A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[bgman]

Keep 'em coming mate ! 

[Captain Kernow]

5 hours ago, 2ManySpams said:

 

Got just the device...

 

 

Creative Commons Zero https://www.maxpixel.net/Field-Manure-Muck-Spreader-Muck-Spreading-6135606

So is there literally a fan in behind that green attachment?

 

[Captain Kernow]

On 05/09/2021 at 21:19, toboldlygo said:

 

Quick and easy fix, get some 3mm x 1mm styrene strip and make up some U shaped spacers to go around the buffer shank behind the buffer beam

Tried that little tip on a Bachmann 8750 just now, and it worked a treat!

 

Many thanks!

 

[88C]

The photos of CoT remind me of a passage in Adrian Vaughan’s book Signalman’s Morning in which he remembers her standing in for a failed diesel on the Bristolian. Not a sight to forget.

 

Brian.

[Ian Hargrave]

7 hours ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

Which what always disappointed my old man with Southern locos in the '40s, bl00dy filthy, unlike the GWR who always kept there's clean, just like their engines

 
A noble aspiration for this the ultimate GW adoration group. But that’s all it is. The word cleanliness as applied to the 40’s was as alien as the moon is to cheese. Grime was standard livery for all four companies/ later BR regions.  But then hey along come the 50’s and a recycled CoT restoring nostalgia to is rightful place. In my case heading a train of crimson& cream Mk 1 on a Works excursion to Swindon. Looked slightly incongruous at Pontypridd but never mind. Lovely while it lasted.

[gwrrob]

5 hours ago, bgman said:

Keep 'em coming mate ! 

 

Oh go on then.

 

[bgman]

You're a true gentleman, thank you.

[2ManySpams]

16 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

So is there literally a fan in behind that green attachment?

 

 

Not only hit the fan but passed right through. Thinking of getting one for my commute to work.

[bgman]

43 minutes ago, 2ManySpams said:

 

Not only hot the fan but passed right through. Thinking of getting one for my commute to work.

 

Oh ! Aaargh ! 

 

Farmer Spammerz  whatever next ?

[BMacdermott]

GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.13: Non-gangwayed Coaches

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to the thirteenth in our series of GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls. I am running them here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf.

 

We normally let you do the hard work of researching what you want to vote for but – due to complexities – we have changed tack on this one with notes to help you so that we are all ‘singing from the same sheet’. It seemed to work well with the recent Dining Car Mini-Poll.

 

In order to generate some debate – and some ‘learning opportunities’ – please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selections. I copy all ‘Comments Received’ in order of receipt – but with names removed – and post them as a PDF with the Results.

 

Please note that we do not welcome comments that act as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’!

 

Here’s what to do…

1. You may vote for any or all of the items listed plus suggestions at 13 (if you so wish).

2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’.

3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7 – with comments and explanations following. My posting which follows should serve as an example.

4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

1 Dean Low Roof Coaches

• 4- and 6-wheel stock of 1872-1902.
• The earliest were built as main line coaches before 8-wheel stock became common.
• Later ones were built for local services.
• They were all transferred to local services where they were replaced by bogie coaches.
• The last were used on workmen's services into the BR era.
• A preserved 4-wheel Composite, Brake Third and 6-wheel Third Saloon can be found at the Great Western Society at Didcot.

 

2 Dean Non-Gangwayed Clerestory Coaches

• Built 1876-1904.
• Used all over the system, some on express workings to start with.
• Relegated to secondary services in due course.
• An appreciable number lasted into BR days.
• There are two preserved at the Great Western Society at Didcot.
• Hornby has produced a Third (built as a Second) and Brake Third.

 

3 Churchward 56ft 11¼in ‘Toplight’ Steel Panelled Non-gangwayed Coaches

As we all know, the subject of gangwayed ‘Toplight’ stock is a vexed one and the non-gangwayed stock is no better! We are looking at the diagrams below as they share the same length, non-adjustable angle trusses and 9ft fish belly bogies.

• Diag.A15: 8-compartment First.1922-1962. These didn’t actually have toplights and some had steel roofs.
• Diag.D67: 6-compartment Brake Third and Diag.E103: 9-compartment Composite. Ran as 4-car sets. 1922-1960.

