Signalling an extended Inglenook

[icn]

Hi all,

 

I'm designing a first layout, and somewhat unsure of signalling -- it's an extended Inglenook (i.e. an Inglenook, but adding an extra unconnected track with platform for posing stock). I've done a first draft design, with signals (the blue rectangle is the area which will be modelled, but could possibly be extended in the future):

 

 

Would this sort of signalling arrangement be appropriate? (There's a decent probability that I'll replace the signals with their mechanical equivalents.)

 

The layout is very roughly end of the 80s, region unknown, possibly somewhere in the vicinity of Glasgow.

 

A few things I'm unsure about:

1. On passenger platforms, buffer stops have red lights. Is the same necessary for the goods yard, or can I leave these buffer stops unsignalled?

2. For a small goods yard like this would levers directly next to the points be appropriate (the two points outside the modelled area would however be controlled from the signal box)?

3. Would a Right Away (RA) be appropriate on the platform signal ©?

4. Would a permanent speed limit sign be appropriate at the station exit, either at C or B?

5. Is the limit of shunt sign appropriate where it is, or can I somehow combine that with signal E, turn E into a full signal, and get rid of B?

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

(I'm currently looking into getting some books on signalling, as the internet resources I've found are still leaving me somewhat confused, as well as making me much more interested in the subject.)

[Joseph_Pestell]

Generally, this looks right to me, except position of A which should be beyond limit of shunt.

1. All should probably have lamps.

2. Yes

3. Probably not, unless platform is on a curve.

4. Only if the line is not suitable for speeds that can be attained by the trains that travel over it.

5. Only if the headshunt is long enough to be used for all shunting.

[icn]

Generally, this looks right to me, except position of A which should be beyond limit of shunt.

1. All should probably have lamps.

2. Yes

3. Probably not, unless platform is on a curve.

4. Only if the line is not suitable for speeds that can be attained by the trains that travel over it.

5. Only if the headshunt is long enough to be used for all shunting.

Ah, Thank you, clears most things up!

 

With regards to (5): I think here the headshunt will be long enough for all shunting (although I might yet change my mind). In that case would E be a full/main signal, along with a normal shunting signal below it (new diagram below)? And is it correct to assume that I don't need an explicit limit of shunt sign unless I allow trains to shunt onto the main line (i.e. the shunting signal would only allow trains into the headshunt)?

 

The new diagram (missing lighting for the bufferstops, and the headshunt should be relabelled to be a longer spur):

[The Stationmaster]

 At the moment for a very modern railway it looks oversignalled although that can vary with location and era (even the various sub-visions of 'modern') so it might be reasonable to assume signalling dating from 1960s/70s modernisation.  In that case your original plan is more or less right - the only 'big' problem is that signal C should be a 3 aspect signal (i.e. capable of showing either red, single yellow, or green) as it reads to a signal ( B) which can show a red aspect.  The arrangement in your second drawing is feasible although only really likely if there were a lot of trains starting from the sidings - otherwise there such just be the position light signal at ground level as you had it in your first plan.

 

As far as your questions are concerned -

1. Red lights on the passenger line stop block only (by 1980 it should be twin lamp one at each end of the beam on the stop block (see pic below).  Sidings stop blocks do not normally have lamps on them and haven't had ever except in very special circumstances.  Technically the headshunt stop block should have a white light but as often as not they didn't have a light at all.

2. yes.

3. Probably not - it is unlikely that a small station such as this would still be staffed in the 1980s or if staffed for part of the day would be very unlikely indeed to be staffed for all of it - so no RA indicator as there's no one there to work it at the times when trains are running.

4. Unusual but definitely not unknown.

5. No - you can't have a Limit of Shunt board which faces oncoming trains (especially as nowadays it consists of 2 red lights - if it was there no train could ever pass it!

The presence, or otherwise, of signal B is debateable and usually it would only have been provided if there was a good reason for it although I think in your situation it would be fair to assume it is there (so C becomes a 3 aspect signal as explained above).

 

[RailWest]

Mike - in a "modern" situation, then would not the Home signal 'A' be red/yellow???

 

Going back to basics though, what do we know about this imagined location anyway? Might it perhaps not be just at the end of a One Train Working section, so no signals at all and just a 2-lever ground-frame working access to the sidings? Does ICN actually want to have signals, or is he just assuming that they are needed?

[The Stationmaster]

Mike - in a "modern" situation, then would not the Home signal 'A' be red/yellow???

 

Going back to basics though, what do we know about this imagined location anyway? Might it perhaps not be just at the end of a One Train Working section, so no signals at all and just a 2-lever ground-frame working access to the sidings? Does ICN actually want to have signals, or is he just assuming that they are needed?

Indeed it would be a red/yellow 'Home' signal Chris - I didn't bother to say as much as it's off scene.

 

And yes, as I said, for a modern  track layout etc is is very oversignalled but it could well have been done like that in a 1960s rationalisation and still hanging-on (just) into the 1980s.

[RailWest]

I had assumed that everything to the left of 'Bridge' was off-scene. The OP also spoke about an "extra unconnected track with platform", tho' clearly there is a connection even if off-scene. So if it was assumed that yard connection was just a little bit further to the left, then - even if there was the amount of signalling depicted - it could (probably) all be legitimately off-scene as well. Which is why i wondered whether the OP needed to have any signals at all in the visible part, so in fact could ignore the subject other than as a theoretical exercise?

[Banger Blue]

(I'm currently looking into getting some books on signalling, as the internet resources I've found are still leaving me somewhat confused, as well as making me much more interested in the subject.)

Recently bought this book, the ABC Modern Signalling Handbook by Stanley Hall. I would definitely recommend it.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Signalling-Handbook-Stanley-Hall/dp/0711034621/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1364599083&sr=1-1