A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[Dunsignalling]

33 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

As far as I am aware no SR coaches had the additional band. 

Some Bulleids had a narrow cantrail band in crimson, at least for a while. 

 

Photo ref: a FK S7615 (number on left, no suffix) in Bournemouth, July 1951, published in "Southern Coaches in Colour" by Michael Welch (Noodle Books, 2010). 

 

Other examples appear in Mike King's "Southern Coaches", albeit in B&W, including the Tavern Cars in their earliest form, though in their case it might be more appropriate to call them lintels.

 

SR-allocated Mk1s also had them, but I think they were mainly a WR/LMR thing, especially where the wide bands were concerned. 

 

John

Edited June 27, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Oldddudders]

48 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

As far as I am aware no SR coaches had the additional band. 

Some certainly did, just leafing through Mike King's book, and the depth varied. A 1949 pic of the Newhaven Continental shows several vehicles with the deep band, while high-window Maunsells simply defeated the painter, and only the roof rain strip was painted, says Mike King. There is also a pic of a Thanet composite with a deep band. 

 

But my original point was that the leading vehicle behind the pannier looks all the more spiffy for the deeper band. 

[gwrrob]

Back to 1947 and Laira based King class ,6022 King Edward 3, heads west with an express which includes a couple of Hawksworth coaches.

 

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Some Bulleids had a narrow cantrail band in crimson, at least for a while. 

 

Photo ref: a FK S7615 (number on left, no suffix) in Bournemouth, July 1951, published in "Southern Coaches in Colour" by Michael Welch (Noodle Books, 2010). 

 

Other examples appear in Mike King's "Southern Coaches", albeit in B&W, including the Tavern Cars in their earliest form, though in their case it might be more appropriate to call them lintels.

 

SR-allocated Mk1s also had them, but I think they were mainly a WR/LMR thing, especially where the wide bands were concerned. 

 

John

I never noticed those John.

P

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Some certainly did, just leafing through Mike King's book, and the depth varied. A 1949 pic of the Newhaven Continental shows several vehicles with the deep band, while high-window Maunsells simply defeated the painter, and only the roof rain strip was painted, says Mike King. There is also a pic of a Thanet composite with a deep band. 

 

But my original point was that the leading vehicle behind the pannier looks all the more spiffy for the deeper band. 

Yes, I agree I really like the sandwich effect. 

I obviously need to look at earlier coaches more carefully ref livery.

I also need to check when the MK1s lost any, if they did before going green.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Some Bulleids had a narrow cantrail band in crimson, at least for a while. 

 

Photo ref: a FK S7615 (number on left, no suffix) in Bournemouth, July 1951, published in "Southern Coaches in Colour" by Michael Welch (Noodle Books, 2010). 

 

Other examples appear in Mike King's "Southern Coaches", albeit in B&W, including the Tavern Cars in their earliest form, though in their case it might be more appropriate to call them lintels.

 

SR-allocated Mk1s also had them, but I think they were mainly a WR/LMR thing, especially where the wide bands were concerned. 

 

John

That FK; I have never noticed that top line before.

In another of my books I spotted a Mk 1 Set (Portsmouth section of the Brighton) at Central in March 61, still in B & C. I shall have to consider doing that. Weirdly I have never really twigged the sandwich livery of B & C Mk1s and it is glaringly obvious!

I suppose I never considered Mk1s as being 'Southern Coaches' by design, but  I must try to find B & C Bulleids and have a good check, but Colour pics of those are quite rare. Any info gratefully received. Cheers.

P

[toboldlygo]

Nothing to see here, unless your a Duck  

 

 

 

 

No lining to worry about  

[bgman]

1 hour ago, toboldlygo said:

Nothing to see here, unless your a Duck  

Waddle he splash out on next ? 

[toboldlygo]

5 minutes ago, bgman said:

Waddle he splash out on next ? 

 

Eider downs  

[Clive Mortimore]

On 26/06/2021 at 23:13, The Stationmaster said:

Indeed.  In paints prior to changes in the 1960s blue was a notorious colour for fading or losing its original density apparently due to something in the pigments and irrespective of the usage.  Hence it, especially the mid blue shades, tended to be avoided by the building trades because of its impermanence.  By the time BR re-adopted it in the 1960s paint technology had obviously changed greatly so it hled its colour a lot better than had once been the case.

Hi Mike

 

ICI made blue paint which didn't fade while Dr Beeching was still their chairman. B.R. must of got their buckets of it at mates rates. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Clive Mortimore

[gwrrob]

Some Monday afternoon delight.

