What have you done with your Keyser kit

[Beechnut]

Thanks that's a very kind offer, but mine's a late kit with the plain 'D' axles and the wheels are just a push fit, so they may not be compatible.

Thought mine was a late one although I'm not sure how you tell the difference. It came in a large flat box.

 

Brendan

[hayfield]

Brendan

 

The late ones were in the large flat boxes, with the wheels that had plastic spokes, normally with the axles having a flat on both ends to fit the D shaped holes in the wheels. I have seen one set of Keyser wheels with round ends to the axles and round holes in the wheels. 

 

It may have been that the previous owner had the wheels altered and supplied new axles !!

[Beechnut]

Brendan

 

The late ones were in the large flat boxes, with the wheels that had plastic spokes, normally with the axles having a flat on both ends to fit the D shaped holes in the wheels. I have seen one set of Keyser wheels with round ends to the axles and round holes in the wheels. 

 

It may have been that the previous owner had the wheels altered and supplied new axles !!

I was as surprised to discover the axles were EM, none of the seals were broken on the inner packaging. Could the kits be ordered in EM?

[cctransuk]

Brendan

 

The late ones were in the large flat boxes, with the wheels that had plastic spokes, normally with the axles having a flat on both ends to fit the D shaped holes in the wheels. I have seen one set of Keyser wheels with round ends to the axles and round holes in the wheels. 

 

It may have been that the previous owner had the wheels altered and supplied new axles !!

 

I thought that the axles for the K's wheels with D holes were D-shaped throughout their length.

 

I remember quite a bit of controversy at the time about how such axles would perform in the axle bushes.

 

They's probably wear them out very quickly, as they'd act as reamers!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

There were the first issue which had screws at each end and were made from thick walled tube, turned down at the ends and with a flat. I have also seen as you say solid rod with a full length flat, then one set of wheels with round holes and round rod !!

[Beechnut]

John

 

Two out of the three axles are 'D' throughout their length. I did wonder what the wear characteristics might be, not that any of my locos do any distance.

The fact that one axle is only 'D' at the ends demonstrates that K's were quite capable of producing them without.

 

Brendan

[hayfield]

I was as surprised to discover the axles were EM, none of the seals were broken on the inner packaging. Could the kits be ordered in EM?image.jpegimage.jpeg

 

 

From what I have herd EM gauge kits could be ordered, I guess had EM gauge chassis spacers as well as axles

 

The 57xx could be ordered with an early roof. I think one of the GWT tender engines could be ordered with a variation to the standard kits, and don't forget the range of GWR 4-4-0's which were standard

[cctransuk]

John

 

Two out of the three axles are 'D' throughout their length. I did wonder what the wear characteristics might be, not that any of my locos do any distance.

The fact that one axle is only 'D' at the ends demonstrates that K's were quite capable of producing them without.

 

Brendan

 

That's right - the gear wheel was white nylon with a D-shaped hole, so that you didn't need a grub screw to lock it!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

John

 

Two out of the three axles are 'D' throughout their length. I did wonder what the wear characteristics might be, not that any of my locos do any distance.

The fact that one axle is only 'D' at the ends demonstrates that K's were quite capable of producing them without.

 

Brendan

 

 

It may be that the two solid axles + their wheels were replacements to the original ones which were damaged ?

[Beechnut]

John/John

 

Interesting that you mention the 'D' shaped bore on the gear wheel. The drawing suggests filing a flat on the axle for the grub screw!

As you can see from the pic it's definitely a 'D'.

The spacers were for OO so I turned a couple of longer ones to suit EM.

[Jeff Smith]

Out of curiosity I opened my bubble pack 63xx to check whether there is room for P4 wheels inside the splashers - looks fine. The axles are OO with flats only on the ends. A surprise was the worm and wormwheel both in brass. However the motor does not have the moulded on g/b sides like the one pictured above. Apparently it attaches to two of the frame spacers with mesh adjustment by cardboard shim!

[hayfield]

Out of curiosity I opened my bubble pack 63xx to check whether there is room for P4 wheels inside the splashers - looks fine. The axles are OO with flats only on the ends. A surprise was the worm and wormwheel both in brass. However the motor does not have the moulded on g/b sides like the one pictured above. Apparently it attaches to two of the frame spacers with mesh adjustment by cardboard shim

 

 

You have one of the first generation of the HPM motor, bin it they are so weak and unreliable

[hayfield]

John/John

 

Interesting that you mention the 'D' shaped bore on the gear wheel. The drawing suggests filing a flat on the axle for the grub screw!

As you can see from the pic it's definitely a 'D'.

The spacers were for OO so I turned a couple of longer ones to suit EM.

