57xx's Workbench - more wagons and a Siphon C

[57xx]

I mentioned an update on the O-33 a few posts back. I've made a start on the chassis

 

 

The GW rivet press made short work of the solebar details, although a couple of times I was going a bit too fast and managed to miss the etched hole.  Hopefully they won't show once the model is completed. Folding the buffer beam ends was easy enough but the solebars were tricky due to their length. My Hold'n'Fold is only 5.5 inches, I'd never envisioned building brass kits this large when I bought it! I managed to find a couple of 12" steel rulers in the toolbox and tried using them with a couple of small vice clamps but didn't get very good results, so I ended up do small sections at a time on the hold and fold. The short depth of fold also made to hard to clamp but I got there eventually. 

 

Once both solebars were completed, I carefully soldered them to the floor, taking note of the instructions not to get too much solder on the insides so as not to obstruct fitting further parts. Ready for more progress to be made...

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by 57xx
Restoring pics

[Brassey]

On 11 July 2019 at 22:18, 57xx said:

As promised a step(board) by step(board) on fitting the stepboards to the MT chassis.

 

There's a couple of folds to do on the lower stepboard, but everything is straight forward and made easier with the hold'n'fold.

 

Once folded, I ran a fillet of solder down the fold lines to add a bit of strength.

 

The instructions recommend solder a bit of 0.45mm wire to the back of the hangers for added stiffness.

 

The upper stepboard fits into four slots on the chassis. The middle two tabs are easy to solder, a little care is needed on the ends due to the proximity of the white metal spring castings.

 

Once the upper board is fitted, you just need to solder the four lower hangers and job's a good 'un.

 

 

One side finished.

Seems a bit on the low side and have you run it through any platforms yet to check fouling?

Edited July 18, 2019 by Brassey

[57xx]

How many shades of grey was it?

 

In today's case, there's 5 (if you include white as the lightest shade of grey). Some time ago after reading the 1935 painting schedule of the LMS, I wondered what rough shade the roof of vans came out from the workshop with. Normally I just waft over van roofs with white primer and then weather down to varying degrees from there. However as the LMS  vans start off as a shade of grey first, I believe that will give me different results when weathering and also any recently out shopped vans will not look right with white.

 

In "The LMS Wagon" the specifications for roofs is given as:

 

Mix 6 Roof paint

Protective white paint paste   56lb

Thickened linseed oil                  4lb

Boiled linseed oil                         7lb

mixing varnish                             7lb

White spirit                             8-12lb

Black in oil                                    8lb

Aluminium powder                     7lb

Liquid drier   note more than    4lb

 

This gives us a rough ratio of 7:1:1 of white:black:aluminium.  So, out with the Humbrol white, black and some "Airframe Silver" paint I had. I added a dash of yellow as well as I'm assuming the "protective white paint paste" was lead based and wouldn't be a pure white. The result is shown below in the mixing jar.

 

It looks quite dark here but once sprayed and dry it is lighter. Shown below beside an LNER van with primer white roof for contrast, the middle roof plonked on the 7 planker had white primer and the roof perched on the van started off with grey primer. There was not a lot of visible difference in the end with the different base coats. The bodies of the LMS wagons are painted with Phoenix Precision LMS Freight Grey (one is tweaked slightly for variation) which is supposed to be an accurate representation.

 

 

So, is this roof colour accurate? According to the mix ratios, yes, however... my Airframe Silver paint is not pure pigment like the aluminium power would have been, so perhaps I should have upped the amount of that? The other thing to note is that Mix 5 Lead Colour For Wagons has a spec for 112lb Zinc White to 3-4lb Black in Oil and 3-4lb Ultramarine Blue in Oil. That's a ratio of  between 28:1:1 and 37:1:1, or you could say white:darker pigment is 14:1 to 18.5:1. That would be paler than the roof colour! So, the lighter roof to bodywork showing in my pics could be well off.

