Jim’s “out and about with GBRf” thread

[Shedmaster]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

Forgot to put last nights pics up, landor st to Leicester with MK1 barrier vehicles and back to bescot 

 

66713 

 

 

plenty to see on leicester depot but they aren’t keen on you taking pics so only a close up arty shot of GBRF 47s and a 56

 

landor st to crewe tonight 

 

Hi Jim, 

 

It's been a very long time since I worked on or off Leicester depot for the local quarry traffic, to and from the South East or worked the Lindsey-Colnbrook fuel tanks for Heathrow. 

If you're down at Leicester Depot at all, look carefully in the staff block, as there is (was?) a fully functional training model railway! You may already know about this?

That was one of the last proper Freight Train Crew depots years ago, before everybody who could, jumped ship to the local TOC! What was that called now, with bright green 170's??? Central Trains I think..... 

 

Cheers,

 

Shed.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Shedmaster

[big jim]

Some from tonight, should have been landor st to crewe but as I was early in I drove to Hatton and met the other driver there 

 

66786

 

and into the loop in crewe, drew me up behind a NR test train which had our 73s on

 

 

same train south tomorrow night 

[big jim]

Southbound MOD last night, diverted via crewe station due to issues on the independent lines 

 

 

into basford hall, which is as far as I got

 

due to a signalling problem between crewe and Manchester (which as I type this is still ongoing after nearly 24 hours!) the Trafford park intermodal was sat in crewe, the driver in that being on a long diagram and not signing any diversion routes so I suggested that we swap foot plates and he take my train to Leamington spa and I’d take his to Manchester when the line was clear, he also lives not far from Leamington so it worked out good for him

 

so on the intermodal I jumped at 03:00 

 

where I was still sat at 07:30!

I eventually took it round to gresty green where it’s currently sat waiting for me to book on after rest to rescue it, the issue being it’s too long for the loop so the loco is now blocked in so we have had to hire a loco to drag the train back out of the loop to release the loco

 

having just checked the log the line is under special working arrangements so trains are creeping through but having to fill out forms for each of the 14 signals that have failed so I’ve suggested we see if we can run via warrington and chat moss to Manchester, change ends in longsight goods loop and run into Trafford from there, will have to see what transpires, secretly I’m hoping that’s what happens as the loco we have hired to drag the train back is a colas 56

[big jim]

Tonight’s pics (hopefully no more to add as I’ve come home for a break and I may not be needed any more

 

first job was to recover the liner from gresty green, as promised got a colas 56 to perform the drag back, only went gresty to basford hall but I wonder if that’s the first 56 on a liner since fastline days! 

 

 

Not the best pic because of the mast!

 

rhen once that was sorted and the 56 put back on its train I jumped in a taxi to stockport to work a Cemex train via manchester Piccadilly and chat moss into basford hall, it normally goes through stockport the other way and heads towards Wilmslow but tonight due to the ongoing issues it came via hazel grove to head towards Manchester

 

that was it for pics as I was so busy, i may still get a call to head to stockport again to conduct the liner back south via Macclesfield but currently it’s routed through the disrupted area on it’s booked route so I won’t be needed (let’s hope it stays that way!)

[mikejames]

hello

my understanding is that the signalling problem 

is at hazel grove - so I don't understand why all the lines towards

manchester from crewe are blocked.

I thought most of the freight went via the 'airport line'

(not actually to the airport) via east didsbury.

why is it causing so much headache for freight?

 

mike j

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by mikejames
change west to east didsbury

[big jim]

Hazel grove isn’t part of this issue, I don’t know if they have been having problems there too though, I doubt it as the Stone train I conducted came that way last night and will do so again later

 

The signalling between crewe Sydney bridge and cheadle Hulme is made by a company called ansaldo and is the only line in the country with it equipped so when whatever happened the other day happened it affected the whole line, it appears to have lost detection so trains are having to be worked through by ticket working and every set of points has had to be clipped and scotched (40 sets) trains are getting special working tickets to allow them to pass 30 consecutive stop signals at danger in the area!

