Traction longevity

[winterbournecm]

Was chatting to someone the other day regarding the length of time certain classes have worked in Cornwall paticularly. They remarked that Cornwall had class 25s for many years, but they were surprised to learn that class 66s have actually been in Cornwall for a longer timespan then the class 25s were. The class 25s turned up in 1970 & departed just 10 years later. Class 37s were in Cornwall from 1978 to 2000 (regularly), which is longer than some of the Warships lasted!

 

The Exeter - Waterloo route had regular changes of Traction in the diesel era. Warships were replaced by class 33s 1971 which in turn were replaced by class 50s in 1979, and then gave way to class 47s in 1993 (?) until the end of loco haulage. The humdrum class 159s have put in a remarkable tenure from 1994 (?) as loco replacements - but with little enthuisiast following of course! They have nearly clocked up 20 years on the route which seems staggering when you think about it!

 

Perhaps the photos taken andf railway books tend to cement in our minds that certain locos were regulars - when in fact they may have only worked for short periods (like class 55s on the Trans Pennine route).

 

 

[Gwiwer]

When you consider the following that the D600 and D63xx types also have and their relatively short lives then there must be something about a particular class which cements it in our minds and engenders affection.  It's not as simple as having chunky nameplates (class 22 was never named for example) nor is it confined to hydraulic traction witness the adulation accorded to class 55 and the following even the formerly unloved class 47 achieved in its latter days including the final cross-country run through Cornwall.

 

"Duffs" have been with us since 1962 and still appear quite regularly on the Cornish main line either as traction in their own right or as insurance.  Class 57 which works the "beds" to this day is arguably little more than a re-engineered 47.  Ironically and despite the "Castle" names they have never garnered much support among the enthusiast fraternity nor, it seems, among professional railwaymen.

[Colin_McLeod]

I travelled on HSTs in 1977.

 

Irish Rail 121 class.  December 1960 to 2000.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_121_Class

[DavidB-AU]

Ignoring the Isle of Man, the oldest rollingstock still in revenue service in the UK is probably the class 483 on the Isle of Wight, originally 1938 tube stock. That's 75 years!
 
I believe the oldest loco still in regular service is ScotRail's 08308, which has been in service since 1957. Freightliner's 08077 was built earlier (1955) but was in storage for about 20 years.
 
Cheers
David

[Titan]

Depends if we are taking diesel traction only.  The first Beattie Well tank went to Cornwall in 1893, as far I as can work out and they left Wadebridge in 1962. That's 69 years!

 

I reckon some class 08's will beat that in the next few years - 1950's to present!

[Gwiwer]

Ignoring the Isle of Man, the oldest rollingstock still in revenue service in the UK is probably the class 483 on the Isle of Wight, originally 1938 tube stock. That's 75 years!

 

I believe the oldest loco still in regular service is ScotRail's 08308, which has been in service since 1957. Freightliner's 08077 was built earlier (1955) but was in storage for about 20 years.

 

Cheers

David

 

I beg to differ.

 

Volks Electric Railway on Brighton beach still operates a pair of its 1892 cars and whilst both are currently undergoing maintenance and not in traffic they are part of the operational fleet and are "rolling stock".  Not perhaps on any main line nor on standard gauge but on electrified track which pre-dated most others with that mode of traction.  So far as I can determine those cars pre-date anything still in service on the Isle of Man by at least a year.

 

The Isle of Wight ex-LT tube stock is from the vast 1938-stock builds (delivered over an extended period of time until around 1950) and are positive youths at no more than 75 years young.

 

Whilst being very much rebuilt from the originals it is sobering to consider that we still have a pair of Beattie's well tanks not only with us but operational.  Both 30585 and 30587 date from June 1874 and are thus approaching their 150th birthdays!  Both also operate at times in revenue service upon various heritage lines and with at least one normally a mere whistle's blast away from its long-term home on the Wenford goods out of Wadebridge.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Sarah Siddons springs to mind never actually withdrawn, but transferred to departmental duties and long may she run!

 

XF

[Dunsignalling]

The Exeter - Waterloo route had regular changes of Traction in the diesel era. Warships were replaced by class 33s 1971 which in turn were replaced by class 50s in 1979, and then gave way to class 47s in 1993 (?) until the end of loco haulage. The humdrum class 159s have put in a remarkable tenure from 1994 (?) as loco replacements - but with little enthuisiast following of course! They have nearly clocked up 20 years on the route which seems staggering when you think about it!

It's no surprise that the Class 159s have outlasted all the preceding diesel locomotives that worked on this line.

