Two Varney 1000 hp EMD switchers, all metal version, from 1940's

[bertiedog]

On the Varney with Lindsay style chassis, a bit more thought shows that the easiest way to do it is as in the drawing, it needs no special motor, virtually any small motor would fit, with a spur gear drive down to the main shaft. The worm gear ratio would be about 30;1 and the helical or spur gears at the end 2;1 giving 60:1 overall gear ratio, much better for a slow and powerful switcher.

 

 

It reduces the parts needed a lot, the gearboxes are identical, and the shaft through the middle can be ballraced easily, and three flywheels can be fitted, which should more than duplicate the coasting effect of the Lindsay mechanism.

 

It still leaves the lot fully equalised, able to twist to conform with the tack totally.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Very clever Stephen! I suppose you've already thought of the combination of a curve and the middle drive-shaft? (i.e. in a sharp curve the drive-shaft will come loose and/or fall out) IMO a telescopic system as offered by Hollywood Foundry will solve it and I know you're more then capable of making one yourself

 

Too simple a drawing! if it needs it a tube and rod can replace the main transmission shaft, but if I fit large deep cups on the universals they work just as well, after all we don't all go round 14 inch curves!!..... Seriously I only build my HO stuff to go around about 30 inch radius curves.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Ordered on Ebay some 1/8th ball races for the Lindsay style transmission, for the tube ends. They can be sleeved 2mm to take a 2mm shaft to suit Ultrascale gear pinions. Nice flanged ballraces, 50 p each, not bad these days. Should make a nice press fit into the tube ends, with the flange helping them stay in line.

 

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

For reference, a scan of the Lindsay instructions, showing a single powered bogie option, not bad for 1948. The motor is a seven pole skewed slot ringfield Lindsay.

 

Lindsay's own switcher body was cast brass, and stamped copperplate, and later appeared in the Kemtron lists.

 

The transmission parts always seem to have been designed and sold as suitable for the Varney diecast body as well.

 

I have got some more Lindasy paperwork on the way from the States.

 

 

 

_{For reference Lindsay copyright, lapsed company, if the owner contact if the removal is required.}

[bertiedog]

To save a bit of money I have set up the milling machine in the workshop as a gear hobber and I am doing the gears myself, which saves about 20GBP. I can gash cut all four blanks at once and simply divide up the set of four gears afterwards.

 

I will do some photos as it's done, I have to work out the DP etc., and grind a new single point gear cutter to suit, to provide 100 DP 30:1 gears in hard brass, with a Colphos bronze worm.

 

It means I do not have to re-drill commercial gears to fit the chassis, they can be turned and drilled all in one setting, retaining concentricity completely.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Too rash, I of course realised on setting up I can't do a helical form on a wide blank, only straight teeth, which work as worms but are a poorer alternative.

So each gear will have to be cut individually, which will take a lot extra in time! One done and another three to go plus a spare.

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The new Ballraces have arrived by post, they are Borden make, one is flangeless, but same spec., ¹/₈^th inch bore and ³/₈^th inch outer diameter casing., (ex-surplus Ebay). The main shaft will by 2mm, so will need sleeves to run in the ¹/₈^th inch races.

 

These will be used on the replica Lindsay style mechanism, on the transmission tube ends, and now I have the ballraces, the transmission support tubes dimensions can be fully worked out.

 

The dimensions are rather vital to be able to work out the worm gear centre dimensions, as it will be difficult to adjust later on, although the wheel bearings will be made adjustable up and down, to allow a bit of leeway to get the best gear mesh for quiet and efficient running.

 

With the ballraces, the flywheels should work better, and give smoother running. The Lindsay mechanism was noted to be able to coast to a halt, although not quite as good as the Hobbytown mechanism, which had a clutch in the flywheel to disconnect the drive when the power was off.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The shots are of the second Varney 1000hp Switcher which arrived today from Ebay, 99 pence .....It had some very obvious problems with the cab fit, it sagged out of line and it was a bit more serious as the whole footplate was warped.

 

No Mazak rot though and I deliberately broke the footplate, and repaired the lot by using the cab as a jig to hold the footplate in alignment, glueing the parts together. Screws will be added in a couple of places to strenghten the joints.

 

Mazak does not like bending, and a break was the only practical way. The joint will be covered underneath the footplate, with a screwed on thin brass plate to strengthen the glued joint.

 

I had meant to take shots before the work, but the camera batteries were flat, they needed charging up, so I went ahead with full clean up and repair in one go. The parts were very dirty, and had flash on all joints, so it had never been assembled before.

