Why are the J94/WD austerity 0-6-0's Unloved?

[papagolfjuliet]

I'm very fond of Austerity tanks. They sound terrific when hard at work, have kept a number of preserved lines going when no other steam locomotives were available ('Antwerp' on the NYMR in the early 80s being a case in point), and are especially admirable given that they were originally designed to last for about five minutes. It's just a shame that so many have been disguised as J94s, which fools nobody and seems almost disrespectful.

[The Black Hat]

I think a few people have raised issues that would be quite understandable with regards to the image and status of the J94/Austerity in preservation. The tanks were quite popular and versitile in nature and easily accesable for preservation as quite a few came from NCB backgrounds where steam lasted longer. A few railways survive on the reliablilty and power of the Austerity tank engines, Middleton, Embsay, Foxfield and Tanfield being a few.

 

To say that they are just shunters is I think underestimating the engines themselves. Despite the fact that this was there intended design railways do not remain the same and as such the function of many engines has changed. If people are wanting authenticity like it used to be your going to need a certain police box. As someone else stated, A4's, Kings, and Duchesses were all mainline engines. You wouldnt get an A4 into Pickering, Kiddermister or Bury. Equally so, an 8F or Q6 in unlined black would hardly be rosterd for a passenger working. This can be taken further... how many times do you arrive at a preserved railway and a Black 5 is the rostered motive power. These engines were also built in their hundreds, but thanks to a benevolent history for the class quite a few survived into preservation. The same can not be said for the B1, despite being built in similar(ish) numbers. Eastern regions were notorious for scrapping engines quickly and now as a result only two B1s survive, yet the class was prolific across the Eastern region. Black 5's were not too frequent across to Whitby, yet the NYMR, one of the lines I requent doenst look out of place with one. Yet, who complains when another Black 5 is seen when you arrive at both the Great Central, Bury and Keighley? These are almost as prolific as the Austerity tank everyone derives, but also out of place on 5 or 6 coaches on a passenger working, trundelling along at 25mph on a branch line that would have seen a tank engine.

 

The austerity tanks have a role to play still, indeed, the class is a marvellous success story that should be celebrated rather than dismissed. I think its a shame that more dont carry their NCB, industrial or even own liveries that an owner or preserved railway wants to apply. Theres only so much green and black that should be seen. Perhaps an engine such as a Austerity can add its own character or colour to the railway on which it opperates. The one at Bury came to the rescue last summer, when other engines were out of ticket or not available. Jo Public doesnt know, and fankly probably doesnt care what the engine on the front is, so long as it chuffs and sounds nice. Lets face it a working Austerity sounds impressive.

 

So, whether they are industrial or BR, J94 or Austerity, black, green, red or blue - ask yourself one question. Just sometimes, dont you think its nice to have a touch of decent mediocrity?

[Hammer]

The first limited edition model I ever bought was a Hornby Collectors Club Austerity. I fell in love with their design the first year that Hornby sold them. Both in model and prototype form they are visually stunning, powerful engines. I prefer the BR Black livery, but it's interesting to see the wealth of different liveries they ran in. Anyway, no-one complains about the bizarre number of liveries you see 08s and 04/06s in.

 

My only object is when they are seen as "disposable" engines which can be chopped up to make them look like Thomas & Friends. I can't remember which heritage railway did that, but it just doesn't sit right.

[bike2steam]

Well I tell you what. If anyone hs a spare one running around anywhere I would love one at Middleton!

 

Andy

 

Well when the ex Corby example became surplus to requirements at Swanage, it was sold to someone at the Teifi Railway in deep darkest south-west Wales. Although that was about 15 years ago, you never know, but don't ask me why it went there - it's a narrow gauge line

[Karhedron]

*NB The longer, hillier, preserved railways do need to additional power and capacity of course, but a 2800 on the South Devon Railway (for example) at Buckfastleigh is silly, no matter how attractive.

True but I would much rather ride behind the 2800 than an austerity. Partly this is because I am a GWR fan but also it is because the austerities are a bit bland compared to more distinctive engines. Even the BR standards have more character.

 

Having said that I apprecaite their importance, particularly on those preserved lines just starting out (Gwili railway for examnple). I do not begrudge them their usefullness. It just seems a shame to me that so many were preserved when more interesting (and still useful engines) like the BR std 3MT or the Granges were all cut up.

