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What have you done with your Keyser kit


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7 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I've got one of those somewhere. You'll need the Garratt in the previous post to move it.  :prankster:

 

Mine was fine if used with my K's 14XX, but the Airfix one struggled with it.

 

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Not exactly lightweight are they:fie:.  I’ve got two of ‘em, the other in BR crimson with plated toplights (Milliput); a Bachmann 4575 can manage one + a plastic Hornby A30, not a Baccy A38, and that’s on the level.  Mine have Stafford Road/Shapeways bogies which run very freely, as the Americans supplied with the kit are incorrect for a trailer with double doors to the passenger vestibule, rebuilt from SRMs originally supplied by Gloucester RCW. Single door versions are built at Swindon.  
 

A31s can have fishbellies or Collett 7’ if they are Gloucesters, and Americans as well if they are Swindon built. 

 

Certainly all of the K's kits (coaches and wagons) whether 4/6 wheeled or bogie are transformed when they are built with pin point bearings and wheels, this infact goes for most of the kits from other manufacturers of a similar age. I have also found with the 4 & 6 wheeled coaches are improved further by using etched W irons (K's kits are renown for having out of line axleboxes). 

 

We all know plastic kits are improved where plastic wheels are changed to metal ones and weight is added, and bogie coaches are improved when plastic bogies are changed for either cast or cast and etched ones. I have some Kirk Southern bogie coaches waiting for new metal bogies, so its not just a problem with k's kits

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Dick doesn’t do the internet.  However, his layout appeared in BRM many years ago (1996? It’s the same issue as the equally lovely  Westcliff ) and was at the show along the GCR heritage railway show in 2018 or 2019 I think so some RMWebbers might have pics. I need to catch up with Dick soon as I should have an S7 bar sided fish wagon for him in the next week or so, so I’ll ask him then if he’ll send some pics to post on his behalf.

 

DrDuncan 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just realised that I have some photos of the chassis of 5810 -

 

336448187_58xxBodyandChassis.JPG.fb3e14c7768747dbab329d12cf0fa914.JPG

 

257506768_58xxChassisfromtop.JPG.425ffaac566b0303d70a546516d50217.JPG

 

1752360729_58xxChassisfrombelow.JPG.bd1f1664b112c0a8cbc4b5a628fddca1.JPG

 

Very much of its day and showing its OO ancestry with the original square K's frame spacers.

 

Looking at that long length of motor shaft, a flywheel may be a good addition?

 

 

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Referring back to the discussion on page 39 concerning P D Hancock's K's kits and equipment and in particular the J72.   A replacement loco was found which had the same chassis and motor and the parts were duly swapped over.  Seen in photo below passing Dundreich on a short pick up goods NER No. 2187 is again a working Craigshire loco after sitting on the cripple road for at least 33 years!

Malcolm

 

50576280563_23866335ae.jpgNER No.2187 Nov 2020 by Malcolm MacLeod, on Flickr

Edited by dunwurken
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I’m in the final furlong with three Ratio 4-wheelers, 2 Keyser 6 wheelers and a keyser Dean full brake van. I have some transfers for GWR crests and numbers but does anyone know where to find gold lining to go into the panelling? I’ve just got two LBSCR carriages too so I’ll be using the same lining on those. Pictures to follow on the GWR rake, I’m also fitting 3-link couplings to complete the look. Thanks! 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Anyone have an easy solution to my K's kit chassis issue?  Some years ago I bought an Aberdare from Messrs E-bay and over the next few months acquired some Romfords, gearbox, Mashima, front bogie etc. I built the tender and footplate before events stalled.  Seeing as it might be a long winter, today I dug out the box to make a start on the chassis which I had simply screwed together to help with the footplate.  As we all know a K's chassis leaves a little to be desired....  Mine seems to have had the centre wheel holes punched in the wrong place so that the axle sits slightly lower than the outers which will not make it a great runner I fear, especially after I've bodged it.  The gap between the frames is too narrow for my gearbox, as well as my chassis jig.  I've only made a couple of four coupled loco's before, and now realise why!  Does anyone know of a quick/easy solution as far as a chassis is concerned?  I really would like to get this loco built so that an RTR one is announced in the New Year.  Cheers, Mark

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17 minutes ago, snailpace said:

Anyone have an easy solution to my K's kit chassis issue?  Some years ago I bought an Aberdare from Messrs E-bay and over the next few months acquired some Romfords, gearbox, Mashima, front bogie etc. I built the tender and footplate before events stalled.  Seeing as it might be a long winter, today I dug out the box to make a start on the chassis which I had simply screwed together to help with the footplate.  As we all know a K's chassis leaves a little to be desired....  Mine seems to have had the centre wheel holes punched in the wrong place so that the axle sits slightly lower than the outers which will not make it a great runner I fear, especially after I've bodged it.  The gap between the frames is too narrow for my gearbox, as well as my chassis jig.  I've only made a couple of four coupled loco's before, and now realise why!  Does anyone know of a quick/easy solution as far as a chassis is concerned?  I really would like to get this loco built so that an RTR one is announced in the New Year.  Cheers, Mark

 

As you have a chassis jig, you can use it to correct K's errors.