 

Never mind, it was a fun experiment even if it does not draw any definite conclusions.

Edited November 19, 2022 by 57xx

[57xx]

On 18/07/2019 at 22:33, Brassey said:

Seems a bit on the low side and have you run it through any platforms yet to check fouling?

 

I haven't got any platforms to check for fouling, but you are right, they are too low. I just used the fold lines on the etch to get the heights but after a) putting it next to a Hornby Toad and b) checking the pictures of 4 wheelers on the Penrhos site I can see the lower board is too low, it should be sitting midway up the axleboxes, not below them. 

[57xx]

A gaggle of more LMS vans are under construction (all Cambrian kits). Just as I thought they were ready for the paint booth and a waft of primer, I noticed I'd missed fitting the brake levers on the middle one. Then as I was working out which lever to stick on which side (clutch and non-clutch ones) it downed on me that the brakes are on back to front! Not only that, I'd also fitted them back to front on the left van. Only the right hand one is correctly put together with brakes "left over right" and Morton clutch on the lever. Time to get out the scalpel see how well I stuck them down.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by 57xx

[Guest WM183]

That will be a nice looking trio of vans. What makes are the buffers?

[57xx]

The outer pair are Lanarkshire Models & Supplies and the middle set with the black heads are from Dart Castings.

 

I think  I found why I got the brakes back to front - There is an 'F' moulded on one side of the brakes on the Cambrian kits. I was obviously not thinking at the time and assumed it meant F for Front (the detail on that side of the brakes is also better) and just stuck them on without thinking. Oh well! they came off easily enough and are now getting the Compound treatment* on the safety loops (cutting off the solid ones and replacing with microstrip).

 

* As seen on his D299 thread.

[Jub45565]

2 hours ago, 57xx said:

* As seen on his D299 thread.

 

Having gone across to find it, here is the link should anyone else not want to get distracted by the rest of the thread on the way!

 

 

I like the Cambrian LMS vans, but don't particularly like the solid brake lever bracket.  Craig Welsh levers are available from the Scalefour Society (available to non-members at Scalefour North & Scaleforum), but appreciate they do take a fair bit longer than gluing on the supplied part!

[57xx]

The Cambrian levers do leave a lot to be desired and etched ones would look better. There are a lot of other ones available (Masokits, Mainly Trains, Bedford etc) a lot more simply than ones that are only available twice a year to "normal" folk. I think I'd replace the whole brake gear though if I was going to go down the etch route.

[57xx]

The brakes came off a lot easier than I was expecting, but wouldn't have been an issue  as there are plenty of spares still on the sprue with these vans being single sided brakes. All have now had the safety loops modified and reattached the correct way round.

 

The last time I used my can of white Halfords primer I noticed it was getting low. I also noticed that it was extremely inefficient in as far as, that due to the spray pattern, I'm sure almost as much paint was being sucked out the back of my spray booth as was going onto my models. I bit the bullet and ordered some primer from Phoenix Precision to use in my airbrush that is a lot more focused than a rattle can and should be more efficient on paint usage. I usually get parcels delivered to work to save traipsing all over the place to pick up missed deliveries when I'm not around. The package got sent out on Wednesday this week, I got a call at 6:30pm on Thursday saying "don't come in to work for the foreseeable future, work from home now" due to Covid19. Typical, the parcel arrived at work on Friday!

[57xx]

Had a productive hour in the workshop this morning creating a new tool.

 

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Great work on those kits and a new tool, some kind of mitre?

[57xx]

The "tool" is a thingamabob... no idea of it's proper name

It's for soldering with an RSU, it' s a work surface to provide the ground plane for it, used as in this staged pic:

The aluminium fence is to give a 90* support if required and is held on with a couple of neodymium magnets glued to the back of it so it can be taken off if not required.

 

Before folding, I tinned the the parts that need to be soldered:

 

Then clamp it down using magnets to give a good earth connection before soldering:

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by 57xx
Restoring pics

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Nice one. Thank you for sharing, food for thought.