[Hammer]

True but I would much rather ride behind the 2800 than an austerity. Partly this is because I am a GWR fan but also it is because the austerities are a bit bland compared to more distinctive engines. Even the BR standards have more character.

 

Having said that I apprecaite their importance, particularly on those preserved lines just starting out (Gwili railway for examnple). I do not begrudge them their usefullness. It just seems a shame to me that so many were preserved when more interesting (and still useful engines) like the BR std 3MT or the Granges were all cut up.

 

The reason that so many were preserved was because they out lasted the BR engines in private ownership. There were still working Austerity engines working in the 80s. By the time Austerities were being sold off, we'd realised just how criminal melting down our industrial heritage was.

 

And of course, they were a cheap, easy-to-maintain workhorse for smaller preserved railways.

[RANGERS]

Well when the ex Corby example became surplus to requirements at Swanage, it was sold to someone at the Teifi Railway in deep darkest south-west Wales. Although that was about 15 years ago, you never know, but don't ask me why it went there - it's a narrow gauge line

 

They didn't use it, seemingly it derailed on the points.....

[ahardy]

A few railways survive on the reliablilty and power of the Austerity tank engines, Middleton, Embsay, Foxfield and Tanfield being a few.

 

I really wish we did rely on them at Middleton! Other than as a visitor once, we have never had a resident one. Its only my personal opinion, but I would love to have one here!

 

Andy

[papagolfjuliet]

I do not begrudge them their usefullness. It just seems a shame to me that so many were preserved when more interesting (and still useful engines) like the BR std 3MT or the Granges were all cut up.

 

Bear in mind that very few Austerities were preserved before the 1970s, by which time they were pretty much the biggest things available.

[Invicta]

I'm very fond of Austerity tanks. They sound terrific when hard at work, have kept a number of preserved lines going when no other steam locomotives were available ('Antwerp' on the NYMR in the early 80s being a case in point), and are especially admirable given that they were originally designed to last for about five minutes. It's just a shame that so many have been disguised as J94s, which fools nobody and seems almost disrespectful.

 

I agree with you about disguising them as ex-BR J94s- I've never been a great fan of dressing industrial locos up in fictitious mainline liveries, I'd much rather see them honestly displayed as what they are. My family history is very heavily involved with coal mining, so I'm quite partial to an NCB-liveried Austerity- Even though they're not particularly relevant to my main modelling activity, I still seem to have collected most of the NCB ones Hornby have released...

 

Anyway, doesn't this look so much better than BR unlined black...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2560/3874927102_1359e9a8ac.jpg

http://www.nemodelling.me.uk/NCB%2049-2.JPG

[Stormbringer]

What's more fun, a 4-6-2 barely making any effort with 6 Mk1 coaches trundling along at 20mph or a J94 actually putting some hard work in on the same load?

 

 

Depends where you go. A 4-6-2 with 6 on up over the alps on the Mhr sounds good to me. Also a J94 ( or any small 0-6-0) up Tenterden bank on the KESR with 3 on also sounds good to me.

 

Personally I like the J94's mainly because if memory serves me correctly they were the only wworking steam I ever saw at Snowdon Colliery in Kent somewhere around 1970.

 

Pete

[coachmann]

The J94's just looked so downright ugly, as indeed did the Austerity 2-8-0's and Bullied Q1 at the time. What would you prefer to see, an ancient pre-group 0-6-0 or a J94........No contest.

[Michael Delamar]

I agree with you about disguising them as ex-BR J94s- I've never been a great fan of dressing industrial locos up in fictitious mainline liveries, I'd much rather see them honestly displayed as what they are. My family history is very heavily involved with coal mining, so I'm quite partial to an NCB-liveried Austerity- Even though they're not particularly relevant to my main modelling activity, I still seem to have collected most of the NCB ones Hornby have released...

 

Anyway, doesn't this look so much better than BR unlined black...

http://farm3.static...._1359e9a8ac.jpg

http://www.nemodelli.../NCB%2049-2.JPG

 

agree that looks really nice,

 

btw Invicta, I like your avatar, looks like Robb Gravetts 1990 rs500?

 

Mike

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Though largely a diesel fan I have to say I find small industrial steam engines interesting in their own right. be they standard or narrow gauge, and can sort of understand the point being got at here. I tend to think preservation is a rule to itself when starting out they need to have cheap available power and the Austerities bridged that gap.

