ZTC 611 UPDATED CONTROLLER!

[deadlyduck]

I think its a shame that once again a British product has been given to the public without the proper backing in place,im not into the ins n outs of this product but i think more should have been put into place before its introduction,customer testing.Its a appears silly to think you can sell something in todays world without even the instructions of how you get to work it.I do have the ZTC 511,why because i believed in buying British also the point motors + the decoders,the problem being the customer service was to say the least crap.I found the decoder very good they are still going,the Point motors not so the 511 well its in a drawer. I cannot see any advantage of introducing any product without the relevent testing.You might get the initial good will buyers but that will die out as the negative points are found.I for 1 would love to believe a British product will take the DCC world by storm .Technology is nowadays short lived.we have seen on other threads how the new Bachmann system has been vilified,yet its not even off the ground.The 611 system in not cheap.So does anyone know why.Whats it got going for it that cannot be bought from another system.I also assume for the price you get bells whistles braces n inbuilt technology for the tomorrows add ons.I may seem a tad sceptical well after the 511 i will leave it to the thousands of 511 happy customers to answer that.You may think that but i can not possibly comment

[Mike Friedman]

maybee u should volunteer to write the manual 4 them

[deadlyduck]

Whats the point of that its already too late

[Mike Storey]

I think its a shame that once again a British product has been given to the public without the proper backing in place,im not into the ins n outs of this product but i think more should have been put into place before its introduction,customer testing.Its a appears silly to think you can sell something in todays world without even the instructions of how you get to work it.I do have the ZTC 511,why because i believed in buying British also the point motors + the decoders,the problem being the customer service was to say the least crap.I found the decoder very good they are still going,the Point motors not so the 511 well its in a drawer. I cannot see any advantage of introducing any product without the relevent testing.You might get the initial good will buyers but that will die out as the negative points are found.I for 1 would love to believe a British product will take the DCC world by storm .Technology is nowadays short lived.we have seen on other threads how the new Bachmann system has been vilified,yet its not even off the ground.The 611 system in not cheap.So does anyone know why.Whats it got going for it that cannot be bought from another system.I also assume for the price you get bells whistles braces n inbuilt technology for the tomorrows add ons.I may seem a tad sceptical well after the 511 i will leave it to the thousands of 511 happy customers to answer that.You may think that but i can not possibly comment

 

I would say its main attraction, apart from patriotic goodwill, is the use of a knob and levers, to make the user feel much more like one is driving the real thing. The only other product that comes close to this IIRC is the Digitrax Zephyr, which does not have a "feel" as good as the ZTC, but is somewhat cheaper. As has been described elsewhere and here, to add that feature to an ECoS or its cheaper brethren, would boost their cost quite significantly. So, we will wait and see what the larger screen etc brings costwise to the ZTC in the next big upgrade, to make it feature-compatible. For now, I would be happy to purchase as is, when they become available again, if people more knowledgeable than me say it does the job intended. One thing not yet mentioned by any of you that have one, is whether the operation of sound effects is any easier/simpler with the 611? It seemed quite involved (compared say with a Bachmann or NCE) on the 511, when using a decoder with more than 10/11 functions. I have only used the 511 on occasion by using someone else's, so I confess I did not become fully proficient with it, but it did feel the D's B's in operation of each train.

[Colin_McLeod]

Whats the point of that its already too late

 

Better late than never.   (Though better letter late)

 

 

Would it be appropriate to refer Deadlyduck to the negativity thread? Post #353 is a classic example of what that thread is all about.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96875-default-stances-of-negativity/

 

Think positive Ducky   +++++++

[shibushe]

As I have said before on this subject. The lack of a manual with the 611 is a problem, considering it was promised on the 28 Feb.

For the dedicated ZTC user like me frustrating. You would not buy a Camera, VCR, or anything else that needs instructions.

Anyway, with input from other users of the 611 I am getting there.

As for the sound functions. 28 available, easy to access, once you know how.

I repeat my latest info.  The Manual should be available soon as a download.

A basic instruction sheet should be sent to us who have bought a 611.

Again don't ask me when. Regards.

[deadlyduck]

Better late than never.   (Though better letter late)

 

 

Would it be appropriate to refer Deadlyduck to the negativity thread? Post #353 is a classic example of what that thread is all about.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96875-default-stances-of-negativity/

 

Think positive Ducky   +++++++

Matbe you can enlighten us all to the positives of the New ZTC 611.I think we would all be enlightened to a British product that is fit for the purpose.So i a British product is brought on the market thats not been tested thats not got a relevent instruction manual.That is in fact using buyers as guinea pigs,we should all be in the thros of that eureka moment.If thats the way you feel fair play to you.Myself i would rather go along with a tried n tested item that is fit for purpose.I suppose it never crosses your mind when you buy anything all the tests they go through before you can actually buy it.But there ago you just take it for granted.In last months BRM mag Andy York wote a great piece about the Roco Z21,now compare this to a writeup on the ZTC 611.I just wonder if you own any of the older ZTC products ??.If you are buying a car would you go for a reliable 1 a bucket on wheels Or take pot luck ?