 

[Mallard60022]

18 hours ago, toboldlygo said:

Nothing to see here, unless your a Duck  

 

 

 

 

No lining to worry about  

Bleddy old things, nice couplings though.

[gwrrob]

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Bleddy old things, nice couplings though.

Should they be buckeyes?

[BMacdermott]

GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.3: TPO Stock

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to the third in our series of GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls. I am running them here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf.

 

When we started looking at the subject, it soon became clear that simply listing all the Diagram L vehicles wasn’t going to be a practical method. We have, instead, focused on the content of ‘mail trains’ in two sample years – 1936 and 1956 – and have ‘suggested’ an outcome which rather neatly coincides happily with the earlier postings of Fatadder and Coach Bogie!

 

Within the trains, vehicles are listed in ‘diagram order’, not train formation order. The running numbers are those which could have run in the trains. Only the TPO vehicles are noted (except in the 6.25am at the end). Some trains would have been very long! For clarity, we have detailed the trains as on a typical day and have ignored the complications of SO, SunO etc.

 

5.30am Paddington-Penzance

Diag.L22 No.798 or Spare. To Taunton

Train did not convey the L22 Van in 1956 though.

 

10.10pm Paddington-Penzance Postal

Diag.L13 Nos.834, 835, 836

Diag.L14 Nos.830, 831, 832

Diag.L18 Nos.806, 807, 808

Diag.L21 Nos.793, 794, 795

Diag.L23 Nos.812, 813, 814

 

In 1956, as above but...

Diag.L13 No.835, with Diag.L25 Nos.846, 847 replacing L13 Nos.834, 836

Diag.L25 Nos.843, 844, 845 added

Diag.L26 Nos.39, 81, 1177 added (converted from Diag.K40 PBV with TPO offset gangways)

 

Although in his book, Great Western Coaches from 1890, Michael Harris indicates that L22 No.798 was in this train, we can find no evidence of that in the Carriage Working books.

 

9.25pm Paddington-Neyland

Diag.L19 Nos.848, 849. Bristol-Cardiff

Diag.L24 Nos.815, 816, 817. Paddington-Neyland (but after 1956, to Bristol only)

In 1956, Diag.L20 No.796 was in the train, Bristol-Carmarthen

 

(Timing unknown) Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth

Diag.L22 No.797

 

1.25am Crewe-Penzance (2.55am Shrewsbury-Penzance)

Diag.L22 Nos.801, 802, 803. Crewe-Cardiff.

 

6.25am Bristol-Plymouth

Diag.L22 Nos.799, 800 formed ahead of a Parcels Van, Brake Van, SK, CK, SK, BSK.

 

The Mini-Poll Team believes that the Diag.L22 is a pragmatic option for a broad range of modellers because it:

·         Is a ‘short’ vehicle at only 50ft (ideal for Radius 1 curves);

·         Has a long life-span, 1933 to 1968/9;

·         Has good livery options;

·         Has electric lights (which seem to be popular these days on DCC layouts);

·         Has the option of net apparatus (Nos.797-800) or not (Nos.801-803);

·         It actually ‘looks like’ an archetypal TPO (not unlike the very old Tri-ang working model);

·         Nos.799 & 800 can run in the short-ish 6.25am Bristol-Plymouth;

·         Can no doubt be placed in an ‘ordinary’ Parcels Train if you are running it ‘Empty to Works’.

 

But you may disagree and your comments will be welcome! Have your votes below...

 

1. I want to vote for just the Diag.L22. (Simply state L22 on your posting)

 

2. I want to vote for the following Diag.L Nos: (Such as L4, L20, L21 etc including L22 if you didn’t pick Option 1 above).

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box.

 

You have until 17.00 on Saturday 3 July. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Sunday 4 July.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

I am voting specifically for the L22 – but have added L23.

 

I’m not a ‘model manufacturer’ and don’t profess to understand the economics of slip tools etc but I wonder if the following is possible…

 

The Diag.L22 is a 50ft vehicle – so is Diag.L23.

 

Now, if the L23 shared the same or very similar underframe to the L22, would a maker possibly ‘tool up’ for that as well?

 

There are benefits with Diag.L23…

·         They were in the Paddington-Penzance TPO

·         When displaced in 1959 they were transferred to BR’s Southern Region South Eastern Division and       painted green in 1960. By 1961, they were allocated to London Bridge-Dover workings.

·         Nos.813/4 returned to the Western Region c.1972; converted as Enparts vehicles.

