Model Buses

[Bartb]

As the London Transport Museum are about to restore a B type London bus for the 100th anniversary of the First World War, will any of the Model bus manufacturers produce a model B Type for next year?  I hope so as this could be a popular model, especialy if they produce it in London General livery and army liveries. There seems a lack of older model buses, so perhaps this might start more interest in producing older buses. We will see....

 

John

[Xerces Fobe2]

There is a good range of buses post 1935ish  however most people are only interested in buses they can remember as a child etc.  I think the mass production of early types of buses is unlikely, however there might be a niche market in the 3D printing arena though?

 

XF

[Bartb]

I partly agree FX. most of my buses are from places i've lived or from my childhood. I have some buses I never saw, or traveled on. I just thought that a B type bus would be a good seller as it is the 100th anniversary of the war next year.

John

[Xerces Fobe2]

I partly agree FX. most of my buses are from places i've lived or from my childhood. I have some buses I never saw, or traveled on. I just thought that a B type bus would be a good seller as it is the 100th anniversary of the war next year.

John

 

I see where you are coming from John it is just a case of is it commercially viable to produce a B type bus?

 

XF

[Oldddudders]

I think Yesteryear produced a B-type, or similarly elderly-looking vehicle, many decades ago. I infer from things I've read that the model bus industry isn't as healthy as it once was, and certainly almost everything I see seems to be post-war, or maybe late '30s at the earliest. No doubt EFE et al think they know where the remaining interest lies.

[SRman]

The only OO scale (or nearly so) models of B types were both kits.

 

The long gone Varney Transport Replicas range had a white metal B type kit. These occasionally crop up on eBay or at swap meets. I believe they ended up in the ABS Streetscene range but I'm not sure if they made it back into production.

 

The other kit was in plastic and came from the 'cheap and cheerful' Kielkraft range. It was to 1/72 scale and needed some additional work to bring it up to scratch but it was very inexpensive and the plastic is easy to work with.

 

Both kits also had transfers included.

 

The pic shows two Kielkraft products, both with some modifications. The B type has cocktail sticks for dummy axles but really needs the life guards improved, some lamps and a crew.

 

[Bartb]

 

I infer from things I've read that the model bus industry isn't as healthy as it once was, and certainly almost everything I see seems to be post-war, or maybe late '30s at the earliest. No doubt EFE et al think they know where the remaining interest lies. 

Oldddudders

There does seem to bee a lot of modern buses being issued of late, it would be interesting to find out why. I haven't purchased a model bus for quite a while, because there has not been anything that interests me or I collect.

It would be good to see some trams and Trolly buses being issued.

 

John

[RThompson]

Its probably in relation to the modern buses being preserved of lately which has even included a couple of low floors as the more modern buses are gaining more interest and also step entrance single deck buses on normal bus routes will come to a end in 2015.

 

Regards Robert, proudly exhibiting his dennis dart next weekend!

[mikeharvey22]

There does seem to bee a lot of modern buses being issued of late, it would be interesting to find out why. I haven't purchased a model bus for quite a while, because there has not been anything that interests me or I collect.

It would be good to see some trams and Trolly buses being issued.

 

John

 

There are a couple of Corgi ones this month. The main source of modern buses was the CMNL range which is now coming back on stream with a couple of Stagecoach hybrids after financial restructuring of the operation. See the News pages for April and May here:-

 

http://www.britishmodelbuses.com/

 

 

Mike

[Gwiwer]

There are many "modern" buses being issued compared with the number of really old models.  The same is true of model trains.

 

Many model trains are of BR standard steam or of diesel or electric types which spans the past 60 or so years.  Of those perhaps more than half relate to the past 30 years.  The life of a bus is typically a little shorter than that of a train but when we consider that, for example, the "modern" Leyland National first took to the streets in 1971 or the Daimler Fleetline and Leyland Atlantean in the late 1950s then we see a little more of the bigger picture.  While very few of the early Fleetlines or Atlanteans remain in daily use they could be compared with BR Mk1 coaching stock which also dates from the mid 1950s and with a few vehicles still in occasional use.  Leyland Nationals would compare with Mk2 coaching stock which is often thought of as "too modern" for our layouts.