 

the headache being one train can’t set off until the other reaches the other end of the emergency working, normally our trafford park train for example follows the tail light of another freightliner all the way along that section and there is then one 30 mins behind us into Trafford park, it’s currently taking trains 50 mins to get through one at a time! 
 

ive just worked 4M51 as far as crewe and am currently not required so have come home for a bit but I’m expecting a call later to go and meet it’s southbound working back at the station as again it’s likely to be late later and the driver will exceed his hours, I booked on later so can get it back to nuneaton, here’s hoping the phone doesn’t ring though! 
 

landor st waiting room head north 

 

[big jim]

To give you an idea, On these screen shots off opentraintimes website each **** is a failure of some sort (and this isn’t the whole route!) and each one of those signals has to be passed at danger using an emergency special working form

 

to be honest I’ve just looked at my rulebook As I’m typing this thinking ESW must have replaced temporary block working but that’s the next section of the rule book and I’m struggling to see what situational difference there is as to which one would be applied, the only thing I can think of is ESW is for axle counter lines and temp block working is for track circuits, anyone? 
 

 

 

[Siggie in the east]

Morning.

ESW doesn't require a ticket and to get trains moving as soon as possible, it uses boards at the lineside to tell you when it begins and finishes, TBW has a ticket and no boards.

Cheers 

 

Edit*

ESW also requires less staff on the ground and puts more responsibility on the signaller.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Siggie in the east

[big jim]

 @Siggie in the east The train last night certainly had a ticket, RT3190, and it says in the rule book (Module S5, section 5) that one is required, signallers duties are defined in point 5.4 below (starts on previous page but this is most relevant)
 

I didn’t work through the section so can’t comment on the boards being out

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by big jim

[WessexEclectic]

12 hours ago, big jim said:

The signalling between Crewe Sydney bridge and Cheadle Hulme is made by a company called Ansaldo....

 

The saga never ends.

[jamie92208]

18 minutes ago, WessexEclectic said:

 

The saga never ends.

I seem to remember that the Ansaldo contract was done under Railtrack and 5hen had to be descoped to get it to work and that's why Stockport retained mechanical boxes where they had to bring engineers in from India to refurbish them. It was a saga covered extensively  in Roger Ford's column in Modern Railways.

 

Jamie

[dvdlcs]

Ansaldo is now owned by Hitachi.

[Siggie in the east]

4 hours ago, big jim said:

 @Siggie in the east The train last night certainly had a ticket, RT3190, and it says in the rule book (Module S5, section 5) that one is required, signallers duties are defined in point 5.4 below (starts on previous page but this is most relevant).

I didn’t work through the section so can’t comment on the boards being out

 

 

 

 

Apologies, it does! My SSM thought it didn't and I wasn't sure. We havent used it over here at Colchester yet (might explain why i can't find a NR3190 anywhere) and TBW hasn't been put in for around 7 years. 

 

Its like a cross between TBW, single line working and pilot working, with less staff on the ground.

 

Thanks

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Siggie in the east

[big jim]

To be honest this is the first time I’ve seen it too, and it’s been a good 15 year since I’ve done TBW too, hence why the rule book was out last night!

[Fat Controller]

When you see how long the procedure is, you can understand why everything picks up delay. Factor in occasional loss of signal, and it's a recipe for a snarl-up. Not having worked on UK railways, I wasn't aware of such a practice in the UK, but I have encountered the French FREP (Franchissment de reperé fermé ) which is effectively the same, though possibly even more verbose...

BTW, Ansaldo were previously Union Switch and Signal and are now Hitachi.

[flapland]

I wonder if the Crewe issue needs spinning off into its own thread.