 

The Warships and Class 50s allocated to the former LSWR main line were generally the 'duds' that the Western Region wanted off their own main line and many of the 47s (especially towards the end) were ones that NOBODY else wanted. My heart used to soar at the sight of a substitute Class 33 because I knew I would get home!

 

When the 159s appeared, they were the first new-build traction to appear since the Bulleid Pacifics (1941-64) and it won't be long before even that illustrious record is exceeded (their mileages were beaten more than a decade ago). The 159s have transformed the service since 1994 as surely as the Bulleids did in their time, a fact borne out by the number of passengers using the line nowadays. If we never get anything worse than a 159 in the future, we'll be doing all right!

 

John

[Colin_McLeod]

RPSI's No 186 is still in revenue earning service. (It features in the Golden Vale railtour this coming weekend)

Built 1879.  Now 134 years old and still going strong.

Photo from RPSI site

 

 

Edit for typo

[Gwiwer]

 

My heart used to soar at the sight of a substitute Class 33 because I knew I would get home!

 

While so often true on the LSWR main line it was the opposite story when I used to reach Salisbury from the Sussex coast on an Area 8 Runabout Rover, usually on the Brighton - Exeter train which was always rostered for a 33.  Very, very occasionally that failed west of Salisbury and a Warship would work the return trip back to Brighton.  We looked forward to such exceptionally rare events and I was lucky enough - by chance - to have been aboard what proved to be the very last Warship-hauled Brighton train which was led by 812 "RNR".  

[Xerces Fobe2]

Beattie Well Tanks had a very long life and more recently the Chiltern Railways Class 121 have been in service for @ 53 years

 

XF

[Katier]

In terms of regular revenue service in non-preserved situations one of the longest must be the J72's.. built by three different railway companies (NER, LNER and BR) in 4 batches and in service from late 1898's to 1964 - Well tanks somehow managed longer, but the 72's built over longer time (53 years) and were much more widespread (even Wrexham had one!!)

 

The nearly identical J71's were very impressive in length of service, 1886 to 1961 - 75 years!!! - and all were build in the 1800's.

[The Stationmaster]

While so often true on the LSWR main line it was the opposite story when I used to reach Salisbury from the Sussex coast on an Area 8 Runabout Rover, usually on the Brighton - Exeter train which was always rostered for a 33.  Very, very occasionally that failed west of Salisbury and a Warship would work the return trip back to Brighton.  We looked forward to such exceptionally rare events and I was lucky enough - by chance - to have been aboard what proved to be the very last Warship-hauled Brighton train which was led by 812 "RNR".  

The problem with the Cromptons (33s) on the Salisbury - Exeter route was that they were drastically underpowered for the loads/timings and the only way they could keep near to time was to turn off the eth on rising gradients - indeed they also had a lot of problems starting away from Tisbury on the Up if the eth wasn't turned off.

 

Referring to an earlier post the Western transferred the 'Warsghips' to the route because they were the only locos spare, simple as that and their poor reliability was nothing new although gradually sorted.  I don't think the Region had any choice at all about the Class 50s which went onto the route as the fleet was being divided in any case (by higher authority at that time) and they had all undergone extensive work to improve reliability after arrival on the Region.

[winterbournecm]

Interesting stuff. The steam locos were long standers for sure. Even in Cornwall only a few years ago class 158s were the "standard" unit class on the main line with long distance journeys like Manchester & Cardiff available. The timetable has morphed back into predominantly Plymouth stoppers with 150/153 combos featuring. 

[Glorious NSE]

If you ignore the couple of bubble cars, filling niches for Chiltern and Arriva, then the oldest commuter fleet in the country (and still working in it's original role 37 years later, despite a myriad of cascades and changes which have happenned around it) is the humble, unsung 313 - not exciting, not pretty, just getting folk to work and back rain or shine...

Built 1976/77, they could conceivably outlast both the HST and 91 fleets on the East Coast, depending on how things go...

 

[Gruffalo]

If you ignore the couple of bubble cars, filling niches for Chiltern and Arriva, then the oldest commuter fleet in the country (and still working in it's original role 37 years later, despite a myriad of cascades and changes which have happenned around it) is the humble, unsung 313 - not exciting, not pretty, just getting folk to work and back rain or shine...

 

Built 1976/77, they could conceivably outlast both the HST and 91 fleets on the East Coast, depending on how things go...

 

The foreshortening effect of the camera in both these photos is quite dramatic, it certainly gives modellers a lot of licence! I particularly like the main line winter scene, where is it?

[Glorious NSE]

The snowy one was shot at Alexandra Palace, on the way to the exhibition in March this year, the rather warmer looking one was shot at Haringay a couple of years back...plenty of telephoto on both shots but I guess it's more obvious on the bottom one.

