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A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.


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5 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Are you adding the missing window frames to your additional Hornby ones?  I still have one Hornby brake third which for some odd reason I didnt reskin with Comet sides when I did the rest of the rake, which really stands out missing those window vents.  I think someone did a good job adding them from a sticker a while back.

I did mine with a ruling pen and Humbrol enamel.

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11 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

 

However I was thinking more along the lines of the 'unusual and few ever built',  that they would think, no way we are going to sell more than a few of X even if Mr Sweet and his gang want one :read:! E.G. some of the ones we have been looking at on here.

Anyway, enough of Kits as Brian made the rule.

 

Hello Phil

 

Your comments are perfectly valid and in context.

 

It doesn't solve anything when people write in and exclaim "Why bother voting for those models when kits already exist!".

 

We know!

 

Brian

 

 

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20 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

However I was thinking more along the lines of the 'unusual and few ever built',  that they would think, no way we are going to sell more than a few of X even if Mr Sweet and his gang want one :read:! E.G. some of the ones we have been looking at on here.

 

Whether kits or RTR, often the "unusual and few ever built" are often the prototypes with the most potential.

 

For whatever reason we like to collect unique items, and from a kit perspective building one of X is far more attractive than having to make 10 or 20 of X...

 

Thus (examples in RTR because I don't follow kits enough) we have models of the LNER Dynamometer car, Consett Ore Wagons, 18000, GT3, Fell (both kit and RTR), Caroline Inspection car, etc.

 

So I wouldn't dismiss some of the poll results just because they were unusual or few.

 

As for other items - there is always the potential of the network effect.  More accurate GWR stuff means (potentially) more people interested in GWR models, which means more models become viable.

 

Look at the pre-grouping stuff - first one RTR loco, now more, which then lead to Hattons doing their generic coaches, then Rapido doing the SECR open wagons, etc.

 

And then there is the potential of 3D printing...

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22 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yes, I guessed that as well. Strange that all those years ago, Comet Coaches was born from three blokes who needed decent coaches for their layouts and they just couldn't get them back then. Thus they decided to get their own sides made and then thought, ooohhhh let's sell some to cover costs. Think it was sides first and then they went full Kit and Comet Models was the grown up version of the business. However, things have changed in over 35/40 years. 

However I was thinking more along the lines of the 'unusual and few ever built',  that they would think, no way we are going to sell more than a few of X even if Mr Sweet and his gang want one :read:! E.G. some of the ones we have been looking at on here.

Anyway, enough of Kits as Brian made the rule.

Sounds like something from a Tarantino movie. The Sweet gang in Pannier Dogs, with Spams as Mr. Malachite.

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GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll No.14: Autocoaches

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to the fourteenth and final GWR 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Poll. I am running this here with my friends, John Lewis, Chris Knowles-Thomas and Ian Taylor on Rob’s behalf.

 

Note from John:

 

Auto Trailers have been variously called ‘Push-pull’, ‘Motor Train,’ ‘Auto Coaches’, ‘Auto Cars’, ‘Auto Trains’, ‘Auto Trailers’ or simply ‘Trailers’.

 

To operate an ‘Auto Train’, you need a push-pull fitted tank engine or a Steam Railmotor (SRM) and at least one Trailer equipped with a driving compartment. This had to be coupled to the loco with the driving compartment at the opposite end to the engine. There were some Intermediate Trailers which did not have a driver’s compartment. They had to go between the loco and a driving trailer.

 

Only the Diag.A44 Driving Trailers were given trailer series numbers.

 

In order to generate some debate – and some ‘learning opportunities’ – please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selections. I copy all ‘Comments Received’ in order of receipt – but with names removed – and post them as a PDF with the Results.

 

Please note that we do not welcome comments that act as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’!

 

Here’s what to do…

1. You may vote for any or all of the items listed plus suggestions at 13 & 14 (if you so wish).

2. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR at ‘affordable prices’.

3. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 2, 4, 7 – with comments and explanations following.

4. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

Auto Trailers with Driver’s Compartment:

 

1 Diags.J & N of 1906/7

  • Churchward Wood-panelled 59ft 6in.

2 Diags.E, L, P, T & U of 1905

  • Churchward Wood-panelled 70ft.

3 Diags.Z, A6, A7 & A9 of 1915-1920

  • Churchward ex-Steam Railmotor Matchboarded 59ft 6¾in.

