North Welsh Coast Railway - Welsh Dragon Rail

[Northroader]

Here’s an old print of how it looked in 1850

[Anthony Ashley]

Thanks for the above comments.  The picture above is fantastic. Interesting how the landscape has changed over the years. 

 

I have been working on the scenic section at Bangor where the road enters a tunnel under the track. I have had to do a lot of cutting of the support areas to insert the lower scenic sections. I have not used a plane in many years but i had to do so today. Relatively hard work but gave the outcome I was after.

 

The picture below shows cut track board, matching the cliff and road edge I need to follow for the lower scenery.  The cuts on the left will be a vacant area with a couple of buildings including a grave stone manufacture (it has been there for over 60 years and the cinema that was torn down a number of years ago. The boards below had to be planed to raise the level back to the frame level.  The board on the right has been sawed to lower the level for the road and footpath. Flying Scotsman gives an indication of scale.

 

 

Photo showing clearance next to the road section. This is the lowest area. I shall have to make this section lift out to clear and for servicing.

 

 

 

Wide view of the work done. Board on the left has been planed as well. Board on the right has also had to be removed and cut down to lower it for the town area.

 

 

Area has been vacuumed and cleaned up.

 

 

The last section of the scenic track support has been cut and in place, although it still needs support. 

 

 

Next job is to cut the town area ply board which needs to be removable. Given the complex nature of the shape this will be challenging.

 

All comments are welcome

 

REgards,

 

Anthony

 

 

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE

 

Slow but steady progress with the other side of the Bangor road being worked on. I butchered a few more of the support pieces to lower the housing and road area outside of the goods yard and main line area.

 

Photos are below. Next is to cut the supporting 4 ml ply for these scenic areas.The major problem encountered was ready access to the hidden track which will be covered by this scenic area. No option but to make the scenic areas here removable to facilitate hidden track access.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 25 MAR 18

 

Dear All,

 

Cut one of the Bangor scenic boards the Bangor and very happy with outcome, except I forgot to leave an area uncut for the road. Will need to attach another length of ply. Photos are below of the process. Exact measurement was a key to an accurate board given the complexity of the shape.

 

Tools required to mark and prepare the scenic board by matching the track board. Some overlap will be required to provide the support required.

 

 

Marked board ready for cutting.

 

Tools to facilitate the cutting process

 

Cut board in position. Note the chocks either side of the road. Given the dip in the middle of the board these chocks are required to drop the board down

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 28 MAR 18

 

Deat All,

 

I have finally managed to achieve something more constructive than I have in the last 3 years. I have manged to complete the road section under the Bangor track area. While this may seem to be relatively easy the design to facilitate the area to be removable because of the hidden track underneath added considerably to the complexity. The scenic sections either side can be fixed and do not need to be removable. Photos are below.

 

Scenic board with road attached in position wedged under the track board. I shall need to add resin or plasticard surfaces in terms of stone or brick work

 A continuation of the road is drawn onto the scenic board and the circular drawing is an area going from track height down to a low waist high wall with a foot path next to it.

 

Next photo shows the relative positions of the road and walled shaped area cut into the board supporting the track at track height. I had to slightly move the walled area to avoid a large cross support. 

 

 

 

Track support board has been removed to show the design of the road disappearing under the road. I have used 8 ml ply either side of the walls to provide more stability .

 

 

 

Looking at the area to the left is a car park and a number of buildings along the left side of the road. Behind this car park and buildings is a cliff face and then hill. I have added a cross member to support the cliff running parallel with the platform track. 

 

Everything is flush and matches the other sections so I am very happy with the result. Next job is to draw in the scenery on the new scenic board using Google Earth as a guide. Once thii is done I shall sort out the other side of the bridge in Bangor and the lower scenic section. 

 

All comments are welcome.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony   

 

 

[scottystitch]

Well done, Anthony. Always satisfying to see something tangible after what looks like was no small amount of effort.