 

 

The one thing about k's was that they tried to develop their kits as well as their range, starting to include plastic parts into their kits and even plastic kits

 

Example is the 6 wheel syphon started off as all whitemetal, then a plastic body on a whitemetal chassis, finally an all plastic kit

 

Wheels (drivers) started with pre quartered wheel sets, then the plastic spoke range came in with axles that had screws at the ends, then just plain axles with the flat milled the whole length of the axle. In one kit (bought second hand) there was a set of wheels with round holes and axles, but on reflection these may have been Maygib wheels

 

The original motor was I think 3 pole, then there was the 5 pole Mk 1 & 2 motors, followed by the HMP early version without the brackets for the axles

 

K's always tried very hard to be a low cost complete kit range achilles, in doing so there were compromises to keep costs down. Its achilles  heal was always thought to be initially in the chassis area, firstly with the keyhole shaped axle holes in the frames for the first generation of kits. Then came the wheels with plastic centres which were very easy to damage. Finally the introduction of the HMP motors.

[Jeff Smith]

You have one of the first generation of the HPM motor, bin it they are so weak and unreliable

It is an HP2M, is that still bad? How about the brass gears?

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, all,

 

I've just completed a project to convert an old K's Dean tender into part of a weed-killing train, whose real function is to clean my layout's track. Details are here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/141543-track-cleaning-train/

 

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[hayfield]

It is an HP2M, is that still bad? How about the brass gears?

 

 

Sorry my bad memory, yes that's the one. They do work after a fashion, but both loose power and wear all too easily as there are no bearings

[Jeff Smith]

Sorry my bad memory, yes that's the one. They do work after a fashion, but both loose power and wear all too easily as there are no bearings

I guess a DS10 or equivalent is a better bet!

[hayfield]

I guess a DS10 or equivalent is a better bet!

 

 

Jeff if possible go for a can motor, this side of the pond in 4mm scale we use Mashimas (whilst stocks last) or better still coreless.

 

I have a couple of locos with DS10's in them made by others, but using them myself I have had issues.

 

The biggest improvement is using gearboxes. I find High Level ones work straight out of the box 

http://173.254.28.51/~highlev3/chris/Pages/gearboxplanningpage.html

Simple motor mounts are a no no

Also used a Branchlines gearbox, the version I used needed a slight tweak with the fixing holes (something I have not had to do with High Level), also makes from SEF, Slaters, Alan Gibson etc. 

 

Also might be worth replacing cast whitemetal motion (moving) parts (connecting rods, crossheads etc)

 

Sadly these things do push up the cost a bit, but many a good body is spoilt by a poor working mechanism

 

The other thing is to keep an eye out for inexpensive spares, I bought 2 Southeastern Finecast E1 etched chassis  one with Romford/Markit drivers and a DS10 all for £35 inc postage, which is the cost of one chassis. As it happens I have a Southeastern Finecast E1 without a chassis, the other chassis will be used for a SEF E2 I think its nearer to an E2 wheelbase than the Hornby replacement one . Tot up £70 worth of chassis, £35 worth of wheels and axles and £15 worth of motor and gears, without adding postage its about 1/4 of the cost of buying new

If only I kept the 18 mm wheels I could sell the rest individually for more than I paid for them 

 

I will have to spend out on a couple of gearboxes, plus I will try the DS10 but with a flywheel.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jeff if possible go for a can motor, this side of the pond in 4mm scale we use Mashimas (whilst stocks last) or better still coreless.

 

I have a couple of locos with DS10's in them made by others, but using them myself I have had issues.

 

The biggest improvement is using gearboxes. I find High Level ones work straight out of the box 

http://173.254.28.51/~highlev3/chris/Pages/gearboxplanningpage.html

Simple motor mounts are a no no

Also used a Branchlines gearbox, the version I used needed a slight tweak with the fixing holes (something I have not had to do with High Level), also makes from SEF, Slaters, Alan Gibson etc. 

 

Also might be worth replacing cast whitemetal motion (moving) parts (connecting rods, crossheads etc)

 

Sadly these things do push up the cost a bit, but many a good body is spoilt by a poor working mechanism

 

The other thing is to keep an eye out for inexpensive spares, I bought 2 Southeastern Finecast E1 etched chassis  one with Romford/Markit drivers and a DS10 all for £35 inc postage, which is the cost of one chassis. As it happens I have a Southeastern Finecast E1 without a chassis, the other chassis will be used for a SEF E2 I think its nearer to an E2 wheelbase than the Hornby replacement one . Tot up £70 worth of chassis, £35 worth of wheels and axles and £15 worth of motor and gears, without adding postage its about 1/4 of the cost of buying new

If only I kept the 18 mm wheels I could sell the rest individually for more than I paid for them 

 

I will have to spend out on a couple of gearboxes, plus I will try the DS10 but with a flywheel.

