Why are the J94/WD austerity 0-6-0's Unloved?

[Ruston]

Is that both the austerities and the j94s?

They are the same. J94 is only an LNER classification code for the ones that they took into stock.

[Killian keane]

They are the same. J94 is only an LNER classification code for the ones that they took into stock.

I do know that they are the same class, it seems though that the ncb engines would be easier to procure, seeing as they were still working in the early '80s, I could have sworn I heard there were over 70 preserved examples in all

[avonside1563]

It depends on where you look. There's two wiki pages one stating 56 and one suggesting over 70. I'll be honest I don't know exactly but I thought it was in the 50s. Either way they are the largest class of preserved locos.

[Steamport Southport]

The one saying 56 is labelled with "citation needed" meaning it is "dubious".

 

Surely one of the Industrial experts knows the correct answer? 

 

 

BTW I thought there was at least 75 Class 08s preserved making them the largest class of preserved locomotives. With probably more to come.

 

 

 

Jason

[Andy Kirkham]

How many (if any) of the preserved ones are true (former BR) J94s?

 

I have mislaid my copy of Casserley's Preserved Locomotives (published 1968?) but I don't remember any austerities being listed there as preserved at that time. Since none went to Barry I would have thought the only J94s that could have been preserved would be those which BR had earlier sold off to industry.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Andy Kirkham

[Sir Hadyn]

Two - 68077 and 68078, both of which served the NCB after sale from British Railways

[avonside1563]

The one saying 56 is labelled with "citation needed" meaning it is "dubious".

 

Surely one of the Industrial experts knows the correct answer? 

 

 

BTW I thought there was at least 75 Class 08s preserved making them the largest class of preserved locomotives. With probably more to come.

 

 

 

Jason

There's 62 listed on the Wikipedia page for preserved locos. My original number came from a few(!) years ago (ok more than a few years ago).

 

Obviously I was referring to real locos (steam) not these modern infernal confusion engined pretenders!

[Killian keane]

Besides the fact that were not including diseasels, to be honest arent most 08 diseasels in preservation just used as utility locos rather like the talyllyn railways no.5 and 6 (which have subsequently become vintage)?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Killian keane

[Ruston]

There was a list of all Austerity 0-6-0STs and their disposals, published in 1988, in Locomotives Illustrated No.61. I make it 51 in preservation in that list (although i may have missed one or two - it is very small print and I haven't got my specs on). 31 of those are orignal WD engines with the other 20 being built post-war for industrial use.

 

If the wiki page is correct I'm wondering where the extra 11 now in preservation have come from as I don't imagine that any were still in industrial use in 1988.

[avonside1563]

That's about the time my original number was from. I presume that list wasnt complete although there were still a few in industry into the early 80s.

[Marshall5]

Does that figure include those preserved outside the U.K?  There is one preserved in Tunis and a couple in the Netherlands IIRC.

Ray.

[Great Eastern Lady]

I know this is an old thread but I’ve just joined

I used to be a fireman on the K&ESR , a volunteer member from 1979 to 2002 , and I can quite safely say that the railway owes a lot to the 0-6-0st Hunslett austerity. Many times it was all that was available with the USA tanks and terriers being restored or overhauled, and some of the other locos we had were just not powerful enough to haul five mk1,s up Tenterden bank .

When I left the railway the austerity’s that were left had been much modified with additional lubrication to the axle boxes to cope with the longer runs to Northiam and Bodiam and rocking grates with hopper ash pans.

Being in the footplate filling the box up with coal and just letting it cook as we got away from Rolvenden slowly closing the firebox door as the smoke began to decrease and then waiting for the driver to stick it into main valve with the pressure on the mark, you appreciate just how much power they had to give 

[rockershovel]

The Austerities were like the Q1 - highly developed locos embodying “last generation” design, in their specialised roles. 

[Ben B]

Just caught up on this topic, and covers much of what I tend to associate with the locomotives.  Personally I really like them, and the design and the ethos behind the class.  I'd see pics of them on preserved lines like the KESR in my books, but didn't get to see one for real.  My trouble is that when I was growing up, my local line (Severn Valley) had already grown past the point of their Austerity tank and sold it on... in fact I didn't get to properly photograph one until moving to West Yorkshire and seeing "Wimbelbury", looking utterly magnificent in dark blue, on the Middleton ( it slightly surprises me that the Middleton doesn't have one on the strength, if there was ever a steam loco which epitomises the Leeds loco industry, it's an Austerity).

