d600 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi ive just brought a Dapol oo class 22 loco I was going to fit the dcc decoder but on reading the instruction sheet Dapol says to run the loco in first on dc controlled track has dcc running in will damage the motor so does this mean I have to buy a new dc controller has I sold mine when I went dcc,i was wondering what other rmweb users thoughts are on this has ive just fitted decoders to Hornby,Bachmann and lima straight from the box. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Interesting question, this, (to the non-savvy, like me... who's set up is dcc) as I'm soon to take charge of a Western, and I'm wondering if the same is true??? Seems strange in this day and age if you're compelled to buy 'old technology' in order to run a loco on 'the new'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGJ Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I thought the point of running in was to make the gears less rough, remove bur etc.. my opinion is it doesn't matter weather DCC or not as I don't see how running in on DCC could make any diference. SGJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted April 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi For my 10 pence worth it is only to check the model runs as builder intended before the "complications" of adding the chip. It would be a shame to trash decorder/ sound system costing how much !! for want of a simple test. Surely best test is having bought the model from your local shop (you did, didn`t you ) get them to test it . Or perhaps a budget Bachmann controller is a good investment ? Your choice and if warranty paperwork says DC first then why invalidate and blow up the model in the first few seconds... I have run DC and DCC and no problem. Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I'm getting my Western from my local shop, and, as always, the chappie will give it a go on his test track, but 4 times back and forth on a couple of metres of track doesn't constitute running in... only that it seems to be working ok (or not!) Is Dapol alone in this 'requirement/recommendation'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Considering most models are now available 'DCC Fitted' (some with sound) I very much doubt the manufacturer 'runs' them in before fitting a decoder. I've never bothered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGJ Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi For my 10 pence worth it is only to check the model runs as builder intended before the "complications" of adding the chip. It would be a shame to trash decorder/ sound system costing how much !! for want of a simple test. Surely best test is having bought the model from your local shop (you did, didn`t you ) get them to test it . Or perhaps a budget Bachmann controller is a good investment ? Your choice and if warranty paperwork says DC first then why invalidate and blow up the model in the first few seconds... I have run DC and DCC and no problem. Robert I am in similar position to the op in that I only have a DCC controller, I know I can set the controller to 0 or what number it is for non DCC but the models make a unhealthy buzzing sound when not chipped and that surely would be more damaging in time. I would think that maybe P.M to Dapol Dave to comment as to the reason that it should only be run in on DC may clear the matter up. I haven't got a Dapol locomotive so haven`t read a Dapol Warranty so don't know what the limitations are of the warranty regarding running in. However if it is stated on the warenty that your not allowed to run the model on DCC ( for running in ) then would Dapol be prepared to run the models in prior to sending them to the shops / wholesalers as some people don't have DC any more ( MYSELF AND THE O.P. in this instance )! SGJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGJ Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I have sent a P.M to Dapol Dave for clarification..... Hi Dave, I and a few others have commented on a thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70990-Dapol-class-22-running-in/ It is regarding Running in on DCC and the warranty, I haven't got a cl22 so don't know the warranty limitations but someone had said that you cant run the model in on DCC ( I and the original poster only have DCC controllers ) so would the warranty be invalid, could you comment on the thread with regards to this Many Thanks Simon ( SGJ ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Simply, your locos are all DC motored chassis, so it is best to have a basic DC controller (resistance or variable transformer type, not a BEMF unit) to act as a test unit. Once a decoder is installed on a chassis, determining the cause of any performance problem is confounded by the question: is this the decoder causing the problem, or the DC motored chassis? You can guess all you like, but whipping the decoder out, and testing the chassis on straight DC will immediately resolve that question. I like to get the measure of a new loco acquisition on DC before fitting decoder. That way I know subsequently if performance has degraded. Most locos do improve, even if only in noise output and smoothness at dead slow speed, for an hour of moderate speed running on DC, with occasional alterations of direction, and circuit orientation. This also begins the polishing of wheel treads and wiper contact patches for the reliable electrical pick up which DCC demands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I too am DCC only. I fit my decoder and run in before changing any settings. As Tender says, many are now ready chipped and sound fitted and they don't say run in on DC. I do wonder if, in this day and age, that they really do need running in. Besides, many people have little more than a shunting plank and this is hardly suitable foe the task. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Dapol are not the only one who recommend running in on DC. As so many of my Bachmann and Heljan recommended running in I no longer bother checking and just run everything in on DC. The Dapol 22 I bought showed up its fault during the first 10 minutes of running in - the lights packed up. Running in can have other benefits like settling down the drive train. I've had a couple of Heljan that initially showed a bit of body wobble but after a hour of moderate speed running the wobble disappeared edit: I suppose you could run it in on DCC, but I tend to set it running and leave it unattended (on DC) which is not a good idea with DCC as a derailment or other problem could cause serious damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGJ Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi For my 10 pence worth it is only to check the model runs as builder intended before the "complications" of adding the chip. It would be a shame to trash decorder/ sound system costing how much !! for want of a simple test. Surely best test is having bought the model from your local shop (you did, didn`t you ) get them to test it . Or perhaps a budget Bachmann controller is a good investment ? Your choice and if warranty paperwork says DC first then why invalidate and blow up the model in the first few seconds... I have run DC and DCC and no problem. Robert The Warranty is still valid if you run-in the model on DCC ( just been p.m`d back by Dapol Dave ) TTFN SGJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d600 Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 The Warranty is still valid if you run-in the model on DCC ( just been p.m`d back by Dapol Dave ) TTFN SGJ Hi ive just re-read the class 22 instructions again not sure if im allowed to quote this or not?but this is what it says:''Please note that if you intend to run this locomotive on dcc control we recommend that the engine is run for approximately 30 minutes in each direction on dc operated track and not on dcc power using the oo setting some controllers have as this setting will damage the motor and electronics invalidating the warranty''. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 So what that means is that they won't cover it if you try to run it with no decoder fitted on address 0 that some DCC systems allow. Running it in on a DCC system with a decoder fitted will not invalidate the warranty. In fact, this is what I did with mine; a quick test on a DC controller proved it ran smoothly and that the lights worked. I then fitted a decoder, checked it on the programming track, then ran it for an hour in each direction on DCC. At a later date I fitted a sound decoder - by this time it had proved reliable and had no quirks or foibles and all lights worked correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d600 Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 just tried fitting a lococruiser 21 pin decoder and it wont fit :banghead:can anyone suggest a decoder that does fit the Dapol 22. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I've used a Bachmann one in mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 just tried fitting a lococruiser 21 pin decoder and it wont fit :banghead:can anyone suggest a decoder that does fit the Dapol 22. cheers Mine is fitted with a Zimo 21pin decoder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted April 24, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2013 Loksound v4 in our two - after running in on DC! Have an old H&M I use - normally drives the dremmel Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d600 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 I've used a Bachmann one in mine. Hi jz did you use the Bachmann 36-557 decoder,thanxs to all the other people that sent replies. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Hi jz did you use the Bachmann 36-557 decoder,thanxs to all the other people that sent replies. cheers Mine has a 36-554. The 36-557 wasn't then available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d600 Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 Mine has a 36-554. The 36-557 wasn't then available. Hi I think im going to go with a lenz silver decoder. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 TCS EU621 in mine before swapping to ESU LokSOund v4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Pinch the 9V battery out of the multimeter for a few minutes testing if you dont have a controller.. I always run in on DC as the back emf most decoders have turned on by default can easily mask issues with the mechanics of the loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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