[macgeordie]

I like the new tool Ric, I assume the plate is just a piece of mild steel. Have you done anything to stop the flux making it rust or do you just clean it after each session?

 

That's an interesting kit, is it the Mallard/Blacksmith Siphon H ?

 

Ian

[57xx]

Hi Ian, yes it's just a bit of 1.5mm mild steel I had kicking round the workshop (well a section of it, I resisted the temptation to make a much larger surface but have enough to make a second, bigger, one if needs be). The earth connection is just an allen bolt countersunk into the wooden base. I found pics online of ones other RSU users had made when searching for general "how to"s on RSU use, so can't claim any originality! (other than maybe the use of the wingnut rather than a banana plug :p ) 

 

Since those pics were done I spent half an hour or so polishing it with various grades of wet'n'dry to get the surface smoother and make it easier to clean. After applying the detail to the sides, I just gave it a quick polish with some scotchbrite and it came up good again. I think I'll probably give it a coat of ACF-50 as well just to be sure, but I really don't think it needs it.

 

The kit is the Shirescenes Siphon C. I decided to use that as the guinea pig, having never used an RSU before. I would be far less distraught if I vaporized any components on that whilst getting my eye in than if I destroyed anything on the O33s!! Turned out it was a breeze to do.

[57xx]

It was actually quite therapeutic adding the detail etches. I was expecting it to be very tedious but after adding the first few hinges, got into the swing of it very quickly (and vapourised no parts!)

I used a combination of tinning the main etch for fixing the folds together and then solder cream for the tiny detail bits. I was amazed at how little is needed to fix the bits down.

 

[The Fatadder]

Looking really good, I keep thinking about doing a Siphon C (with Harris’s Sausages branding) so really could do with getting on and buying a shirescenes kit 

 

I still haven’t touched my O33 kit either, with the same logic that I don’t want to mess it up!  Same as with my TPO set.  Looking at your Syphon C build I think I really need to invest in an RSU!

[Bluemonkey presents....]

57 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

Looking really good, I keep thinking about doing a Siphon C (with Harris’s Sausages branding) so really could do with getting on and buying a shirescenes kit 

 

I still haven’t touched my O33 kit either, with the same logic that I don’t want to mess it up!  Same as with my TPO set.  Looking at your Syphon C build I think I really need to invest in an RSU!

That is exactly what I am doing with my siphon C builds I will have the Calne branch modelled leading off from my mainline station Chippenham. We are talking years and years though lol.

[Mikkel]

Very neat and clean work Ric.

 

Don't those sides just look 100% Great Western! 

[57xx]

On 19/04/2020 at 09:00, The Fatadder said:

I still haven’t touched my O33 kit either, with the same logic that I don’t want to mess it up!  Same as with my TPO set.  Looking at your Syphon C build I think I really need to invest in an RSU!

 

I'm finding the RSU really great. It is so much easier for attaching detail parts. I still use the regular soldering iron for other tasks, the two tools complement each other well.

[57xx]

Oh no... what have I done...?

 

I've finally got the Siphon C body soldered up into a box. I've got some brass strip that I am going to try and bend into an L section to brace the lower sides and fill the gap between the sides and chassis.

 

It was a bit of a pain, once both sides were soldered to one end, the weight of the sides was flexing the etched folds to the point one broke through. The corners are only connected by short sections at the top and bottom of the sides, with a big section day light in between. To reinforce them, I cut up some sections of 1.5mm angle that I'd bought for underframe trusses and soldered them into the corners as each one was folded into place. The messy solder blob on the side is where I temporarily fixed a short length of flat brass between the two sides, bridging the end, to stop if flexing whilst I worked on it..

 

Once the box was formed I was then able to fine tune the length of the chassis so that it just dropped into place.