['CHARD]

Hmmm, happen you could be right there Martyn.  Been doing extensive modelling (not of the RMWeb sort) of fleet cascade recently, and these lowly things do seem to have a few years left with no natural predators!

[Cornish Triang Paul]

The GW 57s are now nearly 10 years on and july this year sees the Mk3 sleepers on the Night Riviera being THIRTY !!

[Pobrien]

Some of the GWR freight engines had a very long working life.

 

2822 was delivered new in Jan 1907 and withdrawn on Wed Nov 18 1964 after a life of over 57 years.

 

Some of its last workings were:

 

Wed Nov 4 5M76 21.10 Temple Meads-Oxley

Fri Nov 6 5F09 18.52 Avonmouth-Llandilo

Fri Nov 13 T818 3.00 Weston

Sat Nov 14 T818 3.00 Weston

 

Here is a photo of the engine on Bristol Barrow Road Shed in steam a few weeks before withdrawal

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/5542190795/

[Bon Accord]

We shouldn't forget the NBR C class, aka J36. Some of them lasted right to the end of Scottish steam in June 1967, this from a design first built in 1888. No less than 30 members of this class were 70+ years of age when withdrawn. How many other classes can claim that so many members reached such an age in regular service? There can't be many.

[Dunsignalling]

The problem with the Cromptons (33s) on the Salisbury - Exeter route was that they were drastically underpowered for the loads/timings and the only way they could keep near to time was to turn off the eth on rising gradients - indeed they also had a lot of problems starting away from Tisbury on the Up if the eth wasn't turned off.

 

Referring to an earlier post the Western transferred the 'Warsghips' to the route because they were the only locos spare, simple as that and their poor reliability was nothing new although gradually sorted. I don't think the Region had any choice at all about the Class 50s which went onto the route as the fleet was being divided in any case (by higher authority at that time) and they had all undergone extensive work to improve reliability after arrival on the Region.

When the 33s and 50s were regularly being mixed the smaller locos were supposed to be rostered 7 coaches and the 50s, nine.

 

I was out photographing at Seaton Junction one day and heard a Crompton storming up the bank from Axminster in fine style and near enough right time. I was very surprised when it burst from under the Colyton Road bridge with nine on.

 

Probably just as well it was a nice warm day..........

 

I always thought we would have been better off with Hymeks than Warships (they had a much better reputation for reliability) but we hardly ever saw one on a passenger train, the Seaton Junction milk (while it lasted) was the only duty that produced one at all regularly.

 

I was once told we should count ourselves lucky that we only got Swindon Warships because the NBL ones were a darn sight worse!

 

John

[Bert Cheese]

The Swindon Warships on the LSWR routes were basically down to traction knowledge as SR crews only learnt the Maybach powered variant, along with the Hymeks and some passing out on Westerns in smaller numbers.

A driver qualified on a Maybach Warship would have to undertake a 3 day conversion course in order to learn the foibles of the NBL built locos, and both SR management and union branches (Waterloo/Basingstoke/Salisbury at least) wanted nothing to do with the latter anyway after seeing them expire at Reading on a daily basis!

 

As far as hydraulics went my father (Basingstoke MPD) learnt the Warships first which he said was quite daunting on first sight, the Hymeks being a 2 day conversion shortly afterwards which was a positive breeze apparently!

He drove Westerns often enough as pilotman to become familiar with them and after having one on a regular stone turn for a few days was entitled to claim traction knowledge under a reciprocol arrangement between the regions at the time (not all SR crews learned the hydraulics and rostering was sometimes tricky)...on the final day of this turn the WR inspector who had been riding with him was waiting with the fault books and other paperwork, and a Class 47 appeared...a bit of a blow, especially as he already had them on his card.

[Pobrien]

Bon Accord reminded us of the Scottish J36

 

We shouldn't forget the NBR C class, aka J36. Some of them lasted right to the end of Scottish steam in June 1967, this from a design first built in 1888. No less than 30 members of this class were 70+ years of age when withdrawn. How many other classes can claim that so many members reached such an age in regular service? There can't be many.

 

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/6109062164/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/6109062486/

[Tom Bayford]

The Class 455's where built in the 1980's with some of the phase 3 4557xx units having ex 508 trailer coaches which are 1970's theyre currently undergoing a refreshing C62 overhaul and soon to receive a new traction package for the three phase motors like the desiros so they can do the regenerative braking and get rid of the old control gear the idea being that it will be easier to convert them if they did put Overheads in and also this will mean they will last till 2030 plus so by then theyll be quite old.