 

Will you clad the walls, etc. with scenic niceties now, or wait until later?

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 30 MAR 18

 

Scotty thanks for the comment. I will not be cladding the area until I have finished the other side where the road goes through and under the track. I have at least cut down the supports so merely need to build the same sought of structure i have done on the near side. I think this will be my next task. Once I have the base and wood work completed I think I shall attempt to do the mountains at the bottom of Bangor to practice the plaster techniques I need for the Penmaenmawr mountain. 

 

I have worked out some of the roads and the location of one of the station buildings, by drawing them onto the board.

 

Regards,

 

  Anthony 

[St Enodoc]

UPDATE 30 MAR 18

 

Scotty thanks for the comment. I will not be cladding the area until I have finished the other side where the road goes through and under the track. I have at least cut down the supports so merely need to build the same sought of structure i have done on the near side. I think this will be my next task. Once I have the base and wood work completed I think I shall attempt to do the mountains at the bottom of Bangor to practice the plaster techniques I need for the Penmaenmawr mountain. 

 

I have worked out some of the roads and the location of one of the station buildings, by drawing them onto the board.

 

Regards,

 

  Anthony 

Have you got all the trains running properly Anthony, before your cover the tracks with scenery?

[Anthony Ashley]

John,

 

Thanks for the question. I do plan on doing some scenic work before finalising all of the track work, but only where it is well removed for any track area. For instance the hills at the bottom of Bangor will be my next focus to practice doing plaster work, but they are far enough removed from the track as not to interfere.  I have only wired some of the scenic track area, from Conwy station, including the goods area, around to the interchange with the hidden track above Bangor. All of the hidden track laid to date has been wired as well. In terms of the hidden track I only have about 10 feet of dual track to go and the two 34 track storage/fiddle yards. There is a lot more wiring to be completed of the scenic area.

 

Plans of the scenic section which has been wired is below. Wiring goes from the Conwy station on the top left corner to the interchange between the hidden and scenic track on the lower right corner.

 

 

 

Overall Plan

 

 

 

I doing the scenic work I realised I had made an error in the Bangor track plan.  The red arrow in the plan below shows the issue. The yellow head shunt tack behind the arrow was connected onto the green  track to its left using a left point. This is wrong as it does not connect but is a shunting storage area. To fix I just need to cut back the cork for a point and convert that cork to flex track. Will need to substitute a left for a right point.  

 

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[scottystitch]

Anthony, when you post the overall track plan again, after so long having seen it, it just emphasises how astonishing the layout is going to be.

 

I particularly like your comment ".....only have about 10 feet of dual track to go and the two 34 track storage/fiddle yards......"

 

For certain, when you get trains running, it's going to be spectacular. Can we all descend on you for the opening ceremony?!   

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 31 MAR 18

 

Scotty,

 

I have  a great spare room with ensuite overlooking a lake and everyone is welcome for my "grand opening", the only issue is that Australia is quite a long way to come for a night or so!!!

 

 

I removed the cork which was wrong and cut new to fit. Picture below shows the problem area in the lower left corner of the track area. The lower track should be a head shu t rather than joining back to the track work by a point.

 

 

 

The next photo shows a right point, a left inserted and another left removed.

 

 

 

 

I have started work on the other side of the road at Bangor. I needed to slightly extend the track support board in a couple of places and cut it back in others to adjust heights.

 

I need to determine which boards need to be removable for hidden track access in this area and those that can be permanently fixed. I am minimising the removable boards as they are more difficult to secure. 

 

Regards,

 

  Anthony Ashley

 

 

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 1 APR 18

 

Dear All,

 

I have cut and fitted the board for the other side of the bridge. It was complicated and difficult to cut with an "island" needing to be cut out of the middle of the board and a very irregular shape. The road is cut to extend under the track support board and joins perfectly with the road form the other side.  Work is below.

