CazRail Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I have to say, what a superb bit of modelling! Ive worked at this location irl, and you've captured it very well. There is a retaining wall at the Bangor end of the viaduct, will that be included? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 Caz and Howard, I enjoy getting your comments from persons who know thew area very well. Given I have never been there the assurances as to the accuracy of the model are very reassuring. Thank you both again. Caz I will be putting in the retaining walls on the way back to Penmaenmawr and towards Bangor. There are also a couple of avalanche shelters back to Penmaenmawr one of which is completed and the other only requires roof supports and the roof. I am now modelling behind the Rail viaduct. I only have one picture showing the land fall under the rail viaduct, which appears to be rising to the back. I have quite a few photos behind the viaduct. There is a flat area behind the viaduct and then another rise to the sea wall. I have added the rise next to the sea wall and the angled part of the sea wall, with a walkway on top at the foot of the road viaduct. I need to add more foam sections to get the rail viaduct rise and continue that height back to the sea wall. More foam shaping to be completed. Photos of progress so far below. View from above showing the gradient change next to the sea wall and the sea wall angle cut to create the angled sea wall at the top of the wall. Horizontal view. I shall cut a large rising section to about 20ml and then cut it up to fit between the piers. I then need to match the height at the back of the rail viaduct piers and continue the height difference back to the sea wall, with a flat section and then the same gradient as already exists next to the sea wall. This section will need a stair way and landing as show in the photo by Jamie below. This photo by Jamie really shows the walkway on the left, the sloping sea wall at the top and the stairs at the end of the niche, with a water drain through the stone work. I am a little cramped for space in this area in order to provide enough space for a real walkway around the layout. This photo also show off the ground height at the back of the Rail viaduct piers. Onto the foam cutting and shaping!! Regards, Anthony Ashley 13 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazRail Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Anthony Ashley said: I enjoy seeing places where I've been/worked being modelled. The retaining wall Im taking about rund adjacent to the post and rail fence seen just to the right of the road bridge. The tree that can be seen to the right of the fence is on top of the wall. We cleared the wall of vegetation last year, including removing all the ivy that was on it. The vantage point from it to take photos of trains is great, though it's firmly within railway boundary, so inaccessible to do so. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Caz, Are you saying there is a retaining wall running nearly parallel with the road viaduct, starting at the junction of the fence line and the metal hand railing just above the corner of the niche, and lies between the 2 trees. It can just be seen in the photo. How far does it run? I would not have noticed it without your pointing it out, as it can only just be seen in the photo. How high is it and what is it made of? I presume it does not follow the wooden fence running behind the road viaduct. I do not think there will be any clear photos of it on the internet. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited July 5, 2020 by Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazRail Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) The wall runs paralel the down line(towards Bangor), about 5 metres away from it and runs for approximately 150 to 200 yards. It's a stone wall. At the viaduct end of it, there used to be a p-way hut. Here is the best photo(not mine, found on Flickr) of it I can find. The viaduct is visible on the curve. The height of the wall varies. Working from the viaduct end, it starts at about 3metres height for about 70 yards, then slopes up to approximately 5m high, then slopes down the ground level. Edited July 5, 2020 by CazRail 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 Caz, Thanks very much the photos will help. At 150 to 200 yds it will certainly have a presence in the layout, although I may need to shorten it somewhat. Regards, Anthony Ashley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazRail Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, CazRail said: Here is the best photo(not mine, found on Flickr) of it I can find. The viaduct is visible on the curve. The height of the wall varies. Working from the viaduct end, it starts at about 3metres height for about 70 yards, then slopes up to approximately 5m high, then slopes down the ground level. Just edited my previous post as you replied. It would probably be an idea to shorten it, yes. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 Caz, Thanks very much for the photo I had no idea what was at that end of the road viaduct. The photo will enable me to create this specific area. There is a hell of a lot of vegetation above the retaining wall. Well done for this contribution and thanks very much. Regards, Anthony Ashley 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazRail Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Anthony Ashley said: Caz, Thanks very much for the photo I had no idea what was at that end of the road viaduct. The photo will enable me to create this specific area. There is a hell of a lot of vegetation above the retaining wall. Well done for this contribution and thanks very much. Regards, Anthony Ashley Not a problem, Im glad to have been able to help. I can't seem to find much about the p-way hut at the Conwy end, the concrete base is there to this day. