BRealistic Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Don't panic Alan. If you look at my Buildings and Line-side Structures thread, you will see that it is still a 'kit of (scratch-built) parts'. There is a long way to go before even the roof is on, let alone the smoke vent.Hi Paul, and what a great layout you're developing at Kelly Bray! Envious isn't the word, and I'm so glad I took a peek, as I do like the way you've treated the ground surface of the shed with it's inspection pit etc. Really helpful, as I've got all that to come. Seems there's so many gems 'tucked away' here on RMweb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Will now get the Louvres out of the way so I can get on with a bit of modelling!! ...and I’ll do it differently this time by referring to the photos As an opener, this is a ‘skeleton’ view. The whole unit is just sitting in place… and wasn’t stuck permanently until after it, and most of the main roof, was slated. It was easier that way. The 7 cross members precisely match the slope of the main roof, top and bottom and their size was basically what I thought would look right (having studied photos). You can see that the louvres themselves are made up in ‘units’; in my case 6 for each side. Both the louvre units and the cross members sit on a base. The all-important piece of ‘equipment’ is the jig I used to produce each louvre unit. It’s at lower left in this picture, and enlarged in the two that follow. A completed unit is sitting in the jig, and there’s another alongside (both rejects!). To the right again is an individual louvre board made from cereal box card, and it’s yellow because I brushed on some Colron Knotting Solution to give them a bit more strength (done before cutting the individual boards). They really do need to stay straight. The length I chose (for the boards) was calculated to ‘suit’ the ‘6-bay’ appearance I wanted to create… which I thought would look right on the model. The slope of the jig precisely matches the angle of model’s roof slopes. Between each of the louvre boards is a spacer made of a thicker piece of card, and I stuck one of the these to each of the boards before introducing them into jig… where one board + spacer is stuck on top of another. I didn’t build up whole units in one go, but moved from one unit’s construction to the next, allowing time for the PVA to get a grip before adding the next ‘board + spacer’. I chose to have 6 in each unit, which seemed about right, but some prototypes have more… or less. When gluing, it’s obviously important to ensure the boards fit snugly into the three faces of the jig, The open side allows you to see what you’re doing and make adjustments. I made 2 more units than I needed and discarded the two that were the least well aligned! With all the louvre units and cross members ready, I stuck them to the base; starting at one end with the first cross member, then adding the two opposing units (front and back) and the next cross member more or less at the same time. With the glue not quite set you can do your best to adjust them to make sure they’re sitting as they should…. All square and upright and aligned along the edge of the base. Take a breather, let the glue set a bit, and then continue with the next pair of louvre units and cross member. Luck would have it, my last cross member fitted perfectly at the end of the base, but as I was progressing, I did think it might have prudent to have used a longer-than-necessary base and to have cut it back to the edge of the last cross member. A too-short base would have been a challenge to put right! In the skeleton view up top you’ll have seen the louvre units don’t reach the top of the cross members they’re attached to. This isn’t a mistake! I had to make a judgment on how much of a gap I should leave between the top louvre board and the bottom of the fascia that runs the length of roof. It doesn’t want to be much different from the gap between each of the louvre boards, and I think I got it just about right, but there again, it could probably have been just a tiny bit narrower (by taking a smidgen off the top edges of the cross members). As I wanted to run ‘lead’ flashings along the bottom edge (made from the stuff wine bottles used to be capped with) I decided to add a second piece of card to the base to thicken it up and create a more obvious step, and this I did using good ol’ Nestlé card. The ‘lead’ material is lovely to work with (like the real stuff). Nice and malleable, and I was even able to pre-form the step in the 6 narrow strips I used on each side, tuck ‘em over the bit of the base that was showing beneath the bottom louvre board, squidge a bit against the narrow ‘face’ of the cross member (having made a tiny cut) and then lay ‘the rest’ over the slates of the main roof. That probably doesn’t cover my every move (including a bit of sanding of the louvre units to make their ends line up better before gluing!), but if anything’s unclear, please say so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain C Robinson Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 What delicacy and consistency of work...really quite an inspiration. Again, I shall adopt this method on my next loco shed job, in a