 

You can widen the frames by inserting washers between the spacers and the frames; the same number on each side, of course.

 

Open up the holes for the tophat bearings in the frames until all axles sit level and square across your jig, using the coupling rods on the ends of the jig axles. (If the kit doesn't supply tophat bearings, supply your own and open up the frame holes as necessary).

 

When you are happy that all is square and aligned, solder the tophat bushes into the frames, and the spacers / washers to the frames.

 

You should now have a square, rigid set of rames that match the axle spacing of the coupling rods.

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

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I assume your chassis jig is the Comet loco frame assembly jig, rather than a hornblock jig.

 

If you are building to 00 gauge then as they come in at 12.5mm wide there is not much room to widen them to fit the wheel back to backs

 

As you have a key hole (axle holes) then the chassis can come out slightly banana shape due to the axle holes being stamped out, bending back to square should cure your issue. This is a very common fault and usually easily rectified

 

If not file the the center axle slots to the correct height, then using the hornblock alignment rods inconjuction with the coupling rods solder the axle bushes to the chassis

 

As far as the gearbox being too wide, buy one to fit the gap, High Level have at least 2 that fit, but you will probably have to file the axle bushes flush with the inside of the frames

Edited by hayfield
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5 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

As you have a chassis jig, you can use it to correct K's errors.

 

You can widen the frames by inserting washers between the spacers and the frames; the same number on each side, of course.

 

Open up the holes for the tophat bearings in the frames until all axles sit level and square across your jig, using the coupling rods on the ends of the jig axles. (If the kit doesn't supply tophat bearings, supply your own and open up the frame holes as necessary).

 

When you are happy that all is square and aligned, solder the tophat bushes into the frames, and the spacers / washers to the frames.

 

You should now have a square, rigid set of rames that match the axle spacing of the coupling rods.

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

Thanks John, I reckoned I could get the chassis square and file the centre punched holes to get the wheels aligned, but I’m not sure if I can widen it enough for my gearbox.  

 

5 hours ago, hayfield said:

I assume your chassis jig is the Comet loco frame assembly jig, rather than a hornblock jig.

 

If you are building to 00 gauge then as they come in at 12.5mm wide there is not much room to widen them to fit the wheel back to backs

 

As you have a key hole (axle holes) then the chassis can come out slightly banana shape due to the axle holes being stamped out, bending back to square should cure your issue. This is a very common fault and usually easily rectified

 

If not file the the center axle slots to the correct height, then using the hornblock alignment rods inconjuction with the coupling rods solder the axle bushes to the chassis

 

As far as the gearbox being too wide, buy one to fit the gap, High Level have at least 2 that fit, but you will probably have to file the axle bushes flush with the inside of the frames

Thanks John, I haven’t checked the straightness of the frames themselves. Guess I’ve nothing to lose by getting the files out.  I’ll have a look at a high level box (think mine is fine cast) after making sure my motor is working.

 

I was hoping for a suggested etched chassis, I’ve previously completed a couple without any problems.

 

Cheers, Mark

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The K's chassis spacers are around 9,8mm and the chassis material is 1,3mm.  How much too wide is your g/b?  You could file the inside of the chassis sides locally to give you at least an extra mm width for the g/b.  I had to file about half a mm off each side of the K's Dean Goods chassis sides to give me enough sideplay for the centre axle.

Edited by Jeff Smith
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Thanks, I had a look at the Brassmasters/Martin Finney kit yesterday and the chassis is spread over a couple of the etches so I'd end up buying most of the kit.......  I'll ask later and see what they say. Cheers, Mark

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9 hours ago, snailpace said:

Thanks John, I reckoned I could get the chassis square and file the centre punched holes to get the wheels aligned, but I’m not sure if I can widen it enough for my gearbox.  

 

Thanks John, I haven’t checked the straightness of the frames themselves. Guess I’ve nothing to lose by getting the files out.  I’ll have a look at a high level box (think mine is fine cast) after making sure my motor is working.

 

I was hoping for a suggested etched chassis, I’ve previously completed a couple without any problems.