 

One thing anyone eagle eyed may have noticed is that I have cut off the integral buffer beams from the ends! Not sure if that is something I will come to regret later, hence the "Oh no" title to this post. A couple of reasons were behind this - The Shirescenes ones seemed a little shallow compared to the drawings and also the Mainly Trains chassis so I though it would be better to use the ones that come with the chassis as otherwise they may not sit right and also cause buffer height issues.

 

Hopefully once the MT buffer beam overlay is fixed on they will sit flush with the ends. I'll then need to file off the raised detail on the overlay and re-add it as per the Siphon (I saved the drawbar plate from the Shirescene kit and will use some MT rivet strip to make the retaining strips). Something else that dawned on me is that the MT chassis seems to represent a wooden chassis whereas the Siphon C's had all steel chassis. Hopefully this won't be too obvious with the running boards on! You can also see the gaping chasm on the corner between the short side/end connection. Trying to decide whether to attempt filling with solder or wait to the end and use Plasto body putty.

 

I have some proper 2' buffers, gas lamp tops, 4'6" J hangers and Dean lamp irons on the way from Dart Castings. I might actually mail them back and inquire about the missing end detailing parts that should have come with the kit ( as highlighted in Matt's Chippenham Workbench).

Edited November 19, 2022 by 57xx
Carp speeling

[The Johnster]

On 18/04/2020 at 12:27, macgeordie said:

I like the new tool Ric, I assume the plate is just a piece of mild steel. Have you done anything to stop the flux making it rust or do you just clean it after each session?

 

That's an interesting kit, is it the Mallard/Blacksmith Siphon H ?

 

Ian

There you are, the new tool is called Ric, as in 'I like the new tool Ric'. Fixed that for you...

Edited May 9, 2020 by The Johnster

[57xx]

Slow progress. I'm not sure where all the time is disappearing to these days!

 

I dug out the Siphon C chassis to work on it. Folded the sides right over so I could reposition the V hangers properly, stuck the gas tank in, side overlays added and some filler strips to level the floor off for when I get to add the end brake handles.

 

After cutting up the 4 truss posts from some 1.5mm brass angle, I realised I had jumped the gun with the gas tank. There was no way either a soldering iron or the RSU probe would get in there. After a quick search on'tinternet, out came some Acetone to soften the epoxy used to fix the tank down, it was plain sailing to get the trussing fitted after that. The positioning of the vac cylinder was also tested (using Lanarkshire Model Supplies one). That will get epoxied down when I refit the gas tank. I think I'll be leaving as many whitemetal parts like them and the J hangers to as near the end as possible now.

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by 57xx

[57xx]

Whilst investigating the DCIII brake gear that the Siphon C's carried, I made a post over in the GWR Rolling Stock section to see if anyone had any clearer pictures or diagrams than I had found at that point. Some useful info came back, especially from @Coach bogie who pointed out the GWR Tool vans used the same chassis and posted a few pics to show the underside. This then triggered the memory that I actually had taken a load of pics of the mess and tool vans in readiness (hah) for doing the Haye Developments kits I have stashed away. Between Mike's pics and my own I now had enough to go on.

 

With all this new info to hand I had to start disassembling the chassis! the generic position of the gas tank on the MT etch was wrong for the Siphon and needed shoving right over to the edge, which would then allow the the required greater distance between the V hangers (unsolder the inner V and move it further over).

 

For the parts I needed I delved into my box of bits and dug out a Bill Bedford DCIII etch which provided the brake handle hangers, the brake handles, ratchet, intermediate bracket and some leavers. The etch is missing one of the tiny levers on the handle ends but it was easy enough to make up from a bit of scrap. The long lever on the centre V shaft was taken from a Mainly Trains DC brake etch. A new saddle for the gas tank was made from scrap brass. Once all put together with the rodding, the final result is as below

 

 

Footboards and axlebox/spring units, buffers and couplings to required to finish off.

Edited November 19, 2022 by 57xx