How would a later-built branch line cross an exisiting main line?

[dseagull]

I'm sure the answer is blindingly obvious, and I probably already know if I think about it, but I've been racking my brain for a while and can't seem to find it.

 

I am currently working through the (very) early stages of planning a future layout and am looking into the rationale for existence. One issue is that this would have been a line built at a later date to a secondary main line which would be in the direct path of the route. 

 

Below is a quick paint drawing of what I mean;

 

 

Would it have crossed the main via a bridge, or would there be a possibility of 'in and out' working into the mainline station (perhaps going into a bay on one side of the station, then crossing over the main line to resume the course as per the quick plan above?

 

Ta. 

 

[EddieB]

Assuming for a moment that both lines were built pre-Grouping, the configuration would depend on whether they were built by the same company or, if different companies, how well they got on.  If the existing company refused running powers to the newcomer, then a bridge and a separate station would be the most common arrangement.

[Miss Prism]

Subject to EddieB's important point, probably the most common arrangement of a through later line in a shared station arrangement would be double junctions east and west, augmented if necessary with additional platforms, depending on traffic.

[Suzie]

There is a prototype, the Maldon to Braintree line was planned to just cross the Great Eastern main line on the level at Witham. The idea of the line was to get farm produce from Braintree to the port of Maldon. I am not sure that the flat crossing was ever built but in modern times the line was operated in two halves terminating in bays at Witham. It is a case of a line being built but ultimately the traffic flow was very different to what was envisaged making for more interesting working.

 

The 1897 map in the Middleton Press book Shenfield to Ipswich shows a junction allowing the trains to cross from the Maldon line to the Braintree bay where I guess there might have been some reversing when running through services.

 

Is there not a flat crossing somewhere in the East Midlands on the East Coast main line though?

[Ozexpatriate]

Examples are legion on the S&DJR:
 
Crossings at the same level:

Highbridge: GWR main, SDJR Burnham-on-Sea Branch (diagram here)
 
Crossing at different grade:

Templecombe: SR main, S&DJR main below. (diagram here)

Both (sort of)

Radstock: GWR branch, S&DJR main aerial view

A non-S&DJR example of a two-level station is East Grinstead (upper and lower).

[Richard E]

There are plans to remove the flat crossing at Newark, I'll believe it when it happens. That isn't at a station however but just north of Newark Northgate and east of Newark Castle.

[roundhouse]

Retford used to have a flat crossing but now the Sheffield to Lincoln line passes underneath the ECML.

[Pete 75C]

The lines around Dorking in Surrey are similar to what you have in mind. The North Downs line serving Dorking Deepdene station crosses the Epsom-Horsham line serving Dorking (town). Unsure as to what came first (I'll need to Google it) and I believe there was originally a spur linking the two. They're now completely severed though, with no connection. Pete.

[Alex.]

This might help, East Grinstead was similar to what you're after.

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/e/east_grinstead/index.shtml

[PhilJ W]

IIRC the GC crossed the Midland at Leicester on a bridge crossing the throat of the Midland station.

[Edwin_m]

The GC crossed the Midland at the throat of Loughborough station and over the platforms at Nottingham but not at Leicester.  They would have been unlikely to want a crossing on the level as the main line was built to be operated efficiently and probably neither party would want to share infrastructure with an arch-rival. 

[dseagull]

Many thanks all, much appreciated.

 

I now have a couple of ideas which would seem prototypical, and can crack on with typing up a 'potted history' of the route.

[Armchair Modeller]

Crossing on the level was more a feature of very early railways. Later ones tended to cross at different levels, on the whole, for safety and to prevent unnecessary interruption of traffic, not to mention the extra cost of signalling and maintenance.

 

Dukeries Junction was an example of a later one, where a completely new two-level station was built in the middle of nowhere, where the 2 railways intersected.

 

http://www.oldtuxford.com/ry/ry.asp?NextPhoto=ry02 or http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;DCHQ500140&pos=2&action=zoom

 

At Evesham, on the other hand, the Midland line rose over the GWR then dropped and turned parallel with the GWR for a short distance, with their own station, before turning away again to the south.

 

Topography might make a difference too. Even in relatively flat areas, it is quite possible that one line might be at a higher elevation than the other.

[dseagull]

I should add that I won't actually be be building the 'Junction' station - but just wanted to 'get it right in my head. Current thought, having read your collective kind advice is the 'two station approach' with the 'main' being bridged, and a second station a little further down (Actually in the village it purports to serve rather than a mile and a half away). As the former was actually built in reality at the behest of a (very interesting sounding, if disreputable!) character to give him easy access to London from his estate, this seems plausible enough to me. 

[EddieB]

As Armchair notes, flat crossings became rare in this country (not so much in the USA), and also required full co-operation between the owners of the intersecting lines.

 

A prototypical, and London-based, example of the "two station approach" can be seen in Walthamstow.  The Midland and Great Eastern never enjoyed a happy co-existence, so when the Midland wanted to build their Barking-Kentish Town route, they crossed under the Great Eastern Railway's Chingford branch between the latter's Hoe Street (now Walthamstow Central) and St. James Street stations (where, conveniently, the line was raised on an embankment) and opened new stations of their own at Queens Road (originally just "Walthamstow") and Blackhorse Road.

 

Thinking more widely, and again to avoid flat crossings, another possible configuration would be the shared use of a station with the secondary line running into a bay or loop from one direction, then passing under or over the main line in the other.  I'm trying to think of examples.

 

BTW, having checked your profile, congratulations on your newest addition!

[Jim Martin]

 

Thinking more widely, and again to avoid flat crossings, another possible configuration would be the shared use of a station with the secondary line running into a bay or loop from one direction, then passing under or over the main line in the other. I'm trying to think of examples.

 

Something fairly like this happened at Aintree, where the Cheshire Lines route from Halewood to Southport crossed the L&Y Liverpool-Preston line. The two companies had separate stations, but they were more or less adjacent.

 

Jim

[Clive Mortimore]

An example of a later line crossing an earlier line is at Fordham in Cambridgeshire. The GER Ely-Newmarket Branch was crossed by the Cambridge-Mildenhall Branch, there were junctions each end of the station. See Old maps http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html corodinates 561936 and 269708, 1926 1in 2500 map.

[roythebus]

The GCR crossed the LNWR at Rugby on a huge girder bridge; the Oxford-Cambridge line crossed the LNWR at Bletchley, later using a flyover built just about the time of Beeching and the line was closed not many years later; the Guildford-Tonbridge line crosses the Brighton line on the flat but trains have to reverse and cross all running lines too.