John,

 

well designed motor mounts work very well and most of my locos have them, with Mashima can motors.

 

DS10's suffer from having long shafts which can deflect slightly so the worm should be mounted as close to the motor bearing as practical. The motor was apparently originally designed for use in US bogie diesel loco models, where the drive went to two gear gear towers through drive shafts. It became popular in the UK because it was arguably better than any small motor already availble here.

 

Flywheel effect increases with the square of speed and are not so effective at low speeds, which is where we really want it.

 

Jol

[hayfield]

Jol

 

Thanks,

 

I have noticed now that there is a new choice of gears and worms from Markits more like those used by High Level, but I do struggle with motor mounts.

 

The second chap (not Dave) on the Southeastern Finecast stand suggested getting the motor mount / gear meshing done first by use of shims, before fitting into the chassis, something I have found unnecessary with High Level Gearboxes.

 

High Level gears are superior to the Romford type I am used to. Also I like the facility to be able to alter the height of the motor in the chassis and the position of the gear tower, But then many things in chassis building is down to personal preference, and they seem to work straight out of the box without any tweaking

[Coach bogie]

Sorry my bad memory, yes that's the one. They do work after a fashion, but both loose power and wear all too easily as there are no bearings

It is down to what locomotive you put them in. I have a couple working, but there are in a L&M Lion and Thunderbolt, which only have to haul a couple of vehicles.

 

I defend K's but supplying the HP2 motor with a Beyer Garrett ???????????

 

When I last saw his layout many years ago, the impressive collection of 1800 locomotives by Mike Sharman made extensive use of the K's  motors. See how well these run

 

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Sandhole]

[

It is down to what locomotive you put them in. I have a couple working, but there are in a L&M Lion and Thunderbolt, which only have to haul a couple of vehicles.

 

I defend K's but supplying the HP2 motor with a Beyer Garrett ???????????

 

When I last saw his layout many years ago, the impressive collection of 1800 locomotives by Mike Sharman made extensive use of the K's  motors. See how well these run

 

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

I'm with my mate Mke!!

I have an HP2M in a very old Centre Models Austerity. The thing gets as hot as a nuclear reactor after a bout of shunting, but it gets better and better!! Indeed, the way in which she runs now has stayed my hand on re-chassising her!!

I don't have Mikes' finesse of skill, but then she is 30 odd years old.I do have a large soft spot for her!!

                                                                                                           Chris.

                                                                         

[Jol Wilkinson]

Jol

 

Thanks,

 

I have noticed now that there is a new choice of gears and worms from Markits more like those used by High Level, but I do struggle with motor mounts.

 

The second chap (not Dave) on the Southeastern Finecast stand suggested getting the motor mount / gear meshing done first by use of shims, before fitting into the chassis, something I have found unnecessary with High Level Gearboxes.

 

High Level gears are superior to the Romford type I am used to. Also I like the facility to be able to alter the height of the motor in the chassis and the position of the gear tower, But then many things in chassis building is down to personal preference, and they seem to work straight out of the box without any tweaking

John,

 

I haven't seen the "new" Markits gears, the download Catalogue I have is dated 2013 and the new products and News page of the website doesn't show anything.

 

Jol

[5050]

Mike Sharman's layouts are amazing.  That dual gauge trackwork - with even a narrow gauge line crossing through a dual gauge point - brilliant.  The locos with the K's motors do sound - by today's standards anyway - to be rather 'growly' but they certainly run OK!

 

Anyone know how Mike is these days.  I haven't seen or heard about him for ages.

Mike Sharman's layouts are amazing.  That dual gauge trackwork - with even a narrow gauge line crossing through a dual gauge point - brilliant.  The locos with the K's motors do sound - by today's standards anyway - to be rather 'growly' but they certainly run OK!

 

Anyone know how Mike is these days.  I haven't seen or heard about him for ages.

 

Edit - sorry about the duplication, must be due to the 'delay' situation!  Sort of apt really - dual gauge post!

Edited January 22, 2019 by 5050

[micknich2003]

Mike Sharman's layouts are amazing.  That dual gauge trackwork - with even a narrow gauge line crossing through a dual gauge point - brilliant.  The locos with the K's motors do sound - by today's standards anyway - to be rather 'growly' but they certainly run OK!

 

Anyone know how Mike is these days.  I haven't seen or heard about him for ages.

Mike Sharman's layouts are amazing.  That dual gauge trackwork - with even a narrow gauge line crossing through a dual gauge point - brilliant.  The locos with the K's motors do sound - by today's standards anyway - to be rather 'growly' but they certainly run OK!

 

Anyone know how Mike is these days.  I haven't seen or heard about him for ages.

I have seem elsewhere that Mike Sharman died 2012 or 13.