 

I had a slow journey to Manchester yesterday from London via Stoke as this issue also requires a single train in a block between Prestbury and just south of Stockport. The Pendeliono I was on had to wait 30 mins to go into the block and then had issues once through which required according to the train manager a complete restart of the train/computer. 

 

As I had to visit Greenfield I chose to take the valid alternative route of Transpennine to Leeds and then LNER to KGX. It a lovely evening so had actually very pleasant between Greenfield and Huddersfield. First time I had been through in daylight since about 1983. 

[big jim]

If nothing else after the chaos of the middle of the week the signalling has given me a quiet weekend, supposed to be on a T3 possession in Trentham last night and today but it’s had to be cancelled as it was needed as a diversionary route

 

all was not lost though, as I was all set for a bit of track work and ready to roll I thought I’d have my own little T3 in the mancave and carried on with a bit more of the layout!

 

I’ll be putting some more pics in my layout thread later 

 

 

[LeeWL]

On 18/09/2020 at 23:31, big jim said:

To give you an idea, On these screen shots off opentraintimes website each **** is a failure of some sort (and this isn’t the whole route!) and each one of those signals has to be passed at danger using an emergency special working form

 

to be honest I’ve just looked at my rulebook As I’m typing this thinking ESW must have replaced temporary block working but that’s the next section of the rule book and I’m struggling to see what situational difference there is as to which one would be applied, the only thing I can think of is ESW is for axle counter lines and temp block working is for track circuits, anyone? 
 

 

 

 

 

 ESW and TBW can both be used on lines with Axle Counters or Track Circuits, as long as the line is signalled under Track Ciircuit Block Regulations.

 

The big advantage of ESW is the speed it can be set up. Provided all the points on the line concerned have correct detection they do not need to be clipped and scotched on the ground. Points are locked up on the panel and reminders applied. This obviously means less people need to be out on the track. As long as there is an entrance signal that can be maintained at danger and a suitable, easily identifiable location for the end of ESW board to be placed then ESW can be introduced relatively quickly. Any points that do not have correct detection must still be secured of course.

 

With TBW all the points must be secured, even if they are detecting correctly. This takes a lot of time and resources. I wouldn't be surprised if ESW replaces TBW at some stage.

 

 

[5BarVT]

31 minutes ago, LeeWL said:

I wouldn't be surprised if ESW replaces TBW at some stage.

My gut feeling is that’s the plan.  No inside knowledge though.

Paul.

[big jim]

The problem over the last few days has been the points haven’t had detection so despite ESW they had to be clipped and scorched, all 40 sets over a 20 mile section! 
 

 

[5BarVT]

Seems to have been freight Salop Goods to Styal and passenger Edgeley to Macclesfield. Hence cancelled possessions via Stoke.

Paul.

[big jim]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

Seems to have been freight Salop Goods to Styal and passenger Edgeley to Macclesfield. Hence cancelled possessions via Stoke.

Paul.

that’s right, the points at sandbach we’re clipped and scotched towards the independent lines and towards styal at Wilmslow so only freight could get through 

Edited September 20, 2020 by big jim

[big jim]

Just a couple from last night, last minute job due to sickness, landor st to trafford park and back to Coventry 

 

running round in Trafford park

 

and all ready to go

 

crewe to Leamington tonight 

[big jim]

Again, just a couple, still covering sickness, MOD crewe to Leamington which was light loco and actually continued to Eastleigh without stopping at kineton as there was no traffic to be added 

 

I should end up with it again in the morning to Donnington near telford 

 

66752

 

I then got asked to do an extra move at the end of the job hams hall to landor st with 66789 which wa s then carrying on to Gloucester to pick up some vehicles to take to sims metals in newport

 

landor to telford then Hereford tomorrow (best part of that job being I get to go to hereford models before my train home!)

[newbryford]

37 minutes ago, big jim said:

 

 

landor to telford then Hereford tomorrow (best part of that job being I get to go to hereford models before my train home!)

 

Send me a list of the bargains before you post in the BH thread.......