 

The cab is now square and the footplate, and step ends, secure and squarely fitted. the work has revealed that Gordon Varney made at least two versions of the switcher, this second body matches the earlier 1940's type, with smaller side tanks and the loco is 4mm longer than the later one, which matches about 1950 type, going by the instructions sheets and details from the net.

 

There are a number on minor differences as well in details, and coupler pockets sizes etc, despite the two sharing the same parts numbers, cast on to the mazak interiors.

 

The body has cleaned up well, a few minor fillings are needed to cover the repairs, and now the chassis work for both, and another session drilling the handrail holes again.

 

New body

New body

Cab end

New and old, (with handrail holes)

Side by side

 

 

 

A slight improvement over this?

[bertiedog]

This shot shows the differences in detail a bit better.

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

Working on handrails for both, and fighting the old Varney details which are somewhat wrong on the pilots, so making the parts to suit the model arrangement rather than strict scale.

 

The basic wire is .4 mm and .6 mm hard brass, with silver plated .4 mm copper for more complex shapes. The stanchion bases for the handrails are electrical insultation clipped to size, with glue assembly. The metal wire to other wire is soldered. The grab irons are glued to the Mazak castings.

 

On the second older body some of the handrail supports are not cast correctly, but the wire glues on OK, and it barely shows.

 

To make sure all matches up on both models, I have made some small wood and pin jigs for bending the wires to shape.

 

Stephen

[CraigZ]

Impressive what you're doing with these old girls. A tip - the handrail under the radiator sticks up at an angle. See

 

http://www.fourthray.com/Peter/Equipment/NW2/index.htm

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=310687&nseq=2

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=305879&nseq=12

 

Hope this helps...

[bertiedog]

Impressive what you're doing with these old girls. A tip - the handrail under the radiator sticks up at an angle. See

 

http://www.fourthray...t/NW2/index.htm

http://www.railpictu...d=310687&nseq=2

http://www.railpictu...=305879&nseq=12

 

Hope this helps...

 

Simply not glued in to place so far! The grab rails in place are there simply to measure things up before bending the final ones.

 

Working at moment to see if some brass stanchion bases can be made... or not.... they are rather tiny at .4 dia and .7mm od, and .6mm high. The alternative is plastic insulation, clipped up, which should work as things have to be glued to the mazak, rather than soldering, but brass looks nicer!!!

 

Quite why the switcher pilots are just different from the real thing is odd, they are simply all a bit out of dimension, suggesting Varney worked from a different example. The steps at the front are outside the frame rather than behind the pilot front frame.

 

I have collected a few dozen shots from the net for details, which as usual are all over the place when you look hard enough.

 

From what I have found out it seems Lindsay designed and made the moulds for the Varney switcher, but went on with their own all brass version just after the war. The improvement was the separate chassis, a major problem with the Varney was the mechanism used the body as the chassis, making testing difficult etc, a very real problem. Also the metal rang like a bell, making the loco noisy. The Lindsay chassis had rubber mounts to isolate the vibration, and run a lot quieter.

 

The Athearn chassis has rubber mounts which do the same quieting down of vibration and motor noise.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

 

The picture shows the Lindsay/Varney pilot with the step plates at the front to the outside, raised up, rather than recessed behind the front plate. Most real ones have the recessed arrangement, although I have found an example like the Varney layout, and also flat front ones, probably re-builds after damage.

 

It looks from the Lindsay drawing that the steps have the hole pattern in them, which the cast Varney do not, and I am not about to drill about a hundred holes in the steps!

 

Stephen.

[alcoRS1]

 

The picture shows the Lindsay/Varney pilot with the step plates at the front to the outside, raised up, rather than recessed behind the front plate. Most real ones have the recessed arrangement, although I have found an example like the Varney layout, and also flat front ones, probably re-builds after damage.

 

It looks from the Lindsay drawing that the steps have the hole pattern in them, which the cast Varney do not, and I am not about to drill about a hundred holes in the steps!

 

Stephen.

 

what about cutting the platforms off and putting brass ones with the holes on?

[bertiedog]

what about cutting the platforms off and putting brass ones with the holes on?

 

Cutting away would weaken the ends too much as the design assumes the castings support everything.

I have actually been trying to trace possible supplies of Kemtron's version in lost wax brass, which was based the Lindsay item.

 

Frankly there is very little chance of finding these long discontinued items, and making four scratch-built ends for these vintage bodies is not worth it.

 

Stephen.