4 Diags.A10 & A31 of 1920-3 & 1933-4

  • Churchward & Collett ex-Steam Railmotor Wood-panelled 59ft 6in

5 Diags.A26 & A29 of 1928-36

  • Collett ex-Steam Railmotor Wood-panelled 70ft. Steam Railmotor No.93 became Diag.A26 Trailer No.212 which has now been rebuilt back to No.93. This is the subject of the Kernow model.

6 Diag.A27 of 1930

  • Collett Steel-panelled 59ft 6in

7 Diags.A28 & A30 of 1930-3

  • Collett Steel-panelled 62ft 8in.

Compartment Trailers:

Driving Trailers and Intermediate Trailers which often ran together.

 

8 ‘Clifton Downs’ Sets

  • Churchward's 1913 conversions of Dean Wood-panelled Low Roof Brake Thirds and Composites into Driving Trailers and Intermediate Trailers respectively.

9 Diag.A34 of 1939

  • Collett purpose-built compartment Driving Trailer.

10 Diag.A33 of 1937

  • GWR alteration of Collett Diag.D117 Brake Thirds.

11 Diag.A44 of 1955

  • BR alteration of Collett Diag.D117 Brake Thirds.

12 Diags.A41 & A42 of 1953

  • BR alteration of Collett Diags.C66 and C75 Thirds to Intermediate Trailer.

Suggestions

 

13 Your suggestions for Auto Trailers with Driver’s Compartment not listed.

 

14 Your suggestions for Compartment Trailers not listed.

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will acknowledge receipt of your vote via the ‘Thx’ tick box.

 

You have until midnight on Saturday 18 September. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Sunday 19 September.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Rob’s thread only and neither RMweb nor The 00 Wishlist Poll Team are specifically involved, apart from me, John, Chris and Ian in our ‘personal capacities’.)

 

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Hello everyone

 

I’m not actually voting for anything here as I have no requirements.

 

I can, however, see many of you voting as there is a wide gap in the market waiting to be filled.

 

Will Kernow will use their Steam Railmotor as a basis for a Diag.A26 Trailer?

 

Brian

 

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Another where the need for my modelling is a lot less pressing, having already almost finished an Airfix / Dart Castings upgraded example that already gives me one autocoach more than I need for Brent.

 

However, they do make for nice models and should a suitable model appear I would definitely buy one, (I really wish Bachmann had gone for a more useful GWR prototype rather than the BR only Hawksworth autocoach they have in the range.)

 

For voting purposes I am going to go for 5 Diags.A26 & A29 of 1928-36 mostly because I think with Kernow having already done the vast majority of the work, it would be the easiest to get to market.

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As my layout is 1950's South Devon, I'll vote for 6 (A27) and 7 (A28/A30) as my preferred choices - at a pinch I could see a use for 11 (A44), as one was used on the Brixham branch for a while before diesel railcars took over.

 

I have two of the old Airfix/Hornby autocoaches, which I appreciate are not strictly accurate, but re-painted and weathered they look the part - for some reason I have never taken to the Bachmann Hawksworth version.

 

Thanks once again for all the polls - will there be a summary of all the poll findings issued?

 

Pete

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I have no need of an auto trailer so no vote on this poll.

 

However.... If something 'nice' came along that was appropriate to Cornwall I might introduce a workman's service on the Drinnick Mill branch... No, no, no!  That would be daft, but...

 

Definitely no vote for me this time Brian.

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2, 3 and 8.

Not listed: One of the clerestory trailers.

Why:2:  The 70ft trailers were the most common type(s).

3. The Matchboarded trailers (ex-SRM) were distinctive and different.

8. The same goes for the Clifton Downs sets. An additional Intermediate trailer could be used as a hauled coach.

Not listed. I find the clerestory trailers interesting and different.

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23 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

Whether kits or RTR, often the "unusual and few ever built" are often the prototypes with the most potential.

 

For whatever reason we like to collect unique items, and from a kit perspective building one of X is far more attractive than having to make 10 or 20 of X...

 

Thus (examples in RTR because I don't follow kits enough) we have models of the LNER Dynamometer car, Consett Ore Wagons, 18000, GT3, Fell (both kit and RTR), Caroline Inspection car, etc.

 

So I wouldn't dismiss some of the poll results just because they were unusual or few.

 

As for other items - there is always the potential of the network effect.  More accurate GWR stuff means (potentially) more people interested in GWR models, which means more models become viable.

