David C Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I need a brake compo for my BLT, Woodstowe, and rather fancy a toplight version, some of which ended up on branch lines towards the end of their days. Despite all the polls, I'm sure it will be a couple of years or longer before we see any RTR models, so was toying with the idea of building a kit. Dart Castings market the erstwhile Frogmore Confederacy sides/ends of a toplight to dia E82 and was thinking about marrying this to a Coopercraft ex Slaters model.Has anyone any experience of either the Frogmore or Slaters kits or got any thoughts about the viability of marrying the two together? (I'd also like one of the concertina 70' slip coaches that were used on the Faringdon and Newcastle Emlyn branches, but that's likely to be way beyond my scratch/kit building abilities!) David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 David Geen does an E83. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 David Geen does an E83. I'm slowly building one - it's very nice, if a little fiddly in places. For example I've just soldered on the separately etched backing plates for each door handle. Mine was £82 including a resin roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggy1969 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 You could use a comet floor and roof cooper craft bogies and fitting from comet or David geen or a dartcastings roof The frogmoor are nice kits or worsley works do some top lights and Allen will do other diagrams that he ain't listed I've grafted sides to Hornby 57 footer sorted end and under frame out and got reasonable top lights out of it but it depends how far you want to go If you want the dogs then its a David geen kit as Pete has mentioned Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Yorkie Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 How about marrying the sides with a PC/Wheeltapper kit? There's loads of those kits for sale at shows, eBay and so on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Thanks to you all for responding. You have all certainly given me food for thought. I suspect I'll try the Frogmore version to kick off with in conjunction with parts from other makers. Its been a long time since I last tackled anything out of etched brass, so the easier, the better from my point of view. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 There is a third option. Mallard Blacksmith produced an E95 Brake compo. This is the bottom coach below. (mine has been converted to a F20 single ended slip, but both sides are common to E95/F20). Out of the three, this is the most straight forward construction with the least parts, mainly as it is an old kit dating back to at least the 1970's Middle coach is the Frogmore E85. This is a body only kit. The basic shell is straight forward, but you do have to supply your own underframe, though CSOP/Hayes are devloping a suitable underframe (CSC 13). http://www.cspmodels.com/4mm_CoachKits.php My underframe is made from plasticard with David Geen queen posts, fittings, roof and bogies. Note. This comes with separate bollection window frames and they are VERY fragile. There is no easy way to remove them from the fret without damaging them. Expect to spend some time bending them back to shape if you use them. I lost any patience and decided not to bother with them in the end but no one has noticed. Top one is the David Geen E83. Complete kit. More complex than the Blacksmith but greater level of detail and straight forward, logical assembly sequence. Again bollections are fragile but mine did not distort when removing from the fret. Not much to say, though I have built several Geen kits now and appreciate the construction techniques. Nice kit. The Hayes F13 Concertina, although an old kit, again 1970's I think, is somewhat demanding as ALL the doors are separate castings and require fixing in place, with no guides on the inside. In addition they must be fixed with the strongest bond possible. I used solder and lots of it. This is the weakness (as is the Pendon and Geen Concertinas). If a door is not fixed adequately, just picking the coach up pops them out. Fine during construction, when you can do something about it, not so good if the coach is finished and painted. They look superb when finished, just do not skip on making the shell as strong as you can. As they say 'The choice is yours' Good luck Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted March 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2013 Ni Mike A very good selection of brake compo's, I have several David Geen and Haye development kits in the pending box. Cheers SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Assembled PC toplight Brake Compo if anyone interested here. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXCELLENT-KIT-BUILT-GWR-CORRIDOR-COMPOSITE-COACH-/350755115396?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item51aaa25184 Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kits from Somerset Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 There is a third option. Mallard Blacksmith produced an E95 Brake compo. This is the bottom coach below. (mine has been converted to a F20 single ended slip, but both sides are common to E95/F20). Out of the three, this is the most straight forward construction with the least parts, mainly as it is an old kit dating back to at least the 1970's Mike Wiltshire Mike I cant seem to find any information on the F20 in any books I have got which includes the Russell (coaches part 2 and appendix part 2) and Harris one. So were they converted and where can I find the information on these as there are spare slip ends in the range so will be very easy to do this as a kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted April 1, 2013 Author Share Posted April 1, 2013 Mike: Posting pics of your models was very kind and greatly appreciated, along with your very helpful advice - just what I was looking for! What you say about the Frogmore's bollections means that it has slipped off my list. Modelling bollections is what has put me off even attempting to scratchbuild GW coaches. I might just wait until Coopercraft reintroduce the Blacksmith range.Kits From Somerset: That's a hint! Info and drawings on F20/E95s is on page 75 of Russell Coaches part 2. Best wishes and thanks