 

Even though my current local line (Worth Valley) used to rely on the class, it only has the one now, the historically-significant "Brussels" but that will probably forever be stuffed and mounted in the exhibition shed.  I cannot see the KWVR ever needing to restore it, even though it would be a nice off-season loco for the 3-carriage midweek timetable, and another splash of colour on a line which until recently was dominated by BR black.  To my annoyance, I missed the visiting Mech.Navvies in operation during the gala visit a couple of years back (though I at least got to see it in the yard at Ingrow in the sun, waiting to be winched onto the lorry home).

 

I'm assuming with the collapse of DJM, the hopes of a RTR 0-gauge Austerity tank are gone, or would it be the sort of thing Dapol would pick up?

 

Mindyou, I'm still missing the admittedly crude, but very nice N gauge RTR model originally by Farish; I bought two of the re-issues by Bachmann with the better chassis, just after they took over.  I know they're out of keeping with the current fashion in N, but it would be nice to see some of the older models released under a similar scheme to the Hornby Railroad range.  Wishful thinking I know for a budget, low-detail entry-level tank loco for N for under £40, but hey-ho... 

[Great Eastern Lady]

@Ben B You should get over there , KESR still have two , no’s 23 & 25

25 Northiam still in service 

[Barry O]

How many of the preserved Hunslets are still fitted with an underfeed stoker which works?

Hunslet did quite a lot of work in later years on improvements like that (as well as draughting, chimneys etc).

 

Still a very powerful locomotive and it is a shame that some people don't appreciate them.

 

Part of the Hunslet family..standard 14",15",16" then..the magnus opus the 18".. which people know as the Austerity/J94 and not forgetting the 50551s.

 

Of course Bachmann did a brass J94 in O Gauge some time ago (including one with the coal bunker extensions. 

 

Baz

[avonside1563]

The 48150 and 50550 class were both part of the 14" - 18" 'standard' Hunslet family designed well before the outbreak of World War 2. The 18" austerity tank is based around the 50550 class but has lots of detail differences to enable them to be produced cheaply and quickly during WW2 that set them apart from the earlier 18" designs.

 

None of the existing Austerities have working underfeed stokers, the last one that I saw with one that worked was Monkton when first preserved at the Yorkshire Dales railway in the early 80s.

 

Just to show what preservation can achieve the photo below is from a charter at Foxfield on the 29th December 2019... or is it 1969?

 

[alexl102]

On 05/01/2020 at 22:09, Ben B said:

Just caught up on this topic, and covers much of what I tend to associate with the locomotives.  Personally I really like them, and the design and the ethos behind the class.  I'd see pics of them on preserved lines like the KESR in my books, but didn't get to see one for real.  My trouble is that when I was growing up, my local line (Severn Valley) had already grown past the point of their Austerity tank and sold it on... in fact I didn't get to properly photograph one until moving to West Yorkshire and seeing "Wimbelbury", looking utterly magnificent in dark blue, on the Middleton (it slightly surprises me that the Middleton doesn't have one on the strength, if there was ever a steam loco which epitomises the Leeds loco industry, it's an Austerity).

 

Even though my current local line (Worth Valley) used to rely on the class, it only has the one now, the historically-significant "Brussels" but that will probably forever be stuffed and mounted in the exhibition shed.  I cannot see the KWVR ever needing to restore it, even though it would be a nice off-season loco for the 3-carriage midweek timetable, and another splash of colour on a line which until recently was dominated by BR black.  To my annoyance, I missed the visiting Mech.Navvies in operation during the gala visit a couple of years back (though I at least got to see it in the yard at Ingrow in the sun, waiting to be winched onto the lorry home).

 

Another one just catching up here! I love these locomotives and I do think some enthusiasts look down on Industrials in a big way.

In response to the above... you're absolutely right about its significance and in the Middleton Railway's museum it does say that if they had the right opportunity to acquire an Austerity in the future then they'd like to.
However, I think there are two reasons why they haven't got one at the moment. Firstly, one of the aims of the Middleton Railway is to preserve and promote Leeds' railway history. Their fleet at the moment is largely (though not exclusively) types of which only one/two exist - the two Manning Wardle L Classes, Slough Estates No. 3, Brookes No.1, MSC67 (long tank). Even those that don't have specific links to Leeds, the Sentinel & the Y7 - are each part of endangered classes. In terms of the preservation movement as a whole, the Austerity 0-6-0ST is really well-represented so I imagine it's less of a priority.

Secondly, in Steam Railway magazine's current (500th) issue, someone from the Middleton Railway is interviewed for a feature on Industrials and commented that they'd love to add to their fleet but they're more or less at capacity for storage/management at the moment, so they'd probably have to dispose of some locomotives before they could add more. It makes sense as their museum shed is almost full, and that's with two engines away for cosmetic restoration - altho I think only one, Conway, is coming back in the near future.
 