 

If we want to go back closer to 100 years ago then there are proportionally fewer of both railway and bus models.   Many people choose to model what they can remember from youth.  Many of us remember later steam but fewer and fewer can recall the pre-nationlisation era.  While pre-war styles of bus such as the London RT (albeit most were built after the war) are fondly remembered they also remained in service until 1979 meaning a lot of us have seen and travelled on them.  I doubt very many people alive today have travelled on a B-type except in preservation.  I doubt also whether more than a mere handful of the multiplicity of locomotive types which ran around the turn of the 19th/20th Centuries would have a strong enough following to become a commercially viable model.  So also with the B-type.

 

The best-known London types and significant regional and provincial buses seem to be viable but try getting a model of a London FS (Ford - Strachans) "bread van" or MW (Mercedes - Wright) midibus to pick just two of the recent types not in the catalogues.  A Bulleid light Pacific, sir?  Certainly!  But an Adams "Radial" has yet to appear and until Kernow MRC took a substantial commercial risk we were crying out for Beattie well tanks.  Both ran alongside the Bulleids and both originated many years earlier.  Just as B-types ran alongside later buses towards the end of their days some of which we can obtain models of but not the B-type.

[runs as required]

This seems the best thread to revive by posting about what has been interesting me recently about appropriate bus models.

 

Two things sparked this

1

I chanced to overhear a couple of judges going around a recent big show remarking to one another how a huge amount of attention was paid to detail and weathering on layouts but vehicles like buses were simply die-casts plonked on fresh out of boxes – irrespective of era or district.

2

On a parallel thread   here (road-vehicles: which-gaps-need-filling) I put in a request for some of the classic BMMO buses. Though it was pointed out that die-casts will only be launched against assured mass sales, I was grateful for a couple of links to kit producers and I am enjoying assembling a white metal classic old Midland Red FEDD..

 

So I got to some experimenting looking out b&w images with web searches then using Photoshop to ‘manipulate these; I was able to generate full colour orthogonal plans/sections/elevations quite easily (a couple of characterful old Stockport stalwarts are shewn in the post below). I printed these out to 1:76 on gloss paper then spray mounted them onto card.

 

I’ve progressed from there using techniques remembered from my childhood (anyone else remember building ‘Micromodels’ and models from ‘Lineside’ plans advertised in Meccano Magazine?). Within the hour one can ‘mock up’ a glued together card model to judge proportion and rightness in 3D.

 

I’d like to go further into scratch models with glazing and proper roof profiles but my old Lineside methods produce fairly clunky detail. In particular mudguards with their double curvature are the most difficult – I was wondering whether soft pewter might be easy to persuade into a wing form using a small buck.

 

I have located some useful components here but any further help would be very much appreciated.

I am also wondering whether advancing into CAD/CAM 3D printing etc. for bespoke rather than multiple production items such as body sides (and mudguards) would be practicable in cost terms.

 

Thanks in advance

dhig

[runs as required]

Here are the two oldies - you are welcome to try them

I'm such a novice at posting pics on RM web they ought to be 30mm wide overall at 1:76 - they were when they left my computer

 

{edit on 26/9/14     1:76 Bristol L ECW updated to wrapper style body print: see my post #25 below]

[Andy Reichert]

 

This has a certain personal appeal.

 

Andy

[mikeharvey22]

Mark Hughes has some useful components http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/tmb/kits/mark_hughes.htm and the Model Bus Federation shop stocks a lot of parts for members. http://www.model-bus-federation.org.uk/

Worth having a look here too. http://paragonkits.com/

Many of the kit manufacturers here also have spares such as radiators, windscreens, headlamp assemblies. Look in the model kit section for inspiration. http://www.modelbuszone.co.uk/
 
Mike

[stewartingram]

Model Bus Zone lists plenty of parts. This page on their website (which also gives links to the rest of the site) lists bus kit manufacturers; click on their links to see parts that are available.

 

Stewart

 

http://modelbuszone.co.uk/efe/operators/loadframes.html

 

edit: for some reason it went back to my "favourites" listing of the site. Go to that, then click on the left "Model Kits" page.