 

4 Churchward and Collett 'Main Line & City' coaches

They originally worked on GWR London suburban services via the Hammersmith & City and Circle Lines to Aldgate, but these ceased in 1939. They continued to be used in the London Division until displaced by DMUs.

• They were short (48ft) and to a reduced loading gauge.
• They ran as 6 coach sets BT+T+C+C+T+BT.
• As with other GWR stock during WWII, the Composites were downgraded to Thirds but one in each set was re-graded back in the early 1950s.
• The sets ended their lives in the Bristol and South Wales areas.

Six sets were built in 1920/21. They were steel panelled ‘Toplights’ to Diags.D62, C37 and E101. Most were withdrawn in 1957, but one third lasted until 1962 and two Brake Thirds until 1965. These latter are preserved.

 

Three more sets were built in 1925. They did not have toplights and were articulated. Diags.D93, C53 and E126/E133. Originally, ran as three sets all sextuplets, but Set 7 was altered to two triplets in 1927. Two sets withdrawn in November 1957, the last in July 1960.

 

5 Collett B-set 57ft Flat Ended Diag.E147

• Built between 1933 and 1936 with 9ft Pressed Steel bogies and straight grab rails.
• Examples lasted until 1962, with one until 1963.
• Fifty-three sets (plus 10 singles and 2 Auto-trailers).
• Have been allocated to: Barry, Bristol, Cardiff, Dowlais, Fairford, Leamington Spa, Stratford, Wolverhampton, Llanfyllyn, Llanymynech, Oswestry, Llanelly, Neath, Newport, Newquay, Senghenydd, Tondu, Truro.

 

6 Collett B-set 61ft Bow Ended Diag.E140

• Built between 1930 and 1931. Examples lasted until 1962.
• Forty-one sets with 7ft bogies. Recessed door handles.
• Have been allocated to: Bodmin, Bridport, Bristol, Cardiff, Helston, Kingham, Kingsbridge, Leamington, Stratford, Worcester, Taunton, St Ives, Wellington & Crewe.
• The old Airfix (now Hornby) models represent this type.

 

7 Collett B-set 61ft Bow Ended Diag.E145

• Built 1932 and 1933. Examples lasted until 1962.
• Twenty-five sets with 9ft plate bogies, but identical bodies as E140 above.
• Have been allocated to: Bristol, Marlborough, Newport, Newquay, Truro, Whitland.

 

8 Collett 57ft x 9ft Non-gangwayed Flat Ended Coaches

A problem with this stock is that there are numerous diagrams with a number of different lengths and widths. We feel the following have potential for modellers:

• Diag.C43. 9-compartment Third. Built 1923-4. Lasted to 1960.
• Diag.D117. 5-compartment Brake Third. Built 1934-36. Lasted to 1963.
• Diag.E157. 6-compartment Brake Composite. Built 1937. Lasted to 1963. Two were converted to Diag.A33 Driving Auto Trailers; these will feature in the Autocoaches Mini-Poll. Brake Composites could, for example, be found top-and-tailing three Thirds in stopping trains between Exeter and Kingswear, or as three coaches, formed BC+T+BT. A single Third might be used as a strengthener – even to gangwayed trains.

 

9 Collet 59ft 3in x 8ft 11in Non-gangwayed Flat Ended Composites Diag.E156 & Diag.2189

• There were 80 Diag.E156 9-compartment Composites, built 1937-40. They lasted to 1962.
• A further 80 of these vehicles were built in 1952/3 for the LMR under that region’s Diag.2189.
• Running with M prefix and W suffix, they lasted until 1967.

 

10 Collett 61ft 2in x 9ft Non-gangwayed Bow Ended Coaches

Although many of these coaches were allocated to sets, many were ‘loose’. Once again, the type suffers from many diagrams to differing lengths and widths. We feel that the following stock built between 1930 and 1933 has potential for modellers. They had recessed door handles and short, straight commode handles with a recess behind them; the guard’s doors were flat. London, Birmingham and Chester had 4-coach sets with ‘handed’ Brake Thirds formed as:

• Diag.D109 Brake Third. Lasted to 1962.
• Diag.E141 Composite. Some lasted to 1962.
• Diag.E141 Composite. Downgraded to Third after WWII.
• Diag.D109 Brake Third.

