Isle of Wight Railway Coaches

[vectispete]

Which was my main objective!  At a normal viewing distance the eye will say "ah, an SECR coach".  The eye, looking a bit more closely may of course also say "too many compartments and too small luggage compartment" but we all set out own modelling standards, and I am always happy when I manage to reach mine (whilst also aspiring to, and admiring, the levels above me).

 

Thank you for your kind comments  :-)

 

Chris

Hi

 

This is a picture of some of my EM gauge SECR and LBSCR 4mm coaches. I am miles away from getting to Chris's excellent layout.

[ChrisG]

They look quite marvellous!    Chris

 

rake2.JPGrake2.JPG

Hi

 

This is a picture of some of my EM gauge SECR and LBSCR 4mm coaches. I am miles away from getting to Chris's excellent layou

[Nick C]

Hi

 

This is a picture of some of my EM gauge SECR and LBSCR 4mm coaches. I am miles away from getting to Chris's excellent layout.

They look excellent! How did you do them?

[vectispete]

They look excellent! How did you do them?

The LBSCR are ex Alan Gibson sides with scratch built ends and roof. The SECR are mainly scratchbuilt.

[ChrisG]

I thought I would break cover to report on my latest IOW coach exploits. The one I'm showing here follows a number of exploratory and ultimately rejected attempts based on Ratio Midland coach sides. It is intended to be more prototypical and is based on Bill Bedford's brass sides for a diagram 377 saloon composite. this one numbered S6364. It will be running on my Ventnor West layout and has therefore been finished in the malachite green I am assuming it would have carried between 1949 and 1952. It has BR style lettering which could be wrong as it may not have received that until it was painted red. 

 

In the pictures you can see

 

1) The Bill Bedford brass sides (one has been glazed the other not yet);

 

2) The main body shell (floor, chassis, partitions and ends) which were custom cut from 1mm Rowmark by York Modelmaking from CAD files originated by me. Two drawbacks of this approach are that the footboards are a bit thick and the material is harder to stick than styrene sheet;

 

3) The false roof, again custom cut, this time from 2mm ply. It will be clad in thin brass sheet which I have had custom etched to the precise dimensions, with half etched lines to aid the bending;

 

4) Roxey Mouldings SECR heavy Fox bogies. After one failed attempt I managed to master the art of soldering the footboards to the whitemetal bump stops. Not the easiest modelling job I have ever done!

 

Still to do are finishing the roof, couplings (Kadees which I use for fixed rake coupling), underframe, end details, and weathering. 

 

Chris G

Alton

Hants

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2017 by ChrisG

[Nick C]

Chris,

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of malachite coaches with BR style lettering on the island, as well as Sxxxx numbers in sunshine lettering, and full 'Southern' lettering well after nationalisation...

 

Nick

[IWCR]

The  very  first  delivery  of  SECR  carriages  were  in  full  Southern  Sunshine  livery.

The  subsequent  batches  were  as  the  model  is  being  painted;  in  Malachite  green  with  Sunshine  numbers  with  the  S  prefix,  no  "Southern"  or  3  markings  on  third  class.  (Note:  S  suffix  not  used).

Carriages  already  on  the  island  were  modified  over  time  by  painting  out the  "Southern"  and  adding  an  S  prefix  to  the  number,  some  of  these  were  cut  from  transfers  for  "Southern"  and  were  oversize  for the  numerals.

Full  repaints  of  course were  in  the  current  style  when  painted.

 

Pete 

[bécasse]

To which might be added the comment that the Island doesn't seem to have made any attempt to keep carriages in green, as unquestionably happened (at least with corridor stock) on the mainland, so red became pretty standard by 1956/7 - when green not only reappeared but became standard again remarkably quickly.

[Nick C]

To which might be added the comment that the Island doesn't seem to have made any attempt to keep carriages in green, as unquestionably happened (at least with corridor stock) on the mainland, so red became pretty standard by 1956/7 - when green not only reappeared but became standard again remarkably quickly.

 

I've noticed that too - did Newport repaint coaches more often than usual? I think the standard on the mainland was 10 years between full repaints, but if that was the case then most of the SECR stock, having been freshly painted in '49, would not need another repaint until '59, so would have gone straight from Malachite to BR green - but photographic evidence shows plenty of them in Crimson...