month or so. Thank you for putting your thoughts up, as I suspected, I have learnt a lot from this thread, despite having been modelling almost every bloomin' work day since 1980! cheers, Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain C Robinson Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 And I don't doubt it for a single moment Sir! How then to preserve PYRUMA or PECOSCENE stonework. Carefully 'flood' it in the thinnest grade Superglue.This will crystalise the compound and turn it rock hard withiout effecting the colouring. Allan. Top tip, Allan. I had several models returned for re-working, after the blasted Peco Scene texture clay crumbled into dust. cheers, Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravy Train Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Hi Alan, That is a great job you have done there on that shed, is it Ashburton, I did one years ago based on Ashburton it looked similar. cheers Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 This is the Pecoscene-clad viaduct that has stood the test of time! 30 years, in fact, made when I was 'into' 2mm scale. The 'base' is plywood, and I'm sure I used neat wood glue to 'stick'it, and then flooded it with a diluted solution, possibly more than once. My warehouse (same date) wasn't so lucky!!... here shown when finished and then a year or so ago. Nice that the construction is exposed... which is something I'd forgotten about. The guttering is as per the engine shed! By the way,Iain, this is the model that has 'real' slates on the roof! Must have been crackers, but I was a conservation officer, and natural materials meant everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Hi Alan, That is a great job you have done there on that shed, is it Ashburton, I did one years ago based on Ashburton it looked similar. cheers Peter Thanks Peter... funnily enough I've just spent the last half hour being gob-smacked by your signal boxes! What an amazing collection you have, and all superbly constructed. No, it isn't based on Ashburton... which I know well, and is a little on the small side. I wanted to be able to 'park up' one of the new Hornby 2-8-2s so needed a bit more length, so I chose to make a freelance shed based on the appearance of the surviving buildings at Newton Abbot... which I thought looked really nice and would provide a challenge, with the window panels being recessed. Here's a pic of what I mean.. and I hope you can see the similarities!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain C Robinson Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 This is the Pecoscene-clad viaduct that has stood the test of time! 30 years, in fact, made when I was 'into' 2mm scale. The 'base' is plywood, and I'm sure I used neat wood glue to 'stick'it, and then flooded it with a diluted solution, possibly more than once. 01.jpg 02.jpg 04.jpg My warehouse (same date) wasn't so lucky!!... here shown when finished and then a year or so ago. Nice that the construction is exposed... which is something I'd forgotten about. The guttering is as per the engine shed! By the way,Iain, this is the model that has 'real' slates on the roof! Must have been crackers, but I was a conservation officer, and natural materials meant everything. Warehouse 2.jpg B05.jpg B03.jpg That warehouse is a really beautiful model, Alan.The wall texture without the clay is actually rather fascinating and not without it's merits, too! Real slate? Please tell me more! cheers, Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Real slate? Please tell me more! cheers, Iain Hi Iain Thinking back, I’d developed a mindset by then that made it difficult for me to accept the use of materials that weren’t ‘authentic’. In my job I was forever explaining to owners of Listed country houses, farmhouses, cottages and town houses and the like… No, I’m sorry, but you simply can’t use cement-based slates, upvc or aluminium windows and doors, hard cement renders, and plastic gutters, down pipes and shop-front signs… as they’ll undoubtedly harm the authenticity of the building’s architectural and historic character (the phraseology is coming back to me now!). So it was almost ‘by default’ that I had to follow the same approach with my modelling. The spoil heaps of a former slate quarry near Totnes were my source... and I soon got to know which were the best pieces to use. I mostly used hack saw and Stanley blades to bring the pieces down to 8x4mm blocks about 2mm thick, then turned to a single edge blade to split and quarter the blocks into thin slithers of 2x4mm . A bit of rubbing on sandpaper evened out their thickness… and ‘hey presto’ 2mm scale 24”x12” duchesses began to pile up! The last of the processes was the most painful… the prints of my two forefingers were absolutely blank! But I got round this by popping on one of those dimpled, rubber ‘thimbles’. I used poly cement to stick them, picking each one up with a tiny, dampened paintbrush. I should say ‘never again’, but I’ve got a few hundred at 4mm scale and might use them on a ‘ruined barn’ or something at the front of my ‘forthcoming’ layout! The lineside hut, to the left, is roofed in them, but I’m not happy with the way they’re laid (the courses are too wide) so it’s best I don’t enlarge the photo! Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain C Robinson Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Hi Iain Thinking back, I’d developed a mindset by then that made it difficult for me to accept the use of materials that weren’t ‘authentic’. In my job I was forever explaining to owners of Listed country houses, farmhouses, cottages and town houses and the like… No, I’m sorry, but you simply can’t use cement-based slates, upvc or aluminium windows and doors, hard cement renders, and plastic gutters, down pipes and shop-front signs… as they’ll undoubtedly harm the authenticity of the building’s architectural and historic character (the phraseology is coming back to me now!). So it was almost ‘by default’ that I had to follow the same approach with my modelling. The spoil heaps of a former slate quarry near Totnes were my source... and I soon got to know which were the best pieces to use. I mostly used hack saw and Stanley blades to bring the pieces down to 8x4mm blocks about 2mm thick, then turned to a single edge blade to split and quarter the blocks into thin slithers of 2x4mm . A bit of rubbing on sandpaper evened out their thickness… and ‘hey presto’ 2mm scale 24”x12” duchesses began to pile up! The last of the processes was the most painful… the prints of my two forefingers were absolutely blank! But I got round this by popping on one of those dimpled, rubber ‘thimbles’. I used poly cement to stick them, picking each one up with a tiny, dampened paintbrush. I should say ‘never again’, but I’ve got a few hundred at 4mm scale and might use them on a ‘ruined barn’ or something at the front of my ‘forthcoming’ layout! The lineside hut, to the left, is roofed in them, but I’m not happy with the way they’re laid (the courses are too wide) so it’s best I don’t enlarge the photo! Cheers Blimey Alan, that is taking prototype accuracy to surprising lengths! It is also amazing, though...I mean, you are splitting model slates the way real ones should be split...incredible. Mind you, this doesn't surprise me now since I have an idea of the sheer quality and determination that you put in your work. Now, as it happens, I have a 120 foot heap of slate outside my back door...I shall see what I can do! Thanks for the info, cheers, Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 And finally (promise), here’s my last ‘authentic as possible’ model… unfinished because two guys in white coats came and took ME away!!! It’s 7mm scale, and I gave it to a 7mm modeller years and years ago… but he returned it after deciding he couldn’t roof it in a way that would do it justice. Originally, of course, I was going to use natural slates! Like the viaduct, it could do with a new home! I’ve not taken photos before, but I can’t believe the door has a key hole and a nice slate-slab threshold! The fanlight’s made from the glass that transparencies/slides used to be sandwiched between. (Anyone under 30 odd will wonder what on earth I’m talking about!!). So too are the sliding sash windows. As far as I can recall, the mortar was polyfilla with a bit of black paint mixed in… oh, and the pink limestone walls are made from pink limestone chippings! I’d walk the path alongside the Dart near Totnes of a lunchtime collecting any bits with a flattish face. I’d be overjoyed when I found a piece with a right-angle… for the quoins and window reveals… they were few and far between. The good thing was, there were never many other walkers about! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain C Robinson Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Pendon, anyone? I can't believe you did this...that anyone would do this! There is such skill in placing the stones; it looks so realistic...I am bowled over! And you asked my advice on making model buildings?? You have obviously forgotten more than I will ever know! I often feel rather sceptical when folk say they are going to make dry stone walls from real stone, because then you have to effectively...well, build a dry stone wall...and I was brought up on a farm and have helped mend numerous walls so I know it's not easy. The stones are lighter in 4mm of course, but does anybody really have the patience? Well, now I see that you do, and the results are amazing! You have started me off on a dangerous course, because I have now got a nice chunk of finest Votty slate, about to be cut and split into 4mm slates...*insane chuckle*... cheers, Iain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Compared to building a brass engine kit (which I could never do), my stuffs easy peasy! It was a phase I went through... but I'll be staying with card, paper and Das from now on!.. although plastic might be a better bet for a signal box? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve22 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 No more! No more! I can't take any mooooore!!! It's all perfect and every picture and comment here means we 'lesser modelling mortals what of' move our work a shade nearer the bin! Seriously, I've learned something here from every single posting; words and pictures. And the simplicity of those ridge tiles - one of those 'Oh yes. of course' moments. Thanks, Alan, thanks to you all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Hi Alan, Just caught up with this thread and l must say what a fantastic job you are making of the shed, and the roof is really neat, great stuff.. George.