 

[alexl102]

Additionally - it's been interesting this past year to see the NVR, a regular host of Tornado & Flying Scotsman, hire in Austerity 3193 from Bressingham this year as one of their main steam locomotives.

[doilum]

On 31/05/2017 at 09:50, Marshall5 said:

Does that figure include those preserved outside the U.K?  There is one preserved in Tunis and a couple in the Netherlands IIRC.

Ray.

I posted a similar question in October. The concensus was that the number is around 65, although this includes repurposed locos and some which have been reduced to parts in the weeds.

[doilum]

On 06/01/2020 at 07:23, Barry O said:

How many of the preserved Hunslets are still fitted with an underfeed stoker which works?

Hunslet did quite a lot of work in later years on improvements like that (as well as draughting, chimneys etc).

 

Still a very powerful locomotive and it is a shame that some people don't appreciate them.

 

Part of the Hunslet family..standard 14",15",16" then..the magnus opus the 18".. which people know as the Austerity/J94 and not forgetting the 50551s.

 

Of course Bachmann did a brass J94 in O Gauge some time ago (including one with the coal bunker extensions. 

 

Baz

The only problem with the brass J94 was that the Chinese factory scaled up the 2mm model complete with all the boiler compromises. I think I even saw a 10mm version, but that might have been a cheese and ale induced nightmare!  Mercian do an accurate and easy to build kit, or, they make a good first scratch building project.

[melmerby]

10 minutes ago, doilum said:

I posted a similar question in October. The concensus was that the number is around 65, although this includes repurposed locos and some which have been reduced to parts in the weeds.

This is the Wiki total:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preserved_Hunslet_Austerity_0-6-0ST_locomotives

 

That includes post war examples.

[doilum]

3 minutes ago, melmerby said:

This is the Wiki total:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preserved_Hunslet_Austerity_0-6-0ST_locomotives

 

That includes post war examples.

Still missing HE 3180 Antwerp. One of my favourites, it retired from Wheldale colliery to the North Yorkshire Moors circa 1980 and worked until at least the mid 80s. After many years in "storage" it ended up in Kent although I am not aware of its current state.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, doilum said:

Still missing HE 3180 Antwerp. One of my favourites, it retired from Wheldale colliery to the North Yorkshire Moors circa 1980 and worked until at least the mid 80s. After many years in "storage" it ended up in Kent although I am not aware of its current state.

Does say the list needs updating as of November 2017.

[Ben B]

9 hours ago, alexl102 said:

you're absolutely right about its significance and in the Middleton Railway's museum it does say that if they had the right opportunity to acquire an Austerity in the future then they'd like to.
However, I think there are two reasons why they haven't got one at the moment. Firstly, one of the aims of the Middleton Railway is to preserve and promote Leeds' railway history. Their fleet at the moment is largely (though not exclusively) types of which only one/two exist - the two Manning Wardle L Classes, Slough Estates No. 3, Brookes No.1, MSC67 (long tank). Even those that don't have specific links to Leeds, the Sentinel & the Y7 - are each part of endangered classes. In terms of the preservation movement as a whole, the Austerity 0-6-0ST is really well-represented so I imagine it's less of a priority.

Secondly, in Steam Railway magazine's current (500th) issue, someone from the Middleton Railway is interviewed for a feature on Industrials and commented that they'd love to add to their fleet but they're more or less at capacity for storage/management at the moment, so they'd probably have to dispose of some locomotives before they could add more. It makes sense as their museum shed is almost full, and that's with two engines away for cosmetic restoration - altho I think only one, Conway, is coming back in the near future.

 

Thanks for that info- I suppose that makes sense, it's a shame that they need such secure accommodation for the stock but given the problems they've faced, I can see why.  I've been to Middleton for pretty much every gala for the last few years, and I am full of admiration for the Vols there managing to run a railway through an urban area, with all the theft, arson, and trespass risks.  It was quite sobering being on a train at the last gala which had to stop as a masked teenager was standing, arms folded, on the track whilst his mates lined up to pelt it.  I was amazed by how calm the guard was as he walked past us with a weary smile and just said "here's where the fun starts."

 

I digress; as a fan of industrial locomotives it's so nice to be able to go to a line which embraces the more eccentric end of the railway scene, all those lovely little tank engines and especially the historically-significant diesel shunters.  I suppose if they can keep getting the odd Austerity as a visitor, it keeps it special.