[alcoRS1]

Cutting away would weaken the ends too much as the design assumes the castings support everything.

I have actually been trying to trace possible supplies of Kemtron's version in lost wax brass, which was based the Lindsay item.

 

Frankly there is very little chance of finding these long discontinued items, and making four scratch-built ends for these vintage bodies is not worth it.

 

Stephen.

 

what about attaching a small brass perforated plate on top, it would have to be thin, but it would give the impression of holes. just an idea.

[bertiedog]

It seems that, from a phone call, that Kemtron castings are still available for the EMD trucks sideframes, and maybe the NW-2 pilot ends as well.

 

Precision Scale Co in the States manufacture the lost wax castings these days. I will send an enquiry and see what is still made in the way of cast brass items for these locomotives.

 

I don't think it would work adding brass tops to the steps, they are already very thick, and you would never get the light showing through the steps. I can't remember whether the Lindsay/Kemtron pilot had drilled out holes or just the pattern.

 

Stephen.

[bertiedog]

The Kemtron pilot end is the same as the older Linsday item, both designed to fit the Varney body shell, and Precision Scale do make them, but cost is high, more than the two locos cost. So continuing with detailing the Varney die cast originals as the most cost effective solution.

Stephen.

[thnksno]

Greetings!

 

I've been lurking in this thread anxiously awaiting completion of these models... I've recently acquired two Cary switchers and am completely clueless as to how to deal with the metal but am learning quickly.

 

The two shells I've got are an EMD SW1500 and an Alco SW2 or SW4 depending on what trucks are placed underneath. I have Athearn drives for them and they will both be set up for DCC. The SW1500 is somewhat disappointing as there are no holes to allow for lighting the locomotive, further it appears that were I to bore holes into the shell, it would be into solid metal. Additionally, the exhaust stacks are solid having no openings. I'm not looking forward to attempting to drill into the stacks, they are small and a large bit would be needed to make the openings to scale, perhaps it will take multiple passes with larger bits to open them up. Another disappointment is the fuel tanks, the SW1500 comes with air tanks but nothing to cover the Athearn frame like the SW2/4 has. Cary offered 'bulge tanks' for the SW1500, I cannot find them anywhere but did find some EMD Switcher Extended Range Fuel Tanks from Custom Finishing Models, hopefully these will work.

 

Thanks for the great thread, there aren't many folks working with cast metal shells these days so this is a great resource! Here's some pics of my shells.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bertiedog]

The Cary locos are a bit rarer in the UK than the Varney it seems!

 

The cast body is I believe "type metal" not Zinc, so are somewhat heavier than Mazak and is solderable with low melt solder, (Woods alloy). The Varney shells are not really solderable, however much in theory Mazak can be soldered, as the big zinc castings absorb so much heat, making it preferable to use glue, epoxy or superglue than risk the high level of heat. It is sometimes possible with Mazak to use 145 degree solder, with a really acid flux to tin the parts for soldering.

 

Wood's alloy,(low melt Carrs), melts at under 100^{o c} and will take to the Cary shells as far as I am aware, without a problem, again with an acid flux.

 

The tanks may have to be a bit of scratchbuilding, in brass etc I don't think any body has continued with the parts, but Bowser owned the moulds. If the tank parts and pipes, are made in brass, the details can be soldered normally, but then the tanks could be glued, (or screwed), on.

 

It should not be difficult to drill the bodies, the metal is softer than Mazak, use a small pilot hole and open up gradually to size, should drill OK with a hand drill or slow power drill, not a high speed drill, which cut so fast in tin type that they can wander off line.

 

Where the lamp lines up with the body casting, go as deep as reasonable, and the drill outwards at an angle from inside the shell till the hole meets up with the one from outside, and then use 1.5/2mm fibre optic light guide which should be able to squeeze along the cranked hole.

 

Stephen.

[thnksno]

Thank you, I was thinking of drilling both ways to get lighting in there but instead was planning to drill the lights first and then grind down a depression inside the shell to get to the holes. I like the idea of light guides but have found once I get the decoder inside plastic shelled SW1500/SW7's that there's not much room. As such I've opted for bending the original Athearn light holder back and shrink wrapping a decoder to the top. For lighting, I've used 1.5mm 1.5volt focused bulbs and resistors mounted under the shell. I then connect the frame/motor to the shell and use some hacked up IC sockets to make the connection between the lighting in the shell and the decoder on the frame. I saw you mentioned the light guides earlier and have been wondering how you might set those up because I'm thinking you would need to mount the source light somewhere in the shell and then run the guides to it, but can't see where that will fit?

