Trains in Trafford park

[bennyboy]

To my utter regret at the height of my interest in trains I never got on my bike and rode to Trafford Park and had a look round - it was still a working port, it had trains and was a hive of industry albeit decaying.

 

I used to watch the trip workings from there pass my house and never went to see where they actually ended up.

 

I'm exactly the same as even in the 90s I never went to have a look at it. I suspect it was largely because I didn't really know exactly which bits were still in use and I just presumed that it was mostly abandoned. 

[woodenhead]

I'm exactly the same as even in the 90s I never went to have a look at it. I suspect it was largely because I didn't really know exactly which bits were still in use and I just presumed that it was mostly abandoned.

 

By the 90s I was commuting through Trafford Park daily, there wasn't a great deal to see operationally though they did relay track through a new roundabout for the Cerestar traffic and at one time there were lines filled with MGR wagons awaiting scrapping.

[PenrithBeacon]

Does anyone know which shade of green the Trafford Park Estate Class 08/09 shunters were painted?

 

Regards

[PhilJ W]

The only photos of them I have seen are in black and white. The earlier industrials were painted in a slightly darker shade of LNER green.

Edited February 19, 2019 by PhilJ W

[keefer]

08423 and Janus in 1991: https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/35553120290

08423 and 08669: https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p548073085/h4800F26A#h4800f26a

09002 and 09009 in 2011: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32865578@N02/6273384556

The earlier 08s would seem to match the lighter green of the Janus, but the 09s seem closer to BR brunswick green

 

[SHMD]

09009 is now stabled at Miles Platting on the "Collyhurst St" sidings and appears to be employed on p-way / electrification duties.

It is still in green but seems to be much darker then in the photo linked to above.

 

 

Kev.

 

[PenrithBeacon]

3 hours ago, keefer said:

08423 and Janus in 1991: https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/35553120290

08423 and 08669: https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p548073085/h4800F26A#h4800f26a

09002 and 09009 in 2011: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32865578@N02/6273384556

The earlier 08s would seem to match the lighter green of the Janus, but the 09s seem closer to BR brunswick green

 

As you say, the two earlier photos seem to depict the engines in a much more vivid green than the last which appears to show them in BR green.

 

Thanks for the links

Edited February 19, 2019 by PenrithBeacon

[Peter A Hall]

On ‎28‎/‎04‎/‎2013 at 11:07, PhilJ W said:

I have a book called 'Transport Treasures of Trafford Park'. Published in 1973 ISBN 0 903839 01 6. This is a photo album of Trafford Park from the late Victorian period until 1973. It was published to commemorate Transpo '73, a transport exhibition held in the docks as part of the Festival of Manchester. I would suggest seeking out a copy as it has many illustrations of activity's in the park.

 

I went to 'Transpo '73', being in my early teens. The exhibition was held during May 1973. Although I attended I didn't record what was on display but did take a few pictures. I've found little information regarding actual exhibits present as opposed to those proposed.

It seems it was intended to display a brand new Class 87 and an ex works Class 24/25. However it seems a Class 81 was substituted for the Class 87 and the Class 24/25 was pinched part way through to work trains. Does anyone know the numbers of the locomotives involved?

I would also be interested to know which other locomotives, carriages and buses were on display.

[PhilJ W]

Sadly it doesn't include the exhibits at Transpo 73.

[Mol_PMB]

I've been for a wander around Trafford Park today looking for remains of the railways there. Apart from rails set in the tarmac/concrete/setts of road crossings, there isn't much left. Even many of the former road crossings have been covered over or renewed entirely. About the longest stretch still in existence is 500 yards or so of single track along Trafford Park Road, plus a nearby bit in Mosley Road.

There's some on Ashburton Road / Lyons Road too. Of course I couldn't go into the industrial premises to see if there was more inside, but looking into Cargill from the approach to Centenary Bridge the tracks are still there.

 

On the north side of the canal, the Weaste branch has recently seen some maintenance including new rail fastenings, greased fishplates and vegetation clearance. I believe Network Rail have been making preparations to bring the junction back into use too.

 

Two ships in Salford today - 'Arkonia' at Weaste unloading cement, and 'Pinnau' at Irwell Park loading scrap.

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I've been for a wander around Trafford Park today looking for remains of the railways there. Apart from rails set in the tarmac/concrete/setts of road crossings, there isn't much left. Even many of the former road crossings have been covered over or renewed entirely. About the longest stretch still in existence is 500 yards or so of single track along Trafford Park Road, plus a nearby bit in Mosley Road.