In the 1950s, these 4-sets could be seen with a (possibly non-matching) Third attached. Later, what were known as Q sets in the London Division ran as BT+T+C+T+BT or as BT+C+C+BT+T – formed with a seemingly random mix of:

• Some of the above
• Collett Non-gangwayed Stock
• Hawksworth Non-gangwayed Stock
• BR Non-gangwayed stock.

 

11 Hawksworth 63ft 0¾in x 8ft 11in Flat Ended Non-gangwayed Coaches

This stock did not have the domed roofs of the gangwayed types. There were 120 Brake Thirds and 232 Thirds built from 1947. The 36 Diag.E166 Composites and 32 Diag.E167 Brake Composites followed in 1952. They had 9ft Pressed Steel bogies and were used on suburban and some branch services throughout the system. They served until around 1963. They were often in the London District Q sets, formed:

• Diag.D132 Brake Third.
• Diag.C83 Third.
• Diag.E166 Composite.
• Diag.C83 Third.
• Diag.D132 Brake Third.

Ten of the Brake Composites were built to run as five B-sets in the Plymouth area. These weren’t ‘close-coupled’ and we have seen a photo of one coach only being used at Bodmin North

 

12 Hawksworth 64ft Lavatory Brake Composites (1960)

• BR converted three Hawksworth Brake Composites into Slip Coaches in 1958.
• With the end of such workings, the slip apparatus was removed in September/October 1960 and the coaches used as Non-gangwayed Lavatory Brake Composites.
• At least one was used on the Highbridge branch of the S&D.

 

13 Your suggestions of any Non-gangwayed Coaches not listed.

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box.

 

You have until midnight on Saturday 11 September. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Sunday 12 September.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

 

 

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

I am voting for:

• 6   Collett B-set 61ft Bow Ended Diag.E140
• 8   Collett 57ft x 9ft Non-gangwayed Flat Ended Coaches
• 10 Collett 61ft 2in x 9ft Non-gangwayed Bow Ended Coaches
• 11 Hawksworth 63ft 0¾in x 8ft 11in Flat Ended Non-gangwayed Coaches

I can use Nos.6 and 8 – the Diag.E140 B-set and 57ft Non-gangwayed coaches – to good effect when my layout is in ‘Newton Abbot mode’. The B-set can be ‘in for cleaning’ from the Kingsbridge branch and the other stock would make for excellent local services.

 

The Nos.10 and 11 coaches – 61ft 2in Bow End and 63ft Hawksworth stock – would come into play when my layout goes into ‘Oxford mode’. They would facilitate interesting local services in the Q sets, particularly if someone ever makes the Mk1 Non-gangwayeds to throw into the jumbled mix!

 

Although the converted Hawksworth Lavatory Brake Composites were seen on the S&D’s Highbridge branch, they are just a little too late for my period, so I haven’t voted for them.

 

Brian

[Neal Ball]

Brian and team thank you again for the mini-poll.... however I have a difficulty here...

 

The current Hornby non-corridor stock will I suspect do the majority of modellers, so if I choose something, it would have to be something different.

 

I am therefore only going to vote for No 4. The London suburban 48ft stock. A set of six could easily form an early morning departure from Henley on Thames behind a 61xx with an evening return.

 

Whilst a new B set carriage would be great, in which case I would vote for no 5 - at 57ft they are the diagram spread across a lot of the system. But to be honest thats only a half hearted vote.... my full vote goes to no 4.

 

Thanks again, I look forward to the Autocoaches where hopefully I will be voting for more than 1 1/2 categories! 

 

Regards, Neal.

[Mike_Walker]

The one I've been waiting for!

 

5, 6 and 7 all would be of interest enabling me to replace my Airfix et al B Sets with something better.  Fingers crossed someone grasps the nettle!

 

Mike

[Tim Dubya]

I'll have a B please Bob...

 

 

I set of these please:

 

5 . Collett B-set 57ft Flat Ended Diag.E147

 

thank you guys

 

[CoombeTown]

For me it's got to be 6 & 8.