[SRman]

I was a member of the MBF for many years but I couldn't easily buy anything from their shop from here in Australia as they didn't offer any credit card or even Paypal facilities, unfortunately. A pity, because the range of kits and bits and the prices were very good.

 

Purchasing from overseas can also be a problem with many cottage industries, although access to Paypal has improved things considerably.

 

Of all the kit and bit manufacturers, and there have been many good ones, I would have to rate Mark Hughes as the highest quality producer of etched and cast items. For some other kits and bits not directly bus related, I would rate Bernard Taylor (TPM) as producing items equally as good. Both manufacturers have some of the finest detail I have seen in any kit or component.

 

I have no connection to either manufacturer except as a purchaser and user of their products - some direct dealings with Bernard but only indirectly with Mark Hughes.

[Jon Fitness]

Here's a link to The Little Bus Company. Excellent kits and bits..

 

You could also try Adrian Swain (ABS Models) if you can get hold of him. He produced (produces?) a large range of kits and bits too in 4mm scale.
Jon F.

[SRman]

I like Little Bus Company kits for their simplicity. I do have a small connection with LBC as I count Tony as a friend. The kits themselves sometimes have small compromises to allow for the ease of construction and to minimise the number of separate bits.

I also have built quite a few ABS kits and have a good many of their spare parts, wheels and radiators, but trying to get hold of them nowadays from over here is very close to impossible.

Just to show off now, here is my Little Bus Company London L3 trolleybus.






And while I'm showing off, here's a Mark Hughes kit, done for the MBF, of the all-Leyland Royal Tiger coach. My build quality doesn't do the kit justice. Check out the crispness of the wheel castings.

 

 

 

Going back to weathering buses, my wife bought me some weathering powders when we were at an exhibition a good many years ago. I used the mud tones on a Pirate Models Bristol VRT3 that I was building and finishing at the time. I only weathered the lower skirts and wheels, but when I proudly showed her the result, she got quite upset and insisted that she would never have bought the powders for me if she had realised that that was what they were for!!! The VR3 is the one at the back; the bus in the foreground was an EFE one that I modified with a Pirate Models flat front.

[Gwiwer]

I weathered a few buses, most successfully perhaps the Base Bristol LD types.  The reception they got online and in the flesh was uninspiring to say the least.  I do have a few more weathered examples and am considering how feasible it might be to also represent panel damage.  The majority of my modest collection does not normally appear on the layout and will remain unweathered.

[HillsideDepot]

Generally speaking buses are washed every day, so except when the roads are covered in rock salt in winter buses are usually quite clean. 

 

However, there may be signs of diesel spillage below and to the rear of the fuel filler, and wheels will generally be dirty (although conversely wheels may be repainted more frequently than the rest of the bus to keep them smart). Oil leaks are seriously frowned upon by VOSA Inspectors, but a VRT like those above may show signs of oil on the lower part of the engine access door. 

 

The rears of buses can get dirty, anyone remember Leyland Nationals with the original style of exhaust pipe which would lead to filthy rears. Another thing about bus rears is that they are often driven through washing machines too quickly and the brushes miss the middle of the rear. Weathering a model like this might be accurate, but it would probably look very odd. I still wonder if the effect once seen on the rear of a Badgerline series 2 VR was deliberate or not; the brushes had only washed either end of the fleet name clean so that it read "Bad    line" !! 

 

Adverts can be an interesting "weathering" prospect. The modern ones are often mounted in frames and it isn't unusual for a whole section to go missing. Vinyl adverts can lose their adhesive and start flapping around before coming off in random shaped pieces. The older paper based adverts were even more prone to tearing and pealing as they aged. 

 

Gwiwer mentioned replicating panel damage, and that is a good one to do. I've got an EFE VRT somewhere with brown (unpainted fibre-glass) roof vents on one side, and that same bus has a mis-matched area of green paint on the corner of its front dome to simulate a repair to tree damage. Several of my RELLS are the Badgerline liveried EFE model, and the extra Badger-Vectis fleetname needed removing to better represent the majority of the fleet. When the printing came off cleanly that was great, when it damaged the paint beneath on one example an "accident repair" effect was used rather than trying to match EFE's finish and shades.