There's some on Ashburton Road / Lyons Road too. Of course I couldn't go into the industrial premises to see if there was more inside, but looking into Cargill from the approach to Centenary Bridge the tracks are still there.

 

On the north side of the canal, the Weaste branch has recently seen some maintenance including new rail fastenings, greased fishplates and vegetation clearance. I believe Network Rail have been making preparations to bring the junction back into use too.

 

Two ships in Salford today - 'Arkonia' at Weaste unloading cement, and 'Pinnau' at Irwell Park loading scrap.

The junction down to the Weaste terminal has been known to host the Royal Train with Maam in attendance.

 

Since the 1990s, the tracks in Trafford Park have slowly been removed - mainly through road schemes though they did alter the trackplan when the original Village Circle roundabout was installed which removed a reversal move and allowed the tracks on Wharfside way to be lifted.  The last use of Wharfside Way other than running round had been to store condemned MGR wagons awaiting scrapping nearby - was odd driving to work and going past all those wagons every day. 

 

Ashburton road retained it's tracks for a bit and at one point they actually weeded the gravel and it looked like they had plans to use the track but eventually it too was lifted apart from a couple of buffer stops.

 

Once the Cerestar / Cargill traffic ceased then that track became covered over, claimed by businesses and now even the track across the road has been reclaimed with just the new tarmac showing where the track used to be - it gets hammered with HGVs there so that's probably why they've lifted the track now.  There is probably still track embedded in the concrete within the works but it falls into that too hard to remove kinda issue.

[montyburns56]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

On the north side of the canal, the Weaste branch has recently seen some maintenance including new rail fastenings, greased fishplates and vegetation clearance. I believe Network Rail have been making preparations to bring the junction back into use too.

 

I think the last time that the Weaste line had normal traffic was when the New Barton Lift Bridge over the MSC collapsed a few years ago and the Cement Terminal received its first train in years.

[Mol_PMB]

7 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I think the last time that the Weaste line had normal traffic was when the New Barton Lift Bridge over the MSC collapsed a few years ago and the Cement Terminal received its first train in years.

Correct, and I think it was just one trainload. It took them ages to get the line fettled.

I wondered whether the latest work was in preparation for a no-deal Brexit when cement from Ireland might have been hit by tariffs, making UK cement cheaper again.

 

[montyburns56]

6 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Correct, and I think it was just one trainload. It took them ages to get the line fettled.

I wondered whether the latest work was in preparation for a no-deal Brexit when cement from Ireland might have been hit by tariffs, making UK cement cheaper again.

 

 

Indeed, you could well be right. The re-opening of the line could be an unexpected Brexit bonus! 

[montyburns56]

I came across this 1992 picture on Flickr and I thought that I'd post it as I think it's where the line crosses Mosley Rd and I've never seen a picture of a train in this section in modern times. Anway it's pulling Cerestar wagons and they look like it's the short wheelbase PCAs as modelled by Graham Farish years ago. Having said that there's no reason for it to be on this section as Cerestar is connected to a different part of the line, so???

 

 

I think this one is on the section between Tenax Rd and Ashburton Road West.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by montyburns56

[woodenhead]

10 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

I came across this 1992 picture on Flickr and I thought that I'd post it as I think it's where the line crosses Mosley Rd and I've never seen a picture of a train in this section in modern times. Anway it's pulling Cerestar wagons and they look like it's the short wheelbase PCAs as modelled by Graham Farish years ago. Having said that there's no reason for it to be on this section as Cerestar is connected to a different part of the line, so???

 

 

No, that's the correct road - they used to traverse along Trafford Park Rd to what is now Cargill

[montyburns56]

11 hours ago, woodenhead said:

No, that's the correct road - they used to traverse along Trafford Park Rd to what is now Cargill

 

Yeah, but to get onto this section they have to turn left at the junction pictured below. To go to Cerestar/Cargills they carry on along Trafford Park Road. This train is either coming from or going to the Ashburton Road West section which led to the former Steelworks/Ciba Geigy. I did wonder if it was a reversal move, but as there was a loop outside Cerestar I can't understand why they would need to.

[woodenhead]

19 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

 

Yeah, but to get onto this section they have to turn left at the junction pictured below. To go to Cerestar/Cargills they carry on along Trafford Park Road. This train is either coming from or going to the Ashburton Road West section which led to the former Steelworks/Ciba Geigy. I did wonder if it was a reversal move, but as there was a loop outside Cerestar I can't understand why they would need to.