[Colin_McLeod]

Deadlyduck. 

 

My post no 355 related only to the comment that it was "too late" to produce a manual. I'll leave the marketing of the ZTC611 to Taunton Controls Ltd.

 

Yes I do own some of the older ZTC products.

 

Colin

[traction]

The sound functions are very easy.

Press a function number turns that function on type it again turns it off.

 

So 01 for function 1, 28 for function 28.

If you look at the chart there is an option to set each function number to momentary or latching to suit your sound decoder.

 

As for testing it has been tested to make sure it all works.

It's only certain things that need clarification on.

 

It's really not too much of an issue.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited March 13, 2015 by traction

[Combe Martin]

Referring to post 357 from deadlyduck, you are wrong in suggesting the 611 hasn't been tested.  It has, but having worked in the computer software business all my life, and despite very exhaustive testing, you'll always find that the punters will find bugs that the testing didn't throw up.  The 611 has been designed so that software upgrades are easy to install, but as far as a manual is concerned I think in most cases it will work just as per a 511 and therefore if you were a 511 user you'd have a 511 manual.  Yes, the 611 has new features but these are mostly automatic or logical extentions of existing features.    Ok, it would have been ideal if a new manual was ready when the 611 was available for release, but I bet most of the early 611 buyers would be existing 511 users or upgraders so would know what they are doing.

 

As a 511 owner yourself, (and ignoring the odd software bug) you should know what existing ZTC users like about the 511/611, the control desk layout and feel of the controls is an advantage it has over all the other systems.  It's historical falling behind with DCC features (like up to 28 functions, momentary or latching, and this wasn't a problem for all users) has been addressed in the 611.

 

The 611 has a completely new and redesigned mother board using more modern electronic components and memory chips, so isn't inhibited by the problem the 511 gradually got into, ie a lack of memory, which is what made fixing some bugs difficult.  It has therefore had to have its software completely re-written using a more modern programing language, as no-one knew the old language any more. This has obviously cost the new owners a fortune, so I can well understand it being released before the manual to people that know the 511, to start re-couping some of that investment.  Ok, not ideal but understandable.

[Andrew F]

I'd rather have the 611 and wait for the manual then have the 611 wait for the manual.

[Colin_McLeod]

The last time I purchased a car, I was able to drive it home without reading the manual first.  I expect it is the same with the 511 to 611 upgrades.

[deadlyduck]

Tha manual is an issue.the main thing seems to be the software.so what some of you are saying is you dont need the manual good on you,what about the newbys that want to buy British they also dont need 1.even for driving a car mmmm.I think some of you are missing the point.You are willing to pay £470 for something thats come as incomplete N may in due course fail due to unresolved software problems.Now wehere is that review on the 611 ??.Ah no 1s done 1.Will i be upgrading my 511 ?.Well when it does get around to be properly reviewed like the Roco Z21 n if it passes that test YES i will.after all theres not many things you can nowadays say is truely British

[traction]

I don't think you will need to wait long for a review.
I've never owned a 511 but still found the 611 straight forward to use.

If you have a 511 then the review will be more or less the same but will include the extra function operation and any other improvements

There really is no need for this amount of fuss.

Cheers

Ian

Edited March 13, 2015 by traction

[m.levin]

Most people will only read a manual when they have a head scratching moment and find the manual useless or read it whilst having a dump!

[GoingUnderground]

Having had a look at Ian's chart in post 347, it appears to be the same as the one for my old 505 as far as I can tell, but of course the 505 didn't have the full functionality of a 511. So on the basis that the 611 I just a 511 with the bugs fixed and Functions up to F28, the old 511 manual would seem to suffice. As I have a copy from my 505 owning days I've attached it to this post. 511v401.pdf

 

Use at your own risk as there may be significant differences in some areas.

 

And here is the back cover chart for a 505. Ztc 505 Manual Back Cover 1.00doc.pdf

Edited March 14, 2015 by GoingUnderground

[shibushe]

Eureka. 611 Manual is in my hand arrived this morning.  First impressions. I like it.

 

Layout is very clean. Pages reduced from 65 511.  to 36 611. 

 

At first glance it would appear to be in a logical order. Will be firing up today.

[traction]

Mine has also turned up.

