Satan's Goldfish Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 For any that are interested, here's me attempting to update and bring up to an acceptable-for-Warren-Lane-standard Lima Class 92. Modelling for modelling biffs like me! I'll try and cover all stages in detail with pictures for others that want to give this a go. Before the cries of 'why not just get a new Hornby 92' start, from what i've already read around the interwebs there's fors and againsts both the Lima and Hornby models for different reasons. The general consensus seemed to be that the Lima model was a slightly better mould and the Pantographs despite being HO in scale are a slightly better example (this is me quoting others, not my opinion as i've never compared the 2!) The other reason is i already have an old Lima 92 and it's tough enough justifying buying engines to the wife let alone another of something i already have! The 92 in question was bought second hand is a limited edition of 92030 'Ashford', however it has seen better days and could use a little TLC (There's a buffer missing, couple of horns are missing, headlamp cover missing, roof detail needs touching up, etc) but does still have in the box all the end detailing bits waiting to fit. The other bonus of 'Ashford' is that the RfD livery it was introduced with in the mid 90s it could still be found wearing in the mid 2000s when owned by EWS so it can cover a lot of modelled years without needing a respray to become a different engine. The first jobs to bring it into the 21st century before detailing starts is to provide a more DCC friendly motor, wheels that aren't pizza cutters, and couplings that aren't based on the front of a volvo. I initially looked on ebay at a full replacement Hornby chassis to fit the Lima body onto. I soon found the new Hornby bogies came with NEM pockets and lots of wires for more reliable DCC. Plus the arrangements of the dummy bogie fitting into a small hole in the Chassis and the motor bogie fitting into a large gap is the same as the Lima method so i just bought new bogies instead. Brilliantly, i found that it was cheaper to get the dummy bogie and it's wheels seperately rather than already built together. Attempting to put them together a few minutes ago though revealed there was no way of holding the wheels into the bogie so the bar that held the wheels in on the Lima dummy bogie was recycled and glued on to do that job. To get the correct mounting height a small plastic washer was 'fashioned' and slipped on before fitting it to the chassis. The hole in the Chassis also need enlarging slightly up to 5mm to accept the Hornby bogie mounting clip. I've not fitted the body back on properly in the next picture, but it shows how well the dummy bogie sits in the chassis and it still has a good full range of movement. Up next is the motor bogie. I'm going to have to make a braket to go from the chassis and up and over the top of the motor to hold it in place. If the weather stays nice i'll go out to the garage and make that tomorrow. To me, the below picture show how much better it looks than the old Lima Motor already though! And finally, the new bogies do away with the bumper couplings which is an instant improvement, and the NEM socket in it's place gives me the option of standard hook and loop for my use or quickly swapping to Kadee for Warren Lane use if it eventually comes up to muster. Yes again, the body wasn't fitted properly there. Hopefully i'll do more tomorrow and give an update tomorrow night. I'd like to finish fitting the bogies and solder the chip in. The missing headlamp cover could prove to be an issue, so if anyone knows of a source then please let me know. I'm tempted to try to fit working head and tail lights on this which will be a first for me, so all the headlight covers may end up missing anyway. Quick question, the old lima bogies had blackened very subtle pickup shoes, the new Hornby model has bright white pickup shoes. Any reason for the difference? Looking at prototype pictures the shoes never look quite that dark but not pristinely white either (unless recently cleaned) so what would be the most realistic finish? THAT IS ALL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Will be watching this with interest as I've already re-engineered my 92 with a ViTrains 47 chassis but have yet to do the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash39 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Looking forward to seeing this - I've got a couple of Lima 92's that I need to get round to finishing myself. The pickup shoes should be white when new but weathered down to a mucky brown. Being the correct white to begin with should mean when you weather the whole bogie it'll look correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Thanks Ash, good info when it comes to that bit. The plain black of the Lima bogie just didn't look right. I did find a blog when i started looking into this by someone who was using a spare Heljan 47 chassis he had to re-motor his 92 so that would be another option. Todays work: Plastic bracket made for fitting over the motor from old scraps of perspex. The legs are possibly a little thick but if they prove an issue later they can always be filed down. The inside of the Lima chassis is exactly 30mm wide so that's the top width of the bracket, and each leg is 17mm long. The mounting hole is slightly smaller than the one needed for the dummy bogie at 4.5mm. A plastic washer is sat on top of the motor first then the motor clips into the new bracket. Once the bogie is in the right place the braket is superglued into place. The picture quality isn't great, but the braket legs stand on the inside edge moulding of the lima chassis. And it's left to let the glue set hard using the weight of the motor to hold it in place. Once firmly set i soldered the chip in place: And then refitted the body shell, properly this time! Kadee fitted to one end, hook and loop in the other. the hook and loop end has all the missing detail bits that need replacing. Side on shot shows how close it sits on it's new bogies. I don't have a layout at the moment but i get the feeling this may now struggle with set track curves without some detail being removed. It's a good job it's hoped use is on a layout with very wide curves. It's back up on the shelf now, i need to find some good roof shots to sort the electrical detail out as i think some is missing and find a solution to the horns, buffers, and headlight covers. So sorry if i don't update for a while now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Looks good. You could change the pantographs as they immediately stand out from the rest. Replacement poantographs are available on ebay and only the upper arm needs to be straightned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 The Pans are one bit i'm not too worried about with this. Yes they look shocking in the lowered position as pictured above, but raised they look the part nicely. Pictures below show them raised along side 87101 which has been expertly detailed (not by me!) and they compare very nicely. I've seen pictures of the Hornby offering and they look huge and tall in comparison. Even raised height wise they're already pretty close to the required fixed position as on 87101, they just need a little tweak and fixing in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty11 Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Nice job! I think there is a hurst models kit for the pans, just so