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 Caz, Any photos you find of the area are greatly appreciated. I have spent the last 7 years searching for more and have exhausted my avenues. I have cut all the foam . Pictures are below. The only issue I have now is how to finish the ground under the arches. i think there are 2 types of ground surface in the area of the rail viaduct. 1 is in the photo above. Which can be created by using plaster and then scattering small round stones into the plaster and pressing them down. The other surface is more like a really rough concrete, which I can replicate using plaster moulded river beds. The problem I have is how to use the plaster without damaging the viaduct. There are 3 options: pour the plaster onto the angled surface with the viaduct in situ. There is little room between the viaduct roof and the surface and I am concerned about damaging the viaduct. mark the position of the foam creating the rising area on the base board, remove the viaduct, glue the foam inserts to the board. Do the plaster work and then reinsert the viaduct. Not sure that I can be accurate enough to get the viaduct to fit exactly as the foam inserts have to be very tight and I do not think I will be able to get it back. Take the foam inserts out. Glue the 2 sections for each rise under the viaduct to baking paper to ensure they are properly glued. Use other foam on the sides of each insert to create 2 walls . Do the plaster work and let it dry and then reinstall and stick the inserts between the piers. I can then make as much mess as I like during the plaster process and can wash off the foam walls quite vigorously without effect. Once I reinstall the foam inserts I can then use a pipette to drop in tiny bits of plaster to fill in any gaps. I then have to blend in the other sections behind the piers, which will be done with the viaduct removed. I can use the same technique for the plaster river bed moulds. I think option 3 is the best one. I have Ross coming over this evening so will get a second opinion. Regards, Anthony Ashley 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pirouets Posted July 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2020 On 05/07/2020 at 02:15, Anthony Ashley said: Given I have never been there Out interest then, not sure if this was mentioned at the start of the thread but why this area then if you have never been there or is it the combination of features as described in the 1st post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 Steve, I chose the line and three stations by going to a fellow modellers house and looking at his railway library for locations in the UK. He suggested the Welsh north west coast line. I found the stations of Conwy, Penmaenmawr and Bangor. As I emphasised in the first post both Conwy and Penmaenmawr have some amazing scenic highlights with the 12th century castle and the mountain involved with each of them. Bangor as the largest goods area on the line provides an opportunity for freight yard use. The scenic highlights of each therefore add to the whole. Secondly the line with the terminal at Holyhead and the major Port for shipping to Ireland provides options for diverse freight. In addition the line in a summer season in 1960 had 108 passenger movements, 54 goods trains and 8 parcel rakes. This is about right for me to replicate 24 hours of operation with all rakes being run. I have all of the coaches (approx 220 required) and most of the goods wagons etc. In summary the line seems just right in terms of rail traffic and scenery. Sarah and I were due to have at least 2 weeks in the area in Sep of this year, but those plans are on long hold while COVID ravages different parts of the world. Thanks for the question Steve and I hope I have adequately covered your question. Regards, Anthony Ashley 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) Dear All, Ross came over this evening and we experimented with the ground cover under the Rail viaduct arches. We used option 3 as discussed above. The pieces of foam were first hot glued together and then I made up a sandy colour mixture of plaster using the builders concrete pigments I have stored away. The results are below. The plaster is still damp in most of the picture but you can see the dried colour on the right front of the section. It is quite a good match for the sand in the area if I can believe the colours in the photos. This was purely experimental but I think is a great effect and will proceed to replicate this approach tomorrow with another 12 areas for coverage. My main concern was getting the foam section back between the piers without damaging either the viaduct or the section. It fitted in really well so no issue. When I poured the plaster I used two foam off cuts to create 2 walls either side of the section. I used heavy books to jam them up and ensure no leakage out the side. The lighter colour is evident in the plaster and all the plaster will dry this lighter colour. I shall rephotograph tomorrow when dry. So far success!! Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited July 6, 2020 by Anthony Ashley 9 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pirouets Posted July 6, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2020 4 hours ago, Anthony Ashley said: I hope I have adequately covered your question. You have indeed and glad to see you have someone to turn to and go "You owe me a beer" when insanity (or should that be sanity) hits. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 Dear All, Progress on The area behind the rail viaduct. Only one section of plasticard to add but most of it is done. Need to work on the area under the arches. I tried to get this photo horizontal but failed!! Regards, Anthony Ashley 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 Dear All, I have nearly finished the area behind the rail viaduct. Photos are below. View from level with the rail viaduct. View from level with the road viaduct Area Behind the rail viaduct. Still need to add a stairway , finish the far wall and add the track at the bottom of the road viaduct. View through the rail viaduct arches Next I shall do some more paper mache at the end of Penaenmawr to finish the mountain around the corner of the layout from the mountain. Once this has been painted I shall do the track work through to Bangor. Regards, Anthony Ashley 13 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted July 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2020 Outstanding Anthony. Just outstanding! What make it even more outstanding is the fact that you're 12,000+ miles away from your chosen prototype. Regards Lez. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 (edited) Lezz, I think the internet is a really powerful tool for accurate modelling from afar. In addition the photos provided by Jamie were very very helpful in getting the correct detail. I hope he is OK as we have not heard from him in some time. Lezz your comments are greatly appreciated as I think I have captured the essence of the scenic area with the help form all of you who have contributed.. I have moved around to the Penmaenmawr side of the layout and done the missing chicken mesh and paper mach. Pictures are below. I have realised that the plan for the west end of Penmenmawr in terms of the included buildings will not work. The mountain has intruded too far around the corner to fit in the housing and buildings planned. I shall have to cut off Penmaenmawr some what shorter than it really is. I will show the section of my original plan and how I have modified it in this altered section. I suppose flexibility is a requirement in model train layouts despite the planning I conducted prior to starting. Original Penmaenmawr plan. Altered Penmaenmawr plan taking into account the mountain which has intruded with too much height into the Penmaenmawr side of the layout. Next I shall do 3 coats of paint on the new paper mache and then start laying the track from Penmaenmawr to Bangor. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited July 31, 2020 by Anthony Ashley 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted July 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Anthony Ashley said: start laying the track from Penmaenmawr to Bangor. Excellent! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simontaylor484 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Some outstanding modelling here well done 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 John and Simon, Thanks for the comments. I have delayed the track work in favour of completing the existing mountain area with rock scree and plaster work, as I am making a mess of the track area immediately underneath. Once this is done it is on with the track work. I have attempted to create a rocky area in the gully on the Penmaenmawr side of the mountain, particularly covering the raised section inside the gully area. Photos are below. Thanks to Ross for critiquing the work and adding a couple of suggestions!! I found it difficult to get a shot that allowed for proper definition of the plaster area and the ridges involved. This area of htt mountain does not accurately correspond to the real thing but the limitations of the modelling area lended itself to a little creative licence by crating a more interesting mountain landscape. The next job is to add the rock scree and then paint using water colours the plaster rock. I shall then do the promised track work. Of course the whole mountain needs the roads to be plastered and walls added with significant small areas of vegetation among most of the rock faces. Regards, Anthony Ashley 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Ashley Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) Dear All, I have completed the top of the mountain apart from a little more vegetation around most of it. The track has been laid with droppers from the Pemmaenmawr end of the layout to the point work hidden in the second avalanche shelter just before the rail viaduct. This section still needs the wiring from the droppers to the bus lines, including the plastic connection strips. Photos of progress are below. The brown areas are dirt in which I shall add some vegetation, although most is just rock and scree. This photos shows the mountain top and recently laid track with the City of Coventry on the track. I need to finish the track laying to the Bangor section and finsh the wiring process. This should be a relatively quick job, although I need to get the wires in one section through 8 mls of ply, 100 ml foam and another 8 ml ply at the bottom. I shall probably cut a large circular hole in the bottom layer of ply from the bottom. As an aside does anyone know where I should go to get the floor plan of the Gran Hotel in Penaenmawr? This would alleviate the need for more photos of the hotel, which seem to be hard to come by. Regards, Anthony Ashley Edited August 9, 2020 by Anthony Ashley 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted August 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2020 Very nicely done Anthony. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Local council for the hotel layout? The planning office? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpgibbons Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) The 1:2500 (25ins/mile) Ordnance Survey maps available at NLOS here are large scale enough to provide building ground dimensions. The largest scale they have available for Penmaenmawr is only 6ins/mile (below) but that may be good enough (attached) - the dimension in blue is 79m. If it isn't, you could take out a 1 month subscription for GBP10 at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/ and screenshot their 1:2500 maps for the entire area that you are modelling. I hear us SEQ locals might be getting a visit to your layout soon - I look forward to it! Edited August 9, 2020 by dpgibbons 1 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now