David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kits from Somerset Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Mike: Posting pics of your models was very kind and greatly appreciated, along with your very helpful advice - just what I was looking for! What you say about the Frogmore's bollections means that it has slipped off my list. Modelling bollections is what has put me off even attempting to scratchbuild GW coaches. I might just wait until Coopercraft reintroduce the Blacksmith range. Kits From Somerset: That's a hint! Info and drawings on F20/E95s is on page 75 of Russell Coaches part 2. Best wishes and thanks David C I should have looked under E95 as well as the F20. But Russell book says the corridor connection on the F20 is only at the guard end when it is only at the compartment end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I should have looked under E95 as well as the F20. But Russell book says the corridor connection on the F20 is only at the guard end when it is only at the compartment end. It is another one of the Russell gems. The Great Western Study Group Newsletter has compiled a rather long list of corrections to the four volumes, courtesy of John Lewis and others. Page 76 in Russell vol 2 has pics of both the E95 and F20 (though Russell labels the image F21 in my edition but as the F21 is a 70ft vehicle, something not correct here). Same image appears in Vol 2 appendix Page 12 (under the F13 heading and clearly stating again it is a 70ft vehicle?????). The three coaches were numbered 6962-6964 were produced specifically for the Paddington - Ilfracombe service, being slipped at Taunton. They remained dedicated to this service until approx 1934. Slip gear was removed during 1940/1. In the Dave Smith era a customer could specify the slip extras when ordering the E95 direct and a standard E95 would arrive with an addional end and gas cylinders, I presume from the Blacksmith F16 kit. The slip ends were also sold separately on the 'parts' board of his stand. Excellent idea to bring back the slip option, either as a dedicated kit or as an 'add on' to the E95. Could be tempted with another myself. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 3, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2013 Looking at my web site C28, C30, C31, C32*, C35 all possible C32 best choice D46 as DW139* D47 D62 E83, E88 G43, G62* * I would buy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Looking at my web siteC28, C30, C31, C32*, C35 all possible C32 best choice D46 as DW139* D47 D62 E83, E88 G43, G62* * I would buy Most of your list are/have been available as sides/kit. C32 as complete kit from David Geen or sides only from Worsley Works or Trevot Charlton D46 as sides From Trevor Charlton, body from Frogmore, Whitewash version from Bill Bedford G62 as sides from Hammond/Comet or complete kit from Comet Others G33 & G54 rebuild sides/ends from Tony Hammond, E83, C33 (from C38) David Geen complete kit, C28, E88, D47 from Blacksmith and Slaters/Coopercraft as complete kits. C31 from Trevor Charlton Only C30/35 I do not think has been available. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I believe the Slaters instructions say that their C28 kit can also be used to make a C32 (that is the other all third, isn't it?). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newport_rod Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Has anyone any experience of .... the Slaters kits David C You may want to look at the Guy Williams article, The Best Coach Kit Yet?, in MRJ Issue 66 (1993) p.256 and Stephen Williams' book The 4mm Coach Part One pub WSP. Cheers Rod Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I believe the Slaters instructions say that their C28 kit can also be used to make a C32 (that is the other all third, isn't it?). Adrian Interested how unless alot of glasspaper is used as the C28 is panelled and the C32 is steel sided. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 5, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2013 Most of your list are/have been available as sides/kit. C32 as complete kit from David Geen or sides only from Worsley Works or Trevot Charlton D46 as sides From Trevor Charlton, body from Frogmore, Whitewash version from Bill Bedford G62 as sides from Hammond/Comet or complete kit from Comet Others G33 & G54 rebuild sides/ends from Tony Hammond, E83, C33 (from C38) David Geen complete kit, C28, E88, D47 from Blacksmith and Slaters/Coopercraft as complete kits. C31 from Trevor Charlton Only C30/35 I do not think has been available. Mike Wiltshire Most of these are preserved. Can't find anything out about the white wash coach any search comes back here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Can't find anything out about the white wash coach any search comes back here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57731-the-whitewash-car-w-139-w/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kits from Somerset Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Most of these are preserved. Can't find anything out about the white wash coach any search comes back here http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=135 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 6, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2013 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57731-the-whitewash-car-w-139-w/I meant the model! I have a photo I took of it somewhere, only in B&W going through Gloucester Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I believe the Slaters instructions say that their C28 kit can also be used to make a C32 (that is the other all third, isn't it?). Interested how unless alot of glasspaper is used as the C28 is panelled and the C32 is steel sided. My mistake - they say it can be made into a C31, primarily by using different bogies. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I meant the model! 4mm 2360/139/DW139/Whitewash Coach from Bill Bedford etches Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2013 4mm 2360/139/DW139/Whitewash Coach from Bill Bedford etches Mike Wiltshire Nice model - just need to source the parts, not sure what bogies it ran on, when I saw it I don't think it was B4, and I don't think it was 7' GWR. 1979 or 80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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