[bécasse]

My understanding, which came from someone who worked at Lancing, was that the SR standard was revarnish after 3 years, repaint after 6, although this was to some extent governed by condition, and stock that saw little use, the long-sets for example (if any of their constituent vehicles lasted long enough), almost certainly went longer between repaints. Stock that was stored sufficiently close to the shore line to be affected by salt spray carryover (and that might apply almost anywhere on the IoW) probably needed repainting (or patch painting) more frequently however.

[ChrisG]

Thanks, 

 

all these comments have been helpful and certainly encouraging because it seems that almost any combination of livery and lettering was possible. The narrow window I have in which to run BR stock to Ventnor West (my exhibition layout project) is 1948 (Nationalisation) -1952 (when it closed). This makes Malachite green with Southern numbering with BR prefixes the most likely combination. What one really needs is good dated photos of the relevant stock, but unless someone has bothered to ensure the lettering is in view it is going to be guesswork as to which vehicles are involved, except of course the push pull sets.

 

In any event, recent attention has been on the layout itself so the coach in question has made no progress!

 

 

Chris

 

[Nick C]

I've certainly seen colour photos of the pull-push set at VW in crimson - there's one on the cover of one of the issues of 'Southern Way'

[bécasse]

I've certainly seen colour photos of the pull-push set at VW in crimson - there's one on the cover of one of the issues of 'Southern Way'

 

Set 503 was definitely in crimson by May 1952 when the late Pat Garland took a number of photographs on the line. The carriages were unlined and the paintwork looked fresh so they had probably been repainted during the preceding winter.

Edited July 10, 2017 by bécasse

[ChrisG]

I've certainly seen colour photos of the pull-push set at VW in crimson - there's one on the cover of one of the issues of 'Southern Way'

 

Brilliant. I found the photo in an online search. Click the image to enlarge.  http://www.crecy.co.uk/southern-way-issue-no.-10

 

Thanks

 

Chris

[ChrisG]

Here's the latest on my proof of concept SECR coach build.  As a reminder, the body shell and false roof are constructed from a custom laser cut kit which I designed and had produced by York Modelmaking. The sides are Bill Bedford's. Bogies (not in picture) are Roxey heavyweight Fox.  So still to do are roof (custom brass etch to be folded over the wooden former, buffers (Markits spring SECR clipped buffers), and underframe (not yet to be decided how to do it).  Seats, which can't be seen are Ratio. 

 

This was the most nerve-wracking phase so far - attaching the brass sides to the plastic body shell. I used Evostik in impact mode - which gives a very small opportunity of a second chance if it doesn't go on quite right.

 

The glazing was stuck with Superglue using a special odourless formula from Deluxe Materials which takes longer to set but doesn't cause misting or crazing of the glazing. 

 

The livery is SR Malachite with BR numbering as might well have been seen in the early years of Nationalisation.

 

Chris

 

 

Chris

[roythebus]

The IWSR re-varnishes its coaches about every 3 years. One side fades quicker than the other due to the railway running east-west. The south sides fade very quickly comparatively. No doubt Pete (IWCR) can enlighten us a bit more.

[IWCR]

No  the  IWSR  tries  to  varnish  its  coaches annually.

Going  for  two  years  on  lesser  used  stock  which  normally  lives  indoors.

Three  years  would  be  way  to  long  and  the  paint  would  be  going  downhill  fast  by then  likely  resulting  in  a  major  touch  up our  full  repaint.

Fading  is  not  a  problem,  the  paint  &  varnish  actually  darkens  over  time.

If  thoroughly  cleaned  and  revarnished  annually  the  paintwork  can  be  good  for  upwards  of  10  years.

The  SR  on  the  Island  revarnished  around  every  two  years  with  a  full  repaint  at  five  years.

 

Pete

[ChrisG]

Here's a shot which shows the completed SECR composite saloon coach in Malachite Green at Ventnor West. I was treating this model as a proof of concept, and so it is not fully detailed (for example, it has no door hinges). Nevertheless, I am pretty pleased with it. Construction as follows:-

 

Bogies - Roxey Mouldings Fox Heavyweight bogies;

Roof - custom laser cut plywood former (York Modelmaking) covered with styrene strip (for planking) and painted with acrylic paint and liberal use of talcum powder;

Body sides - Bill Bedford etches;

Body skeleton - custom laser cut from black Rowmark by York Modelmaking

 

Chris

 

 

]

Edited November 6, 2017 by ChrisG

[zephyrman]

Nice job. Some Isle of Wight coaches in the 50's did receive the crimson with waist stripe, but only a few. Don't think they carried it for long.