 

 

 

I know need to work out how i will fit in a removable board to cover the hidden track in the above picture to the right of the new scenic board. 

 

 

The dark single line on the scenic divider shows the height of the mountain I shall build up to that divider. The line on the new scenic board  in between the set square and ruler is the line from which I shall create the elevation change up to the scenic divider. The elevation change is not constant but starts fairly gradual and increases in slope. One idea was to create the gradual slope up to about 100 ml from the tracks as a permanent board and then increase the slope using a removable board over the track area. Once I get 100 mls past the hidden track then start with another permanently placed scenic structure. I am after ideas here. I do not wand a removable board against the scenic divider so need a permanent solid base to rest the scenery on.

 

Does anyone have any ideas as to how best incorporate a removable scenic area over the hidden track, while maintaining structure stability for that element of scenery?

 

 

All ideas will be gratefully accepted and considered. Thanks for the interest.

 

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

 

 

[Stubby47]

Hi Anthony,

Two possible choices might be:

 

1. Build a solid box out of stout plywood, such as would be used for moving musical equipment. Then cut out the necessary slot in the base to fit the track through. The open top can be angled as required to match the scenic contours each side.

 

2. Don't have a removable section, but make the top scenery out of a 'blanket' of material heavy enough to sit across formers, but able to be lifted and peeled back to allow access to the track.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Stu

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 3 APR 18

 

Stu,

 

Thanks for the 2 suggestions I appreciate your reply. I had a friend over ans we came up with a third option using foam. Pictures of the planned technique are below.

 

Plan is to use the foam board shown as a structural support. From this I will  attach foam ribs. I am unsure what I will use over this frame work at this stage, But maybe woven cardboard.  The hill will go along the edge of the track board to overlap on the scenic board by about 15 ml on the side of Bagor shown in the picture  

 

 

 

 

I had to nearly complete the Bangor track placement to work out exactly where the cutting with the track work would need to be placed. I have done this now and should be able to draw in the eastern Bangor cutting tomorrow. The platform areas shown in the pictures are about 2.7 metres long. There is a second corridor on the left of the 2 of the track work to give a sense of scale. 

 

 

 

I should be able to get on with the hill tomorrow, cutting the ribs and covering the surface of the hill. I hope the foam will make the removable area sufficiently strong.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 6 APR 18

 

Dear All,

 

I have focused on one side of the Bangor bridge scenic area, as once I secure the next Bangor track board this are will not be accessible. The area which I have sceniced will slide under the bridge Photos are enclosed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I need to paint the rest of this board, secure it, and then I can work on the hill at the bottom of Bangor.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

 

 

[scottystitch]

Anthony,

 

The walling and roadway looks great, and will settle in nicely under the board. The only comment I might make is that the white line perhaps looks a bit thick (i.e. wide) to my eye?

[Anthony Ashley]

UPDATE 10 APR 18

 

Scotty,

 

Thanks for the comment. I shall shrink the road lines in future. The first road was an experiment but overall I am happy with the result as it was my first real road!!

 

I have been working on the removable  hill/mountain at the bottom of Bangor. I decided to use a foam frame which I can remove, overlaid with chicken wire and plaster. It is an experiment so I shall see how successful ti is. 

 

Photos are below.

 

 

 

 

 

[Simond]

Anthony

 

my view, not backed up by experience, is that the plaster/chicken wire solution will be heavy and fragile - and if you make it thinner & lighter, it will be more fragile, and if you make it stronger, it'll be too heavy to lift.

 

There's a lot to be said for a foam structure with a thin scenic skin of plaster, or better still, something plasticised

 

best

Simon

[scottystitch]

Hi Anthony

 

I would agree with Simon. The wire and plaster might be a bit brittle if anything were to happen to it.

 

I think the foam formers are a good idea, but I think if it were I, I'd probably go for the plaster impregnated cloth type product for the actual shell, but this would require some extra bracing of the formers, or more of them, perhaps.