 

Good information on the metal all around, I'm clueless! The EMD shell weighs 11oz without the details and cab back, the Alco weighs 8.6oz without the details, cab back and pilots, there's also a brass plate that covers the cab roof, the EMD came with a piece of card-stock for the cab roof. The Athearn frame with metal side frames weighs 7oz, so these will be EXCELLENT pullers, no doubt! I'm debating keeping the sintered iron wheels for better traction effort, but have some NWSL wheels made for the metal side frames.

 

If interested, I know I am... Bowser still sells the Baldwin Switcher along with some F3, FT and E bodies I believe. So I'm thinking this week I might order up a Baldwin $34.95USD to make a trio of switchers and work on them all at once. I'm mainly concerned about the finishing as I think it'll be easier to set up paint once for all 3 than go through the mess 3 times. I haven't decided on road yet, I don't type model as much as I enjoy building the locomotives and rolling stock, but have been searching for roads that used all 3 type switchers to keep the finish work minimal. My layout is a slightly enlarged shelf layout centered around switching and round table/engine house, just big enough to make stuff move. lol! Some day I'll get going on something more prototypical, for now I'll keep collecting and getting things ready for that day.

[bertiedog]

Thank you, I was thinking of drilling both ways to get lighting in there but instead was planning to drill the lights first and then grind down a depression inside the shell to get to the holes. I like the idea of light guides but have found once I get the decoder inside plastic shelled SW1500/SW7's that there's not much room. As such I've opted for bending the original Athearn light holder back and shrink wrapping a decoder to the top. For lighting, I've used 1.5mm 1.5volt focused bulbs and resistors mounted under the shell. I then connect the frame/motor to the shell and use some hacked up IC sockets to make the connection between the lighting in the shell and the decoder on the frame. I saw you mentioned the light guides earlier and have been wondering how you might set those up because I'm thinking you would need to mount the source light somewhere in the shell and then run the guides to it, but can't see where that will fit?

 

Good information on the metal all around, I'm clueless! The EMD shell weighs 11oz without the details and cab back, the Alco weighs 8.6oz without the details, cab back and pilots, there's also a brass plate that covers the cab roof, the EMD came with a piece of card-stock for the cab roof. The Athearn frame with metal side frames weighs 7oz, so these will be EXCELLENT pullers, no doubt! I'm debating keeping the sintered iron wheels for better traction effort, but have some NWSL wheels made for the metal side frames.

 

If interested, I know I am... Bowser still sells the Baldwin Switcher along with some F3, FT and E bodies I believe. So I'm thinking this week I might order up a Baldwin $34.95USD to make a trio of switchers and work on them all at once. I'm mainly concerned about the finishing as I think it'll be easier to set up paint once for all 3 than go through the mess 3 times. I haven't decided on road yet, I don't type model as much as I enjoy building the locomotives and rolling stock, but have been searching for roads that used all 3 type switchers to keep the finish work minimal. My layout is a slightly enlarged shelf layout centered around switching and round table/engine house, just big enough to make stuff move. lol! Some day I'll get going on something more prototypical, for now I'll keep collecting and getting things ready for that day.

 

If the bodies are modern production, the metal is more likely to be lead free Pewter metal, still solderable, but more difficult to solder due to higher temperature needed. Recently Bowser have stopped US production of the Steamers, I do not know if this covers the diesels at the moment.

 

Using fibre optics, the lamps can be placed anywhere in the body, no particular restrictions. Stay light is stopped with a sleeve or paint. Black heat shrink sleeving can be used to connect LEDs to the optic fibre. A lens can be formed on the end in the lamp by exposing the plastic optic fibre to heat till it almost melts, at which point it swells and forms a lens shaped end. Exposure to the heat from a soldering iron, without touching, should work. Other than that a small blob of clear epoxy will form a lens cover.

 

Stephen.

[alcoRS1]

small blob of clear epoxy will form a lens cover.

 

mircoscales Krystal Klear is great for that.

[alcoRS1]

 

 

 

 

 

loving that Alco S2/S4.

[thnksno]

Got it! Was thinking of using krystal klear or similar to make windows, I don't know yet, that's another trick I'm looking to overcome.

 

The Cary shells that Bowser has are remaining stock, when they're gone, they're gone for good!

 

Cary Bodies

 

I stand corrected on the price, they're actually cheaper, $34.44 - - Also, don't know where my head was, it's the FM switcher I was referring to. Only the PITT remains for steam.