 

Look at the pre-grouping stuff - first one RTR loco, now more, which then lead to Hattons doing their generic coaches, then Rapido doing the SECR open wagons, etc.

 

And then there is the potential of 3D printing...

I think 'the unusual' will usually do well in r-t-r (probably far better than in kits) for the very simple reason that is is available and is 'something different' and the market has shown that approach can work.  But having said that it does need some very careful thought when building the business case and it can occasionally mean getting the numbers right, or right enough, particularly with locos where larger sums of investment cash are involved.   Odd ball coaching stock vehicles such as diners (sorry 'restaurant cars' to non big railway folk) will inevitably sell despite the fact that not every train had one but they are different so become 'a must have'.  The same goes for some NPCCS vehicles where something that bit different such as an Insixfish will sell better than 'more ordinary' vans - not everyone likes to add a BG to a train but a six wheel van is shorter and 'looks different' from the passenger coaches.

 

The key for a manufacturer will usually lie in picking the right think to sell in sufficient numbers to turn a profit as soon as possible plus getting it out at the right price for the level of detail and accuracy it offers.  who would have thought that 'yet another GWR freight brakevan' yet folk have clamoured Rapido into offering the 'Titfield Thunderbolt' brakevan as a separate item.  no surprise that the Loriot would be in demand as a separate item - but 'yet another brakevan'?  Demand can be a very odd think and many have found - witness all those Pre-Grouping locos of recent years - that you can create a demand for something which hadn't really been thought of previously. 

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Thank you to mdvie for bringing this to my attention; I would be delighted to register votes for the following:-

 

.1

.4

.6

.13. suggestions for trailers with drivers' compartment not listed, Diagram A20 and A21 ex Cardiff Railway, running numbers 142 and 143, and ex Taff Vale Railway twin sets gangwayed within the set, not sure of GW diagram number but running numbers 6423/2507 or 6422/2506.

 

1, 4 and the Cardiff Railway trailers, along with Clifton Downs driving trailer W 3338, were allocated to Tondu (and are thus suitable for my 'Cwmdimbath' layout), being allox TDU for the start of the 'regular interval' Cardiff Valleys timetable in 1953, not that the Tondu branches were every regular interval.  The intitial allocation consisted of gas lit trailers because it was thought that the low speeds on the Porthcawl branch would be unable to reliably charge electric lighting, shades of Hemyock, but electrically lit coaches were used successfully in later years.  The Taff Vale sets were not part of the initial allocation, but the Cardiff Railway trailers were found unsuitable for some reason and withdrawn (perhaps they'd reached the end of their useful lives anyway). 

 

The Taff Vale trailers appeared in 1954 to replace the Cardiff set, 6423/2507, replaced in 1956 by 6422/2506 which lasted until 1957.  I believe an A27 was at Tondu between 1954 and 58, and it would be a welcome addition as conversion from the Airfix/Hornby A30 is difficult.  I know that A30s W 189 W and W 192 W were working in the Tondu area during my period, and at least one steel bodied Collett trailer with a flush door that 'looks' shorter than an A28 in the photographs.

 

I accept that the Cardiff and Taff Vale trailers are a bit 'niche' even if they feel entirely normal from a South Walian perspective, and are very unlikely to ever be produced in RTR form, but I thought this would be a good opportunity to at least suggest them.  Presumably the poll is being conducted with a view to 'informing' RTR producers' market research; there is always the faint chance that one is looking for something a bit off the wall for their own reasons. but I'm not holding my breath.  Especially as they are in pairs, and one is running into the same cost/pricing problems as with multiple units*.

 

I keep trying to gently point Dapol in the direction of putting their 7mm Diagram N through the 4mm shrink ray, but some falls on stony ground...

 

 

 

7 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Will Kernow will use their Steam Railmotor as a basis for a Diag.A26 Trailer?

They'd be daft not to IMHO, as the A26 was the most numerous of the GW trailers and the nearest thing to a 'standard' class.  Sadly, I would not be interested, as TTBOMK 70' trailers did not work in South Wales, and certainly not in the Tondu valleys.

 

 

*Mike wrote his though-provoking treatise on oddball stock and marketing it while I was finishing this off; the two posts sort of compliment each other. 

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None of those listed but I would apply Rule to one of the ex TVR trailers because they looked so totally different from the GWR vehicles.  Definitely out of period but as I say Rule 1 can apply although the chances of even finding a drawing let alone producing one are very limited.  Otherwise I already have all the driving trailers I'm ever likely to need.

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