect the bigger issue in costing it will simply be that unlike say the new Accurascale Mk2b the long term sales potential of a GWR diner will be substantially fewer units.

I reckon I would pay £100 for something RTR looking as good as that, but it won't actually be as good in total. Special coaches.... special price. Would need great promotion and clever sales pitch. In ten/fifteen years it could be too late as too few may still be modelling that period? RIP etc.

P

[Dunsignalling]

More specialised coaches like Catering vehicles form a small proportion of the make-up of even prestige services, and don't figure at all in most others.

 

Where a manufacturer does make a comprehensive range of a particular type these will inevitably sell in much smaller quantities than the BSKs, SKs and CKs that dominate most formations. 

 

Some tooling will be common with the more numerous types, but the cost of any that is unique to the diners will need to be recovered over a smaller number of sales. 

 

We, perhaps unconsciously, expect all variants within a range of coaches to be priced the same which, given a little more thought, is not entirely logical.

 

However, I suspect the manufacturers recognise this and raise the prices of the common types a little so as to recover any shortfall and conform to our expectations rather than receive a load of queries about any differentials....

 

John

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[mdvle]

18 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I reckon I would pay £100 for something RTR looking as good as that, but it won't actually be as good in total. Special coaches.... special price. Would need great promotion and clever sales pitch. In ten/fifteen years it could be too late as too few may still be modelling that period? RIP etc.

 

15 years ago - so 2006 - who would have predicted:

• retailers commissioning or dealing directly with China to get models made
• Hornby/Bachmann/Heljan/Dapol being challenged by Rapido, Accurascale, Cavalex, KR Models, Revolution, Sonic and others.
• a healthy - if limited by size of the trains - RTR 7mm/O market
• almost every class of mainstream diesel loco being available RTR
• oddballs like the Fell, GT3, ATP-E and others available RTR
• the other side of the market, steam, pushing backwards from the big 4 into the previous companies

Anything is certainly possible in 15 years, but so far steam doesn't seem to be dead/dying even if it isn't as big as it once was - and my suspicion is that steam will always remain given the visual and other benefits it offers to those who model that era.

[Neal Ball]

Let's not talk down the prospect of catering vehicles for the GWR - if they were potentially going to be such poor sellers, we wouldn't have Hornby tooling up SR carriages at the moment.

 

We live in hope that Hornby and/or Bachmann continue to tool up new GWR carriages, to include restaurant and maybe even some 1930's buffet cars.

 

Thanks!

[Neal Ball]

3 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

15 years ago - so 2006 - who would have predicted:

• retailers commissioning or dealing directly with China to get models made
• Hornby/Bachmann/Heljan/Dapol being challenged by Rapido, Accurascale, Cavalex, KR Models, Revolution, Sonic and others.
• a healthy - if limited by size of the trains - RTR 7mm/O market
• almost every class of mainstream diesel loco being available RTR
• oddballs like the Fell, GT3, ATP-E and others available RTR
• the other side of the market, steam, pushing backwards from the big 4 into the previous companies

Anything is certainly possible in 15 years, but so far steam doesn't seem to be dead/dying even if it isn't as big as it once was - and my suspicion is that steam will always remain given the visual and other benefits it offers to those who model that era.

 

Well said.

[BMacdermott]

7 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Can I query the description of number 9 - the J16?

You have described it as first class, whereas in my books it is shewn as a composite.

 

 

Hello Nick

 

Sorry for delay in getting back - minor domestic emergency got in the way.

 

Indeed an error - it should be Composite.

 

Brian

[Nick Gough]

1 minute ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Nick

 

Sorry for delay in getting back - minor domestic emergency got in the way.

 

Indeed an error - it should be Composite.

 

Brian

Thanks Brian.

[BMacdermott]

9 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Let's not talk down the prospect of catering vehicles for the GWR - if they were potentially going to be such poor sellers, we wouldn't have Hornby tooling up SR carriages at the moment.

 

We live in hope that Hornby and/or Bachmann continue to tool up new GWR carriages, to include restaurant and maybe even some 1930's buffet cars.

 

Thanks!

 

Hello Neal

 

Agreed,

 

Below I what I said as (part) of my reasons for voting for my selection of Dining Cars.

 

Brian

 

Extract of post of August 24

 

Hello everyone

 

My own feeling is that ‘the time is right’ for a GWR Dining Car…

• The SR has comparatively recently had the Maunsell RF and, soon to come, the Restaurant Composite – although the latter is totally inappropriate, as the two didn’t run together (as far as we know)! A Diag.2659 Kitchen Buffet Car is needed!
• The LMS has the old Airfix Period II 12-wheeler and now a Kitchen Car, with suitable open stock for dining, as part of the Coronation Scot train.
• The LNER has comparatively recently had the Gresley Buffet Car and there is the GER car soon to emanate from the Titfield Thunderbolt range.
• BR has a number of catering types in model form as well as the various Pullmans.

 

The leaves the poor old GWR with the Hornby Diag.H33 of 1978 vintage, with all its idiosyncrasies. The model is basically in ‘original condition’ but John tells me:

• The underframe truss is too short.
• The dynamo and gas cylinders are missing – it should have four on the underframe.
• The window next left to the double doors in the middle should be about half the height of the other similar ones.

 

Some makers have shown a willingness to make several sets of tools to cover a suite of possibilities – and any GWR Dining Car will need that flexibility.