 

I suppose it depends on how often you envisage having to lift it up...?

Edited April 10, 2018 by scottystitch

[Anthony Ashley]

Simon and Scotty,

 

I wanted to use the wire to practice before I tackle the Penmaenmawr mountain. I could restrict the use of wire to the non removable side of the Bangor area. One idea for the removable side at Bangor was a cardboard lattice over the top of the foam support. I am not sure that this would weigh a lot less then the wire though. Would the material dipped in plaster weigh much more than the plaster bandage? What do people think. So the option supported by both of you I think is the cardboard/plaster bandage option. 

 

I have had to have a break from the shed. We have had a lot of rain in Brisbane and it has created a plague of tiny midges. almost too small to see. These have attacked me and I have been suffering from the bites for the last 2 weeks. I need to recover from the current bites before venturing back to the she. The bites are so bad I am having trouble sleeping!!!

 

Regards,

 

Anthony 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Anthony Ashley

[Simond]

Ah midgies, the bane of the Scottish summer...  well-travelled little blighters apparently!

 

It's the plaster that's heavy.  A quick google suggests around 8kg per square metre at 1 cm thickness.

 

I tend to use papier mache, which is cheap (old newspaper over card formers, over triwall corrugated cardboard frames - pretty much all from the recycling bin) and very tough, and I'm sure lighter and less brittle than plaster - though I have never attempted a mountain (in any scale!) so it's just an opinion.  I use pva but i'm only doing small bits - you could use wallpaper paste.  messy, but fun.  Chicken wire formers would work too.

 

best

Simon

[scottystitch]

Ah midgies, the bane of the Scottish summer...  well-travelled little blighters apparently!

 

It's the plaster that's heavy.  A quick google suggests around 8kg per square metre at 1 cm thickness.

 

I tend to use papier mache, which is cheap (old newspaper over card formers, over triwall corrugated cardboard frames - pretty much all from the recycling bin) and very tough, and I'm sure lighter and less brittle than plaster - though I have never attempted a mountain (in any scale!) so it's just an opinion.  I use pva but i'm only doing small bits - you could use wallpaper paste.  messy, but fun.  Chicken wire formers would work too.

 

best

Simon

 

Agreed, it's the plaster that's the concern due to the amount you'd need to make the shell tough enough to support its own mass and bind to the chicken wire etc.

 

Paper mache is a good shout, no messier than plaster bandage. I just find plaster bandage convenient, albeit at a cost admittedly. Neither of these should prove to be particularly brittle and will be much lighter, for the same overall effect.

[Anthony Ashley]

Simon and Scotty,

 

The info from Simon that the plaster should be up to 1cm thick was not my intention. I expect that the method of plastering used on the Siebwalde layout using material dipped in plaster would only require a couple of layers of material with minimal plaster. I expect this would be in the order of 4 mls and provide a similar outcome to using plaster cloth. There is a air amount of structural support in the foam which is very light but quite strong. Any comments on this idea form Simon, Scotty or anyone else would be greatly appreciated. . I would clearly need to trial it to see how it would work. 

 

I have now had to take stereoid tablets to lessen the effect of the alergic reaction to the midge bites. No work in the shed till I am over the bites, as I can not afford to get any more.

 

Regards,

 

Anthony

[scottystitch]

Anthony,

 

You have my sympathies regards the midges. We have plenty here in Scotland, particularly voracious on the west coast.

 

Apologies, with regards the plaster issue, I misunderstood. I thought you meant coating the chicken wire with plaster directly. The method you describe from Siebwalde I think would work handsomely. I shall look forward to seeing your results when you are well enough to return.

 

You are quite right to keep away in the meantime.

 

Best

 

Scotty

[Simond]

Hi

 

I wasn’t meaning to suggest that it should be 10mm thick, just that if it were, that’s what it would weigh

 

Cloth in plaster will surely work, but I’d still be concerned about it cracking

 

Best

Simon