they look better down if wished too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 Nice job! I think there is a hurst models kit for the pans, just so they look better down if wished tooI probably should have added that in use they will always be raised! No third rail with any of my other stock, all OHL. Good to know there's a hurst option out there if the pans do end up letting it down but i'm attempting this with minimum expenditure/upset to the wife. Cheers Swifty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty11 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 I probably should have added that in use they will always be raised! No third rail with any of my other stock, all OHL. Good to know there's a hurst option out there if the pans do end up letting it down but i'm attempting this with minimum expenditure/upset to the wife. Cheers Swifty. Ok, just because they are rather fragile and snap very easily, also they always have 1 pantograph up and 1 down, (AC and DC I think?) so they never have 2 raised Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 The Pans are both for 25Kv AC (DC supplies are third rail only, no DC pans) The reason behind 2 pans is duplication of a lot of the electrical systems for Channel Tunnel reliability requirements. The majority of UK use seems to be with the rear pan raised to direction of travel, any pan work will have to happen after i've done end detailings and worked out what it's actual use will be. When the the pan in the up positiion is fixed in place, the other lowered pan can be stuck in a more realistic position i.e. tucked into the roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash39 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 That 87 pan looks nice, any details on it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 That 87 pan looks nice, any details on it?'Alan' aka WOMBATTY of Warren Lane built it. I'm not too sure on the details as he keeps things fairly quiet as he builds them but i think it's a combination of a lot of filing of a Hornby BW pan and some custom building. I might be very wrong though and it might Somerfeld or Hurst or someone like that! Ping him a message and he should be able to tell you, 87101 and just the other side of it is 86633 also in RfD colours really are works of art, much better than i could ever dream of achieving myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash39 Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 It does look very nice yeah! Well we all start somewhere don't we? Your 92 is looking much better already. Hoping this thread will inspire me to finish mine off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 19, 2013 Author Share Posted April 19, 2013 Hoping this thread will inspire me to finish mine off!...Me too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty11 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 The Pans are both for 25Kv AC (DC supplies are third rail only, no DC pans) The reason behind 2 pans is duplication of a lot of the electrical systems for Channel Tunnel reliability requirements. The majority of UK use seems to be with the rear pan raised to direction of travel, any pan work will have to happen after i've done end detailings and worked out what it's actual use will be. When the the pan in the up positiion is fixed in place, the other lowered pan can be stuck in a more realistic position i.e. tucked into the roof. Ok, sorry I forgot. Don't know too much about AC/DC stuff. I just remember hearing it when I went in the cab of one at Warrington Arpley. There a lovely engine, will be purchasing one myself at some point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 If this works ok i'm tempted to go for a second in triple grey with the SNCF logos. Have to admit, it's been on the shelf since finishing the bogies. I really should start on some of the smaller details, hopefully the running quality will get tested in the next few weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium GWRPhil Posted May 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2013 looks really good matt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted May 12, 2013 Author Share Posted May 12, 2013 I probably should do a bit more work on it soon, it's still gathering dust on the shelf :-( Thinking of removing the hook and loop coupler and detail that end. means the other end would always be the rear and then i'd know which pan to fix down and which to fix up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Tested it today, major electrical issues, lots of investigation needed to work out why it's not playing the game. Grrrrrrrr:-( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Tested it today, major electrical issues, lots of investigation needed to work out why it's not playing the game. Grrrrrrrr:-(It's having a bad attack of being prototypical.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 Chip has been removed so i can hook it up for a simple DC test. Trouble is i don't have a proper test track to try it on fully as the rails on my 5ft posing plank seen in my wagon/container thread are properly past it (that's not rust effect paint on the rails, that's real rust!). This might have to be my excuse to finally start building a working 'layout'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Found the red and black wires were the opposite way around on the non-motor bogie to what they were on the motor bogie. Quick re-wiring job and everything's trying to go the same direction and not short out now :-)On the down-side it's chip has found it's way into an 86 now (hopefully it's little mis-adventure hasn't fried it) so the 92 is just DC. Options are to smile nicely at the management and get another chip so it can be tested on Warren Lane, or finish the damn Warren Lane wiring so i can crack on with my own layout and test it there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattWallace Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This is a great thread - really useful thanks. I'm going to undertake a rebuild of my Lima 92 into 92013. I have the decals and some new pans for it as well as a Lenz decoder (although I may well swap that into my class 20 and use the cheaper Bachmann decoder in the 92). Is there any particular advice you'd give me before I start? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 This is a great thread - really useful thanks. I'm going to undertake a rebuild of my Lima 92 into 92013. I have the decals and some new pans for it as well as a Lenz decoder (although I may well swap that into my class 20 and use the cheaper Bachmann decoder in the 92). Is there any particular advice you'd give me before I start? Hi there, thanks for the kind words. It's still waiting to be tested properly. One thing i would suggest is use slightly thinner plastic than i did for the up-right parts of the motor bogie mount and use a really good strong glue to hold those bits together with plenty of time to dry and set! I can get a little impatient sometimes and i may have accidently have had to glue mine back together twice..... And check the movement of the bogies and ride height. I think when i do get a chance to test mine that i may need to file down some little bits of plastic to help it all move. If this works i would like to do another too but with a bit more re-liverying going on into one of the SNCF examples. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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