This was the type that worked on the Minehead branch, coupled to an TK of some description, so I'd use one of the C43s for this purpose.

That being said, realistically, if anyone released a new 'B' set, made to modern standards my wallet would be out in a flash. It definitely feels like a missed opportunity in the BLT market.

[Coach bogie]

 

I would be interested in

5 as your research shows, they were seen all over the system

7  common features to 1929 Riviera stock and might lead on to other diagrams, and the Airfix is overdue for replacement (approx 1976?). The different bogies avoids too much duplication

10 again common features to 1929 Riviera stock and might lead on to other diagrams

 

Thanks for all your efforts

 

Mike Wiltshire

[petrox]

My favourite choice would be for no. 6 (B set E140) to replace the old Airfix set I have.

However I would find room for a couple of coaches from either 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11, either as an alternative B set or "odd" coaches attached to a B set.

 

Thanks again for the poll.

 

Pete

[7802]

Thanks to the team again.

 

I’d purchase a set of 6, 8 and 11.

 

However given the fairly recent and high quality Hornby offering being in my stock already, I’m not really desperate for any, and as such the numbers purchased may be lower than they would otherwise have been. 
 

B sets are long overdue and they are ideal for small layouts.

 

I’ve chosen 8 because it’s the most useful for me and 11 so as to offer some variety of coach length.

[The Fatadder]

Very simple one for me this time, given that I am only in need of two types of non corridor coaches for Brent.  So my vote is for a decent E140, I would be in need of two pairs to replace Kingsbridge No1 and No2.  The current ex Airfix model is absolutely awful, so this release would make a massive difference to the branch on the layout.

 

6 Collett B-set 61ft Bow Ended Diag.E140

[St Enodoc]

5, 8, 10 and 11 please, Brian.

 

I have kits for several of these but RTR would allow me to spend my time more fruitfully than building them.

 

I'm happy with my Airfix (and sucessors) models of 6 (and 7, rebogied).

 

Of all the other possibles, none leap out at me so I'll pass on 13, thanks.

[BMacdermott]

17 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

 

I would be interested in

5 as your research shows, they were seen all over the system

7  common features to 1929 Riviera stock and might lead on to other diagrams, and the Airfix is overdue for replacement (approx 1976?). The different bogies avoids too much duplication

10 again common features to 1929 Riviera stock and might lead on to other diagrams

 

Hello Mike

 

Its was 1977 according to Pat Hammond's Ramsay Catalogue.

 

Brian

[FarrMan]

I will vote for 2, 3 and 8 (but only the C43). All the others are too late for my chosen period (1929) or wrong location, though they appear to be more popular!

 

Lloyd

[TrevorP1]

I don't have much of a need for non-gangway coaches. However, two trains require a brake composite which I'm fudging with old Hornby B set stock fitted with longer buffers, so for me it would be the latest diagram with this type of vehicle...

 

8  Collett 57ft x 9ft Non-gangwayed Flat Ended Coaches

 

One of the above workings also requires a second. As ex-LM stock did appear in Cornwall I'm using a Hornby ex-LM coach. It looks fine so I'd probably not bother to change it.

 

Not wishing to open a can of worms but my concern is that we're unlikely to get anything like this due to the existing recent Hornby GW non-gangway stock.

Edited September 8, 2021 by TrevorP1
typo

[gwrrob]

Thanks as usual Brian and I'd find it hard to resist any new GWR coach offering. I have an old pair of the Airfix/Hornby B set which are in the quite rare post war branding with grey roofs. I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to purchase a new better detailed and correct version . I also have a soft spot for the diagram E147 too and these also ran on branches as single coaches.

 

So 5,6,,8 and 10 please.

[BMacdermott]

39 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Thanks as usual Brian and I'd find it hard to resist any new GWR coach offering. I have an old pair of the Airfix/Hornby B set which are in the quite rare post war branding with grey roofs. I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to purchase a new better detailed and correct version . I also have a soft spot for the diagram E147 too and these also ran on branches as single coaches.

 

So 5,6,,8 and 10 please.

 

Hello Rob

 

You have two commas between Nos.6 and 8. Have you accidentally omitted No.7? 

 

Brian

Edited September 8, 2021 by BMacdermott
Clarification