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 You're so very welcome Steve, and it warms my heart that you've been able to glean a little something from our ramblings!! My problem is, I can't allow myself the luxury of doing a quick job beacuse it'll doubless turn out to be not as good as I know it could have been if I'd taken a little more time... and as I'm retired that's something I've got quite a lot of! I'm weathering 6 Hornby milk wagons at the mo, and they're all in pieces (in their indidual 'margarine' tubs) so I can take each part and get at every nook and cranny with my brushes! First up all the wheels: backs and axles then the fronts. Actually, the first thing I do before painting the underframes is sand down the 'rounded' buffers, so they're nice and thin... like Bachmann's. Straight away less 'toylike'. I use the sanding boards used to bring a point to pencils (Mine has the name Derwent on it). Easy to keep nice and straight, and finish with a light touch of wet'n'dry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 Sorry George, you popped in while I was replying to Steve! Thanks for your kind words, much appreciated... but I have to say I envy your skills in making those engines I've just had a look at. Totally and utterly beyond my capabilities, I'm afraid... it's always rtr for me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I've only just found this thread. Oh my word, the quality of work on this site never fails to astound me, and this is no exception. I'm going to spend lunchtime reading this thread properly to take it all in! Superb!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Alan: The ridge tile idea...genius! I shall be using that idea right away. I note that your slates look just the right thickness, too. cheers, Iain So will I! I wish I'd seen this thread before last night! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hope you like one of the Nestle brand of breakfast cereals freebs... it really is the card to use! While I'm here I might as well say I'm back on the shed again, after a bit of wagon weathering and having taken an age to decide on the colour for the slates... a 1:4 mix of 'Softest Blue' and 'Flintstone' (Darkish Grey) from the Wilko tester-pot range. First coat has gone on... and looks a bit blotchy, so next will be adding a bit more to create better definition. I'll post a photo or two when I'm happy with it!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted May 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 10, 2013 I hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm abroad now, which type of Nestlé cereal do you go for? Hopefully none with marshmallows, there's a time for them and breakfast time really isn't it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hope you like one of the Nestle brand of breakfast cereals freebs... it really is the card to use! While I'm here I might as well say I'm back on the shed again, after a bit of wagon weathering and having taken an age to decide on the colour for the slates... a 1:4 mix of 'Softest Blue' and 'Flintstone' (Darkish Grey) from the Wilko tester-pot range. First coat has gone on... and looks a bit blotchy, so next will be adding a bit more to create better definition. I'll post a photo or two when I'm happy with it!! I've already discovered the delights of Cheerios card for Roofing one of my buildings, however after gluing on the tiles with PVA, found out without adequate bracing underneath it was a bit of a warping disaster. I'm definitely going to be trying the ridge tile method though - that's inspired! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 As far as I'm aware, JCL, all the Nestle packets are made of the same card. Unlike Kellogs, it's a nice white colour. Feels a bit 'crisper' too and seems to cut cleaner. Their 'Fruitful-' or 'Superfruity-' Shredded Wheat range suits 'grown-up' tastes, although I do have a liking for Honey Cheerios! As freebs 'points out' (!) it's not thick enough to be 'structural' but good where you need another layer. I 'cleaned up' the interior of the shed with some before adding a texture coating of Unibond's No More Cracks and applying a light dusting of some sooty weathering powders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhymad Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I've really enjoyed reading this thread, the work that some of you modellers put in is mindblowing, I've only started modelling in the last couple of years and I'm in my seventies, so I'm afraid I'll never be able to come up to your standards but I'll still enjoy reading about them and viewing the excellent photos. Keep up the good work guys! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JCL Posted May 11, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2013 I second that rhymad, this has been a very educational thread; I know I've learnt a lot here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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