 

There is no option to turn the SIMULATION on/off, it's always in simulation mode, so you set top speed with the regulator and use the reverser to speed up or slow down.

Alternatively you can leave the reverser at maximum and then use the regulator for the speed control.

 

Page 15 of the Handbook for Automatic Recall of loco Roster on Start up.

 

It should be FUNCTION-LOCO not the SYSTEM button as it states!

 

I've found a few more things that have changed and this is the latest quick guide to the command keys:-

 

 

 

Hope you find it useful.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Ian_B]

Eureka. 611 Manual is in my hand arrived this morning.  First impressions. I like it.

 

Layout is very clean. Pages reduced from 65 511.  to 36 611. 

 

At first glance it would appear to be in a logical order. Will be firing up today.

 Nothing on use of the USB socket! do we need any interface software on the PC - what will it report as in the Hardware list? Is it already compatable with control software tike JMRI? Is the 611 software updatable via USB? Is the existing USB Interface that connects via the Bus redundant?

If no-one has anything to report I'll give Graham a ring later this week.

Ian_B

[traction]

There are two USB sockets.

 

One to connect to a PC the other to plug a USB stick into to update the firmware.

 

What software will work with the 611, I have no idea.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited March 25, 2015 by traction

[Mike Storey]

Mine has also turned up.

 

There is no option to turn the SIMULATION on/off, it's always in simulation mode, so you set top speed with the regulator and use the reverser to speed up or slow down.

Alternatively you can leave the reverser at maximum and then use the regulator for the speed control.

 

 

 

What about using the brake now Ian? Does this still work in the same way? It was one of the things I most enjoyed using on my mate's 511!

[traction]

What about using the brake now Ian? Does this still work in the same way? It was one of the things I most enjoyed using on my mate's 511!

 

The brake does exactly that, you apply a bit and it slows the loco down, you can see the speed steps being reduced, this happens all the way until you hit the red zone which stops the loco as though full brake applied.

 

You can just use the regulator to slow the loco down or move the reverser lever towards it's centre point which will also slow the loco down, which to me is the same thing as applying the brake????

 

As I've never driven a real loco don't know if this is how its done, It just seems a bit odd to me that I can set everything up so the loco runs at a set speed, then have 3 different ways of slowing the loco down using either the Regulator, Reverser or Brake

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited March 27, 2015 by traction

[shibushe]

I have driven a real Loco, a big one. Can only remember that to slow down you shut the regulator and use the vacuum brake to stop, or coast.

 

The ZTC brake needs a fine touch in my experience, Infact I don't use it for that purpose.  Neither do I use it to wind in Voltage values.

 

I find that using the regulator gives you more control on slowing to stop, or just use the regulator. The choice is yours.

 

Had a long chat with Graham at the Ally Pally, future plans are to have a larger Lcd touch screen, similar to the ECoS, only better.

[ColinK]

I too had a long chat with Graham at Ally Pally, I'll be getting my 511 upgraded in due course.

 

Nb one of the big benefits of attending Ally Pally was the opportunity to talk to suppliers.

[Mike Storey]

The brake does exactly that, you apply a bit and it slows the loco down, you can see the speed steps being reduced, this happens all the way until you hit the red zone which stops the loco as though full brake applied.

 

You can just use the regulator to slow the loco down or move the reverser lever towards it's centre point which will also slow the loco down, which to me is the same thing as applying the brake????

 

As I've never driven a real loco don't know if this is how its done, It just seems a bit odd to me that I can set everything up so the loco runs at a set speed, then have 3 different ways of slowing the loco down using either the Regulator, Reverser or Brake

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

Very hard to reproduce the function of a steam engine electronically! I have only driven real narrow gauge steam locos (as a passed fireman, so only intermittent experience) a long time ago and the normal function to slow down would be to shut off (close the regulator which on the level or falling gradients would achieve little, but on a climbing gradient would be a real balancing act), cut off (bring the reverser slowly over, making the pistons work a little harder, normally only used on climbing gradients in conjunction with the regulator) and then or instead, the brake, which on a vacuum needed gentle nudges at first (on-off-on-off etc) until near to the signal or platform end, when you needed to slowly apply to full application. This was because the vacuum cylinders along the train would respond in sequence and a continuous initial application would cause buffering up, which is bad for the passengers but also means the rest of the train's inertia is still trying to push you forward). Swing the reverser to centre, or just off (for an upward gradient) and you're done until the whistle (or screw down for the end of trip). I have never worked an air=braked loco but I gather they need less finesse. So, the ZTC is not inaccurate in allowing any of the three to be used to "brake" but in reality, you could not stop a steam loco just on the regulator and/or reverser, at least not at where you wanted to stop!!