 

Things have moved on, I think both the Middleton Railway and or the Abbey narrow gauge railway in leeds could both become centres of excellence for the industrial locomotives given the proximity to Hunslet, Baguley manufacturers.

 

I do dislike getting a 'big' engine on a preserved raiway as someone already said a black 5 is probably the maximum and overkill at that. From where we live the railways of choice are the ELR or Worth Valley - these regularly run the LMS Jinty's/BR 3F which always seem ideal and authentic both for the location and loadings, If these weren't available I'd rather a austerity than a big tender engine- indeed the KWVR has a rather nice South Wales 0-6-2 tank.

[Guest Max Stafford]

Personally, I'm shocked by the perceived contempt shown for these wonderful beasts. Simple, robust, reliable and extremely powerful, surely they encompass everything that is laudable in any locomotive, regardless of the source of its power!

If they were good enough for the LNER to purchase en masse ,then that surely tells its own story. Additionally, when the heritage railway scene was in its infancy in the 1970s, this coincided with the period when the NCB was starting to replace its steam fleet and collieries were starting to close as historically productive seams became worked out. Bearing in mind all the circumstances that combined at just the right time, I strongly believe that the 'Austerity' tanks deserve much more respect than they are given!

 

Dave.

[The Black Hat]

Fact is that even a Jinty is a shunting locomotive and so just as out of place as a J94 would be. The Austerities (I call them J94's - much easier! Especially when typing!) can be just about do anything locomotives, but passenger workings were'nt really what they didn. Despite this I said that railways evolve and so have the duties for the locomotives. I think some of the problem seeing a small shunter is that they still believe in a rigid structre of a role for engines that used to be. There isnt any wagons or Yards for a J94, Jinty, or even better, a J72 to shunt in. As a result they are working on different roles now.

 

Have some modellers done their own liveries for a J94 / Austerities. Would be interesting to see some results for new NCB liveries or better still, your own railway!

[Guest Phil]

Personally, I'm shocked by the perceived contempt shown for these wonderful beasts. Simple, robust, reliable and extremely powerful, surely they encompass everything that is laudable in any locomotive, regardless of the source of its power!

If they were good enough for the LNER to purchase en masse ,then that surely tells its own story. Additionally, when the heritage railway scene was in its infancy in the 1970s, this coincided with the period when the NCB was starting to replace its steam fleet and collieries were starting to close as historically productive seams became worked out. Bearing in mind all the circumstances that combined at just the right time, I strongly believe that the 'Austerity' tanks deserve much more respect than they are given!

 

Dave.

 

 

What you say is absolutely right Dave, but no matter which way you dress it up, the majority of preserved lines wish to emulate "the big railway". This generally means that they have to a water boiling locomotive which looks like one from "the big railway".

 

As I said earlier in the thread - I was very dismissive of non-BR power until onyl a couple of years ago so I understand what this is about.

 

What I am pleased about is that a small number of preservation centres have recognised their heritage and developed in an industrial themed way. The Chasewater operation which we hope to convene at again this year is a classic example. They did have BR classes 31, 37 and 73 but they have all departed to South Wales leaving industrial locos to reign supreme. This has opened my eyes to industrial railways to the extent that I now see both sides of this argument.

[Jordan-Leeds]

The huimble austerity saddletank is not a J94 at all it is purely a industrial loco with a small ammout of mainline pedagree.

i work on the Kwvr and a jinty running on the branch is authentic! we wouldnt be where we are today without a few austeritys indeed they built our railway to what it is now but have moved onto pastures new it is the same with the RSH uglys they where based withus for a period

we now only have one austerity and a rather nice ex manchester ship canal loco at the railway further down the branch there is Nunlow and tny and a ex doxford crane tank but really we dont have many industrials left as they cannot keep to the time that we would require from them

mention is give earlier in this thread to a south wales 0-6-2 tank this is a ex Taff vale railway and gwr machine that spent a rather large chunk of its lifetime in infustrial service at the lamberton hetton and joicey coillery in the north east it is a superb machine and does what it says on the tin

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Fact is that even a Jinty is a shunting locomotive and so just as out of place as a J94 would be. The Austerities (I call them J94's - much easier! Especially when typing!) can be just about do anything locomotives, but passenger workings were'nt really what they didn. Despite this I said that railways evolve and so have the duties for the locomotives. I think some of the problem seeing a small shunter is that they still believe in a rigid structre of a role for engines that used to be. There isnt any wagons or Yards for a J94, Jinty, or even better, a J72 to shunt in. As a result they are working on different roles now.