 

Cheers, Mark

 

Mark

 

I dont thing there is an etched chassis available, though there may be a donor chassis you could adapt, the nearest Gibson coupling rods are 7'4" x 7'4" marked as GWR, probably would not be correct, but then neither is the K's brass bar frame and its hidden by an outside frame. A 16xx chassis seems close if not exact

 

Alan Gibson do these coupling rods 4'7" x 4'7" 4M127, but I cannot see any chassis with the same spacings 16xx but they do do a 2021 LM1 205 which you can order either with axle holes or hornblock slots

 

Southeastern Finecast/Branchlines do a 16xx etched chassis, I have an old NuCast version which has nearly the correct wheelbase, but the frame lengths would have to be altered. I dont know if Dave at SEF has any old NuCast ones spare. These chassis are about 0.5mm out,

 

if you have/have access to a proper chassis jig you could alter the axle holes and reset the axle bearings using the K's coupling rods,

 

Whilst neither are 100% correct , how correct were the K's chassis ? Both would need altering a bit to fit the body, nothing too major and so much easier with an unbuilt kit. Given that with this kit the boiler is more or less complete (no cut outs for motors) it might be worth buying a gearbox and motor which will go up into the fire box and into the boiler.

 

However if you can straighten the K's loco frames, file the inside of the axle bearings flush with the inside of the frames, that should give you about 9mm clearance inside the K's frames. Which ever systen you use  the boiler is the main issue 

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Thanks very much John, that’s very informative.  I fear I’ll have to do quite a bit of fettling, I had hoped just to get a more modern wheel set, gearbox and motor involved.  I’ll get my Russell out tomorrow and measure up before getting the files and reamers.  If I can get this to work properly on DCC it’ll look great at the front of the Cambrian 40 tonners in my wagon stash!

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Mark

 

My Aberdare has Romford wheels and a D11 motor on a motor mount with Romford gears, but in a K's frame (drilled version)

 

If I were doing it now I would still use Markit/Romford wheels, a High Level gearbox and a decent motor, If I could get one a 10mm flat can motor. High Level do an inexpensive 10 mm open framed motor. The trick is to drive from the rear axle up into the fire bod with the motor in the boiler, this way you can fit a cab back head and preserve the boiler

 

Certainly a more modern wheelset and motor gearbox option is available, no problems there at all.

 

As for a decent gearbox I have fitted either a High Level Road Runner or High Flyer in between a K's frame plus they do a Slimliner, if you are not too bothered about seeing the gears between the footplate and boiler. Motors are not an issue. Download a High Level gearbox planner

 

As for the chassis. First get the frames straight, secondly if needed just raise the centre axle hole slightly. First job get a rolling chassis, after that worry about the motor and gearbox

 

 

 

 

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I demand my money back!

 

One of my Ks LMS 040T (with original wheels and HP2M motor

 

571458563_Johnson040T(1280x642).jpg.6463b035128c955dd85ab7b43afaf490.jpg

 

has had to have a replacement gear fitted - the original one had developed a nasty worn spot  - possibly due to it having stood unused for a long time.  Luckily I had a spare!

 

Baz

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I first built this loco well over 45 years ago, then had to rebuild the chassis (and never finished) some years later, built in the days when I knew far less and had nothing but very basic tools and brush painted. Due for a rebuild & repaint.

 

226.jpeg.be70a6e741d7c0cbc12a946a2a29010a.jpeg

 

Wheels swapped for Romford's, Anchorage D11 and Romford gears. Runs OK but the very bottom of the motor sticks into the can, gears are visible under the boiler

 

227.jpeg.28b4004d898ec00aad41233893248456.jpeg

 

I guess with a bit of playing around I could get a backhead in

 

228.jpeg.aa3b8998bf396ce90c33d5f4093b2822.jpeg

 

Painting or changing the wire would help and perhaps using metal black on the gear wheel.

 

The other option is to find another etched chassis which could be used instead, the wheel centres are 29.s x 29.3  16xx ? 

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On 30/11/2020 at 16:25, snailpace said:

Mine seems to have had the centre wheel holes punched in the wrong place so that the axle sits slightly lower than the outers

Is your chassis one of the 'keyhole' slot ones ?

If it is then you might be able to bend the frames downwards at the ends to get the axle holes in line.  

The punching process did seem to distort the frames vertically.

If you try this be very careful and do it gently in a vice.  The brass can be quite brittle and might snap above the centre axle.

Rodney

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 03/12/2020 at 08:29, Barry O said:

I demand my money back!

 

One of my Ks LMS 040T (with original wheels and HP2M motor

 

571458563_Johnson040T(1280x642).jpg.6463b035128c955dd85ab7b43afaf490.jpg

 

has had to have a replacement gear fitted - the original one had developed a nasty worn spot  - possibly due to it having stood unused for a long time.  Luckily I had a spare!

 

Baz

I got one of these off EBay.
Cancer shopping therapy.
Nobody knew what it was, so, amazingly, it didn't cost much.
I have had to modify the pickup plate so it will negotiate Peco points. Works nicely now.

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