B15nac Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi Just wondering if Newton abbot or Laira sheds had a 36 ton Ransome & rapier breakdown crane? I'm about to model one an I'm interested if there were any based here! Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) Neil, There is already a thread covering this on here. Type Laira or Bristol breakdown cranes into the search facility. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/63621-bristollaira-breakdown-crane-livery-for-the-70s80s/ Dave Edited April 23, 2013 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Hi Just wondering if Newton abbot or Laira sheds had a 36 ton Ransome & rapier breakdown crane? I'm about to model one an I'm interested if there were any based here! Kind regards Neil Newton Abbot had Ransome & Rapier 36T No.3 allocated there during the late 1950's and Cowans Sheldon 15T No.8 from 1936 to 1956. Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Can't seem to find the thread on this dave but will carry on looking! Thanks Andy on that! Now to try an find some pictures! Was no.3 any different in detail? Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Neil...the link is on my post, just click on it. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Neil, Railway Breakdown Cranes Vol.1 by Peter Tatlow is your bible for this topic. It contains images of No.3 and most of the other GW cranes for that matter. http://www.bdca.org.uk is also a useful site for information. Regards, Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Thanks Dave I will have a look through that thread now! I ordered that Peter tatlow volume 1 last week from amazon so I'm hoping it turns up this week! Thanks Andy for the link I will have a look! Regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) Newton Abbot had Ransome & Rapier 36T No.3 allocated there during the late 1950's and Cowans Sheldon 15T No.8 from 1936 to 1956. Andy. I'm fairly certain that a Cowans Sheldon 15 ton crane was at Newton Abbot longer than that - whether it was no. 8 or not - since there's a photo of it behind either a Hymek or a D63xx with a small yellow panel in David Cable's Hydraulics in the West replete with match truck and riding van based on a 4w composite (which went to the Dart Valley and thence to Didcot I think). I think the instructions for the Brassmasters kit for the match truck (or possibly the D&S instructions for the crane) quote 1967 as the withdrawal date. Whatever, when the Brassmasters add on kit for the crane eventually appears, this will be the one I build. Adam Edited July 23, 2013 by Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Hi Adam, The crane you might be thinking about here is this one: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/C205/c205.html It is a 12 ton hand crane and as the link above says, it was rescued from Newton Abbot in the 1960s. The only other main line rail cranes at 81E are the ex NRM 3 ton hand crane: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/537/537.html And RS 1045, the 50 ton Ex LMS Cowans & Sheldon unit: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/50tcrane/50t.html I hope this helps! All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Hi Adam, The crane you might be thinking about here is this one: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/C205/c205.html It is a 12 ton hand crane and as the link above says, it was rescued from Newton Abbot in the 1960s. The only other main line rail cranes at 81E are the ex NRM 3 ton hand crane: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/wagons/537/537.html And RS 1045, the 50 ton Ex LMS Cowans & Sheldon unit: http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/50tcrane/50t.html I hope this helps! All the best, Castle No, the picture definitely shows something bigger than that with the cab that the GW Cowans Sheldon cranes had. When I get home tonight, I'll dig out the book and find the page number. Adam Edited July 23, 2013 by Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Brownlie lists GWR No 8 a 1901 Cowans Sheldon 15 ton lift ex Bristol 1940 to 1962, and No 9 a 35 ton 5 axle Cowans Sheldon ex Rhymney Railway ex Caerphilly 1937 to Worcester 1950. Gordon A Bristol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Ok, so I have now dug the book out and, on page 20, as described, the crane is certainly not the larger 36 ton type - indeed, the style is entirely consistent with Cowans Sheldon and the worksplates are just about visible - while the loco is D6336 and the date is September 1963. Since the author of the book was also the photographer, the date can probably be trusted. It may not be no. 8 of course... Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) The photo in "Hydraulics in the West" is unquestionably GWR No 8, a Cowans Sheldon standard 15-ton crane of 1901, and one of three such identical cranes the GWR owned. There is some confusion with the details of the three GW 15-tonners, largely originating from an error in Brownlie's "Railway Steam Cranes" which asserts that the original No 1 15-ton crane was renumbered to No 7 when the 36-ton Stothert & Pitt crane was delivered in 1909 and assumed the number 1. In fact the No 1 15-tonner became No 8, so from 1911 the GW cranes were:- No 1 - 36-ton Stothert & Pitt crane of 1909 (w/n unknown) No 2 - 36-ton Ransomes & Rapier crane of 1908 (w/n B4411) No 3 - 36-ton Ransomes & Rapier crane of 1911 (w/n B6113) No 4 - 20-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1903 (w/n 2614T) No 5 - 20-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1903 (w/n 2615T) No 6 - 15-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1901 (w/n 2449T) No 7 - 15-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1900 (w/n 2406T) No 8 - 15-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1901 (w/n 2448T) formerly numbered 1 These are in fact the only steam breakdown cranes purchased by the GWR. Several other cranes were taken into GW stock upon the grouping, and the GWR was allocated four 45-ton Ransomes & Rapier cranes on Government account in 1939, but it never ordered any further breakdown cranes itself after 1911. Another perfectly reasonable conclusion from looking at the order numbers, running numbers, and dates in the list above would be that No 7 in the list started life as No 1, No 8 as No 2, and No 6 as No 3, but there is no evidence at all that this is the case! Returning to the photo in "Hydraulics in the West", the crane can only be No 8. The full allocation details for this crane have not come to light, but it is known that it was at NA by 1936 and still there in 1956 (there is some evidence to suggest that it went there in 1910 and stayed to 1960). It was transferred to the CCE at Swindon in 1968. It is known that it was replaced at NA by No 3 (from Landore), but again the date of this change is not known. The photo in this book is actually of significance to us crane nuts simply for the reason that it suggests that No 8 was still at NA, and hence presumably No 3 was not, as late as 1963. It is already known that in 1965 No 3 was itself transferred from NA to Neath, so it seems that its tenure at NA was a short one. The range of cranes allocated to NA over the years is itself confusing, and again a shortage of accurate records makes it difficult to be certain about details and dates. From evidence currently available it would appear that the following cranes were allocated there:- GWR No 8 (15-ton Cowans Sheldon, 1901) from c.1910 to c.1963 GWR No 3 (36-ton Ransomes & Rapier, 1911) from c.1963 to c.1965 GWR No 9 (35-tons Cowans Sheldon, 1911, ex-Rhymney Rly) from 1936 to c.1948 BR(W) ADW151 (45-tons Ransomes & Rapier, 1944, ex-BR(S) 1580S) from 1965 to 1972. Hope this is of interest. Roger Cooke The Breakdown Crane Association. (Edited to correct spelling errors!) Edited January 14, 2014 by craneman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Hi Thanks for that reply with lots of information in that's a great help! Has anyone got a picture of this in Hydraulics in the West? Regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 A belated formal thank you to Roger for that; roll on the Brassmasters upgrade kit. I think my post indicates that I have the book Neil. For copyright reasons I can't (and wouldn't) post it here... If you model the period/area, it is a volume worth having I think, the odd duff caption aside. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rhubarb Loop Posted July 3, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) In "Railway Scenes From The Past: 19 - Railways In And Around Newton Abbot And Torbay" by C. R. Potts there is a marvellous photograph captioned: Aller Junction. 15th October 1960.Probably destined for an engineering operation somewhere, this unusual consignment of two breakdown cranes has just left Aller on the down line, hauled by 'Hall' class 4-6-0 No. 4934 Hindlip Hall and banked by '5101' class 2-6-2T No. 5183. Peter W. Gray Assuming everyone's understanding of the allocations are correct, the train is formed thus: Hall Class 4-6-0 No. 4934 Hindlip Hall DW3 Bogie Match Truck Crane No. 3 Ransomes & Rapier 36-Ton DW3A Match Truck / Crane Tender / Weight Tender (sheeted) DW8 Match Truck Crane No. 8 Cowans Sheldon Standard 15-Ton –Mk2 Swan-necked Jib Four Wheel Riding Van BR Standard Brake Van 5101 Class 2-6-2T No. 5183 It's a superb photograph and well worth tracking down if you haven't already seen it. I was wondering, does anyone have any details about the little 2 axle mess coach? Presumably it was part of Newton Abbot's Breakdown Train. It's quite a clear photograph so assuming there were no early shenanigans and it's an ex GWR passenger vehicle I should be able to work out which diagram of carriage it was in its earlier life. If it did end up at Didcot, is it this one perhaps? http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=64 Cheers, Alex Edited July 3, 2018 by Stumpytrain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craneman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 It is a cracking photo, and I believe your identifications are spot on. It is interesting to note that the 36 ton crane is in steam but there is no give-away for the 15 tonner (the mess coach stove also appears to be "in steam"). It would be fascinating to see an original print of this picture because it is possible that No 3 was at this time fitted with one of the original E R & F Turner boilers, which had been relegated to "spare" status since about 1920, but at least one of which was still extant in the 1960s making its last appearance in No 3 at about this time. Unfortunately the reproduction of the photo lacks sufficient clarity to tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rhubarb Loop Posted July 5, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 5, 2018 It would be fascinating to see an original print of this picture because it is possible that No 3 was at this time fitted with one of the original E R & F Turner boilers, which had been relegated to "spare" status since about 1920, but at least one of which was still extant in the 1960s making its last appearance in No 3 at about this time. Unfortunately the reproduction of the photo lacks sufficient clarity to tell. By complete coincidence, today I've discovered a number of Peter Gray's photographs available to buy online. http://www.transporttreasury.com/p1033857966/ea968c9b3 Maybe a large scale print and a magnifying glass would reveal the detail you're after? Cheers, Alex 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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