On the first bit well out of the classes you mention I thing the Jinties were much more a 'maid of all work' there is certainly pictorial evidence of them operating branch/suburban passenger and freight in the ex L&Y areas I've looked into this in some depth as research for an unbuilt 7mm project. J94's were also used on the Allenheads branch (NER) definitely as more than shunting engines, they were on branch freight though tehres nothing to suggest passenger operation (indeed the line closed early to passengers) and a J71(very similar to J72) was trialled on the North Sunderland Railway but found to be too bigso the passenger service was put in the hands of much smaller 0-4-0 shunting engines!

 

so largely theres a prototype for everything whether you are a modeller or preserved railway!

 

The idea about 'own livery/railway' for the austerities etc is quite interesting - US and narrow guage modellers do it - if its good enough for them etc.....

[Invicta]

agree that looks really nice,

 

btw Invicta, I like your avatar, looks like Robb Gravetts 1990 rs500?

 

Mike

 

Yes, Gravett at Brands in 1990

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2440/4093179724_32c0589885_o.jpg

[Invicta]

On the first bit well out of the classes you mention I thing the Jinties were much more a 'maid of all work' there is certainly pictorial evidence of them operating branch/suburban passenger and freight in the ex L&Y areas I've looked into this in some depth as research for an unbuilt 7mm project. J94's were also used on the Allenheads branch (NER) definitely as more than shunting engines, they were on branch freight though tehres nothing to suggest passenger operation (indeed the line closed early to passengers) and a J71(very similar to J72) was trialled on the North Sunderland Railway but found to be too bigso the passenger service was put in the hands of much smaller 0-4-0 shunting engines!

 

so largely theres a prototype for everything whether you are a modeller or preserved railway!

 

The idea about 'own livery/railway' for the austerities etc is quite interesting - US and narrow guage modellers do it - if its good enough for them etc.....

 

Re Jinties on passenger servies, some were push-pull fitted (7477-81,7655 & 7681 according to a caption in Fowler Locomotives by Brian Haresnape- the caption accompanies a pic of 47478 at Swansea- apparently used on Swansea-Brynamman services). The same book also suggests they replaced North London Railway 4-4-0Ts on Broad Street-Potters Bar workings in the late 20s- illustrated by a shot of 16582 with what looks a 6-coach train near Potters Bar

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Re Jinties on passenger servies, some were push-pull fitted

Thought as much but was not 100% certain. would this not be something interesting to portray on preserved railways?

[f#m]

Thought as much but was not 100% certain. would this not be something interesting to portray on preserved railways?

 

provided the right pushpull set is preserved

 

 

I love these locos. they are a big part of memories of steam in my case cause i'm not old enough to have seen steam in regular mainline service most of my early memories of it are of the common sight of an austerity 0-6-0 pulling a few mk1's they would also have been some of the last steam loco's working in the UK I imagine though not on the mainline. in many ways i prefer the industrial/shunting loco to the mainline without them there would have been no coal trains for bigger fancier engines to pull. no coal to keep them engines fired either. no coal shunted around to make the power in coal fired power stations to power overhead electric lines. its fair to say that without them and their predecesors shunting away we wouldn't have any of the big loco's everyone laveshes so much attention on.

 

long live the austerity 0-6-0

[Tom Bayford]

Although Norman we have at Swanage now isnt working i think it will be fun to work as it will be our 'training' loco and i think the small drivers and smallish firebox will be fun to fire. But then again people forget that Austerity's have a power rating of 4 so they are more powerfull than M7's Ivatt 2's Jinties etc.

[60B]

We have had 4 at the Strathspey over the years:

 

9: Well used during the 90s. Much like 828, withdrawn with a number of plugged tubes.

 

48 & 60: Never really saw them in service though were popular through the 80s.

 

Swiftsure: Was fired up for the second time and the firebox crown collapsed.

 

68030: Been with us for a while now and is likely to leave once 828 is finally complete.

 

I'm sure there was one numbered 2996 years back (its on a magnet on my fridge) and it looks kind of "Swindonised". They are kind of assocciated with smaller concerns and ones who didn't get to Barry quick enough.

 

Once/ if Grantown is reached, the tank engines will be hanging on a thread as WPR No. 17 struggles to complete the day with a full bunker.