[IWCR]

Correct,  initial  repaints  in  Red  did  include  the  lining  both  at  waist  &  above  windows.

This  however  did  not  really  work,  in  particular  the  above  window  lining  being  very  difficult  to  apply  with  any  consistency  on  the  mouldings  and  fitting  it  below  door  ventilator  cowls.  Even  steel  sheeted  vehicles  had  the  upper  sheeting  over  &  down  to  the  moulding  over  the  window  hence  no  easier.  Waist  lining  was  better  but  still  up  &  down  over  the  mouldings  if  present.  Soon  dropped  as  impractical.  

A  livery  which  looks  good  on  flush  sided  vehicles,  not  for  a  fully  panneled  one.

 

Pete

[bécasse]

I don't think that I have ever seen a photo of a non-corridor Southern carriage with the upper lining so I suspect that it was dropped (for the very practical reasons outlined above) very quickly. The waist lining was applied for a much longer period and it isn't too difficult to find photos of vehicles so adorned. The settled practice for vehicles with mouldings at waist level seems to have been to apply it through the exact centreline of the mouldings unless any of the doors carried legends (typically "GUARD") when it was applied immediately under the mouldings. Motor trains used the under the mouldings position for both carriages, presumably to neaten the appearance but I am not sure that this rule was also applied to non-motor sets.

 

There were very few examples of red Southern carriages with waist lining around in the mid-1950s so I suspect that any applied lining was painted out when vehicles came in for their mid-term revarnishing.

[ChrisG]

Not a lot of recent action on this topic, but I have recently finished a pair of SECR brakes, one of which is pictured here. The basis of the model is a laser cut kit which I commissioned from York Model Making, plus a laser cut wooden false roof over which I laid a custom etched flexible roof. The sides are by Bill Bedford, and are very reasonably priced. Bogies are from Roxey Mouldings (Fox Heavyweight), and the buffers are from Markits, and absolute beauties they are. 

 

The other exciting news is the release of a set of etched kits for three SECR IOW coaches from Worsley Works (Allen Doherty). I haven't started on these yet, but the raw etches look good.  You can find the information here for ordering a set of etches from Allen:-

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/4mm/4mm_Southern_Pregroup_SECR.htm

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

Alton

Hants

Edited September 3, 2018 by ChrisG

[IWCR]

The  SECR  Brake thirds  were originally 7 comp birdcage brakes.

These were converted to 4 compartments with no birdcage.

The section of extended brake van should be flush sheeted, these were never fully paneled.

The brake end is correct with the adjacent paneled sections each side of the doors,  the luggage doors are correct however the area to the left of these should be flush sheeted and all the way to the first compartment door.

Later of course other areas had flat sheeting fitted during repairs, this was normally over the mouldings.

 

Pete

[ChrisG]

The  SECR  Brake thirds  were originally 7 comp birdcage brakes.

These were converted to 4 compartments with no birdcage.

The section of extended brake van should be flush sheeted, these were never fully paneled.

The brake end is correct with the adjacent paneled sections each side of the doors,  the luggage doors are correct however the area to the left of these should be flush sheeted and all the way to the first compartment door.

Later of course other areas had flat sheeting fitted during repairs, this was normally over the mouldings.

 

Pete

 

 

At the time I bought the materials to make this coach, the Bill Bedford sides were all that was available. Now, Worsley Works have a kit in their catalogue, which has the correct pattern of sheeting and panelling, as well as half etching to allow the representation of the rivetting on the flush panelled sections. Allen has based his etches on the drawings of IOW modifcations in the Maycock and Reed book.

 

Chris

[IWCR]

Hello

Good to know these etches have been corrected, or are they all new items?

The flush panel sections are screwed on with raised head countersunk  screws,  these are in holes which are countersunk into the timber with the steel panel punched into the countersunk, the result is a slightly raised head which has the appearance of a rivet.

A minor detail:  The waist panel just inboard of the Guards doors is made of slate, this was unpainted on vehicles when first transferred but certainly painted over by BR green days. Presumably this was for chalking on destinations for newspapers  etc.

 

I will certainly be interested in 2mm versions if/when available.

 

Pete