 

Perhaps it was to run round, originally they used to come alongside warehousing at the Manchester end of Trafford Park road and then push back to Cerestar, but once the put in the roundabout in the late 90s then a direct route was established with a reversal - the loco though would be at the head of the train all the way to Cerestar.  I would have thought they could run round within Cerestar though.

[montyburns56]

4 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Perhaps it was to run round, originally they used to come alongside warehousing at the Manchester end of Trafford Park road and then push back to Cerestar, but once the put in the roundabout in the late 90s then a direct route was established with a reversal - the loco though would be at the head of the train all the way to Cerestar.  I would have thought they could run round within Cerestar though.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot that the direct route through Village Circle was later addition, 1995 I think it was. Still it seems to have come a long way down the track for such a short train if it was just a reversal. Anyway here's a pic I took in 2008 of the same section and sadly now the trackbed has been turned into a road to provide access for a nearby business.

 

[25901]

Here's a couple from (I think) Dec 2005 while visiting the estate

[Mol_PMB]

Here’s a nice older photo in Trafford Park, before the MSC took over shunting movements in the Park. 

 

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/documents/aa110015939/works-photographic-negative-of-cable-drum-on-railway-wagon-trafford-park

 

Note the TP logo on the cabside, the Glover’s cable drum, and the unusual LNWR wagon carrying it. I wonder if this wagon would appeal to @airnimal for a future project? 

 

Mol

 

[woodenhead]

Wondering if it is a works engine supporting building sites in Trafford Park - looks like it is laying the cable.

[airnimal]

Mol,  I have already built the body about 2 years ago. I am just waiting for some 2' 8" wagon wheels to finish it off with. Modelling in S7 the only choice of spoke wagon wheels in S7 is Alan Gibson. I ordered some  about 18 months ago only to be told that they haven't any in stock and they will be some time because they have other priorities which I understand.  

[Mol_PMB]

36 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Wondering if it is a works engine supporting building sites in Trafford Park - looks like it is laying the cable.

Prior to 1922, Trafford Park Estates had their own fleet of locos for shunting in the Park. But the MSC took over in that year and the TPE locos were sold. 

However, both the MSC and some other companies also had running powers.

I agree that the photo is most likely taken within the Park, but I'm sure Glovers would have exported many of their cable drums by rail too.

There was also a fleet of TPE wagons of various types. Both the locos and wagons carried the combined TP logo.

In much later years after the MSC stopped serving the Park, some of the secondhand diesels bought by TPE also carried the original TP logo.

 

The TPE steam locos included the following:

'Sheriff' 0-6-0ST (AB 903/1900)

'Colonel Moseley' 0-4-0ST (AB 905/1901)

'Sir William Bailey' 0-4-0ST (HC 841/1908)

'Sir Joseph Lyons' 0-6-0T (HC 1249/1916) - same design as an MSC 'long tank'

'Lord Ashburton' 0-6-0T (HC 1250/1916) - same design as an MSC 'long tank'

'Sir Walter Royse' 0-6-0ST (?)

(no name) 0-4-0ST (P 1493/1917)

 

I've seen photos of 'Sheriff', 'Sir William Bailey', 'Sir Joseph Lyons' and 'Lord Ashburton'.

 

27 minutes ago, airnimal said:

Mol,  I have already built the body about 2 years ago. I am just waiting for some 2' 8" wagon wheels to finish it off with. Modelling in S7 the only choice of spoke wagon wheels in S7 is Alan Gibson. I ordered some  about 18 months ago only to be told that they haven't any in stock and they will be some time because they have other priorities which I understand.  

 

Bravo! I thought it looked like the sort of wagon that would appeal to you, but I hadn't realised you had actually made one. It looks great so far, a pity the wheels are unavailable at present.

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Here’s a nice older photo in Trafford Park, before the MSC took over shunting movements in the Park. 

 

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/documents/aa110015939/works-photographic-negative-of-cable-drum-on-railway-wagon-trafford-park

 

Note the TP logo on the cabside, the Glover’s cable drum, and the unusual LNWR wagon carrying it. I wonder if this wagon would appeal to @airnimal for a future project? 

 

Mol

 

That is a nice photo, and interesting to see a wagon built to carry road vehicles being used in a different way. There were 20 [+ 1 similar] of these LNWR high machine and 19 survived through to the beginning of BR. The LMS number was 204824, diagram special 55 and as a Hymac MA it, and most of the others, are still in the 1953 list of Specials. 

 

Seeing the model finished would be interesting. 

 

Paul