·         Significantly, No.814 has been preserved in working order at the Great Western Society, Didcot and demonstrates TPO pick-up and delivery. This vehicle was built new in 1940 to replace the same-numbered vehicle which had been destroyed in an accident.

·         It is generally considered that a model sells better if there is a preserved example.

 

Some nay-sayers might well exclaim (such as): No-one will want TPO vehicles as they are always in such long trains and modellers don’t have the space.

 

My response to that is – and adding to what reader mdvle said on page 1648 – there will be many who might buy them simply because of the preserved example or the ‘eye candy’ value. Not all modellers are ‘aficianados’ and many simply ‘collect’.

 

Finally, two pictures of Diag.L22 vehicles for you:

·         Page 40, Steam on West of England Main Lines (Peter W Gray)

·         Page 79, Scenes from the Past:19. Railways in and around Newton Abbot & Torbay (CR Potts)

 

Brian

[M.I.B]

L22 L23 and L24 for me please.

 

L22 because they were as explained above "everywhere" for a long period.

 

L23 & L24 just to add some variety. 

 

Take all 3, add a long SIPHON or two and a full brake trailing - perfect mail train.

 

Or drop any of them into a mis matched consist = adding variety into a stock move for works etc.

[The Fatadder]

Fairly simple one for me, seeing as I already have a full TPO set that I have built from kits (and still have a set of etches for an L24 that I cant decide what I am going to do with).  

 

So I would chose the L22

 

Chosen because if there was an RTR model I would almost certainly end up buying one in order to model the Bristol TPO.  

[Mallard60022]

Question friends. 10.10 Padd to Penzance? Was there a return working of that? There used to be a big Postal out of Plymouth around 16.00 back in the early 60s; was that the return? I ask because if so I can then find an excuse to vote for that set of vehicles on a diversion at St David's to Central and on up to Yeovil Junction, or even further, due to 'issues' (genuine) on the W.E. main east of St David's.

Many thanks all.

Phil

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

Furthering Fatadder's post above, I also 'model' the 6.25am Bristol-Plymouth, but in late 1959/early 1960. The word 'model' is in quotes as I approximate the train from RTR stock and am currently substituting the Diag.L22 with a Bachmann TPO (W80300).

 

The L22's return from Penzance was in the Noon to Crewe (as far as Bristol).

 

Did the van actually pick-up via the apparatus on this stretch?

 

Brian

 

 

[Coach bogie]

Like Fatadder I have a complete train including the 70 footers that lasted into the 1950's.

 

The L22 s the diagram most likely to be seen on its own in daylight. Additional photographs of L22 appear in the Geen books often parked up at the western end of Bristol TM (on its own or with a siphon)

 

The L23 would be popular as there is one preserved. For choice of liveries L23 no 813 which ended up in Southern green with nets removed and later blue/grey.

 

Hawksworth L25 ended up on the Eastern/Midland and Southern finally painted in blue/grey livery.

 

Mention has ben made of the L24 which were the short ones with no nets. The L24 appeared on Neyland turns with full brakes and siphons so does not need a long train or other TPO vehicles.

 

Just to be awkward, there were clerestory K17 vans still being used by the GPO in the early 1950;s. The post office paid for them to be kept as reserve vehicles.

 

I do not need one but would buy a L22 out of support as it can be used independently.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[BMacdermott]

8 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Question friends. 10.10 Padd to Penzance? Was there a return working of that? There used to be a big Postal out of Plymouth around 16.00 back in the early 60s; was that the return? I ask because if so I can then find an excuse to vote for that set of vehicles on a diversion at St David's to Central and on up to Yeovil Junction, or even further, due to 'issues' (genuine) on the W.E. main east of St David's.

Many thanks all.

Phil

 

Hello Phil

 

Yes, indeed there was. Left Penzance at 6.40pm (1956 timings).

 

For your interest, the train was booked to convey a Siphon G from Torrington. 7.42pm from Ilfracombe, detached and attached at Exeter St Davids.

 

Brian

 

Brian

[BMacdermott]

Hello Mike (Wiltshire)

 

Just to confirm...are you voting just for Diag.L22, or the others too?

 

Brian

[TrevorP1]

Thank you once again Brian. The work in drawing up these polls must be considerable. My choices:

 

L23 For the reasons already stated.

 

If there was more plastic available...

 

L25 For use on my version of the west of England TPO. I would buy two. As has just been stated these could also be used by eastern region modellers. 

 

To be honest I would be very happy with either.

 

 

[Coach bogie]

21 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Mike (Wiltshire)

 

Just to confirm...are you voting just for Diag.L22, or the others too?

 

Brian

Just the L22

 

thanks

 

Mike