 

I can think of a local operator who is curently running a bus with unpainted replacement panels (not a good image!), but GoAhead Northern back in my student days of the late '80s had many vehicles running around with odd panels in off white or pink undercoat. Gateshead's Roe bodied Atlantean 3470 (AUP340W) was particularly notable as the panel under the driver's cab was damaged again before they got around to painting it in top coat red!

 

As ever, observation is the key!

[Gwiwer]

Forgot to add the picture to my earlier post    The obvious marker-pen removal of the 5 on the route numbers is not visible to the naked eye.  The route was (and still is) the 17; the 500-prefix was used for some years but too late, I think, for the LD/FS types.  Their matching vehicle on the 22 and EFE's FLF on the 33 correctly do not have the 5.

 

 

I take the point that buses are often (but by no means always) washed daily.  So are many trains.  Dirt still lodges around panel joins and beading.  Fading of the paintwork is harder to replicate than adding grime but sometimes a discreet wipe over with grey might help.

 

Observation and some local knowledge counts for a lot.  When I was with Southdown at the changeover to NBC one vehicle had so many patches on it that we counted at least seven shades of green!  

 

When I joined Western National they had just disposed of their long-serving depot at Wherrytown and moved into a mud-patch at Long Rock with no undercover parking and no bus wash.  After a typically wet Cornish day the entire allocation would be lagged in brown mud.  One part-time hand was employed to fuel and clean buses (which in our case was never the driver's job) and couldn't hand-brush clean 40 vehicles a night.  The result was more accumulated dirt to the point that passengers had no view.  

 

Each bus was supposed to be on a 3-4 day duty cycle at the end of which it would return to Camborne and the nearest mechanical washer.  Those duties were too complex, caused excessive dead mileage and costs and ultimately Penzance relocated again into an industrial unit with hard standing for a washer and some undercover parking for our open toppers.

[runs as required]

Many thanks to those who posted links following my request above.

 

Now an update on my paper buses project. In truth I'm finding what I'd hoped would be a 'quick and dirty' in and out plodge a pretty difficult learning curve.

 

The two pics represent the start with the kitchen scissors, the other where I have got to trying to model a few more parts of the rugged old 'Macc bus' (where wife and I got our early courting days 'teenage kicks').

 

Probs I have encountered are

*

selecting the right weight of card JA 7864 is too thick, the Harrigton 'chara' too thin. Gloss photoquality card works well  on my dot matrix printer (it needs hairspray fixative before I use any acrylics to touch up edges).

*

trying to choose the right glue: Rocket is really far too 'slow' for me, Superglue better at at fusing me to the model, Uhu far too stringy for 4mm detail.

*

modelling the double curvature parts in card

*

wheels are off a Spiderman car, my 7 year old grandson is enjoying designing his own cars then I 3D them and sit on Spiderman's wheels. Cool!

 

dhig

[SRman]

For the few paper/card buses I have assembled, I found that PVA glue spread very thinly worked very quickly and also very strongly.

[SRman]

This is a surviving paper model, a London Transport GS I made from an Alphagraphix paper kit many years ago. I attempted to create the curves and touched up the white edges with green paint, although the model is now showing a few scars from rough handling and accidents.

[runs as required]

An update on my 'instant' 30s and 40s bus modelling with paper prints:

Plan B is a wrapper than eliminates the manky joint between roof and sides; I've attached it with 'spray mount'.

Of course it only works on constant cross section tubular vehicles (not on something like the Harrington bodied 'chara').

I show it on the photos attached below. I have yet to spray fix the dot matrix gloss printed wrapper, touch up the eges and fill the joints somehow.

......but I'm not sure there is going to be a happy ending

 

dhig

 

[edit:    I forgot to say that the wrapper idea began with hoping it could be printed on vinyl, because it would be both thinner and easier to persuade into taking up slightly complex curves such as over the half cab roof.  So far I have been unable to source any that can pass through a dot matrix printer.]