Scratchbuilt SECR/SR/BR(S) stock

[pete_mcfarlane]

I've decided to start a new thread to cover my attempt at scratchbuilding a coach. I've been after one of the SECR six wheeled passenger brakes for a while - Branchlines used to do a kit, but it's no longer available (the four wheel version is and I'm building one at the moment).

 

So I decided to have a go at scratchbuilding one, as I've fancied having a go at scratchbuilding a coach for a while. I suspect that Colin Park's thread on building a 4-COR had some influence on the decision to finally have a go.

 

I had drawings of one of these in the Pendragon book on Non Passenger coaches, and after some careful reading of David Gould's 'Carriage stock of the SECR' to try to understand the seemingly endless variations of these vehicles and their ducket positions I decided to do number 601 - a diagram 885 vehicle. There's a photo of it in the book in Southern livery.

 

One of these vans from the same batch survives on the Bluebell awaiting restoration. I also spotted the remains of another earlier SER example at Dungeness encased in a shed, but with the centre Birdcage observatory poking through the roof!

I started out by rereading bits of David Jenkinson's book on coach construction - I bought this years ago, but had done nothing but read it and dither. This told me to mark the panel layer out on 10 thou plasticard, so I did this.

This was then cut out - this was the most laborious part of the work so far. I then mounted it on a 20 thou side (in a different colour as per the Jenkinson book). This was laminated to another 20 thou layer (which became the droplights and window frames) and then finally to a 40thou backing layer for stiffness. These vehicles had no turn under to the sides.

 

Geoff Kent's article in the latest MRJ on building coaches came at just the right time - I've bought a scraperboard knife after reading how useful they were.and used it to scribe the door lines.

I then assembled the coach body, using yet more 40 thou plasticard for ends, floor and plenty of reinforcing partitions.

The next challenge is the roof.. My first thought was to use a Roxey plastic one, but these are intended for carriages, which are nearly a foot wider than the vans. So I'm making my own, out of laminations of plasticard filed and sanded to shape. So far so good - this photo shows the state of play at lunchtime today. Since then I've sanded down the filer and sprayed the roof with primer to show up and rough patches.

The plan is to add a cartridge paper outer skin to the roof. I'm also using the same laminated plastic approach for the duckets. Once the roof and duckets are complete the remaining challenges will be the Birdcage lookout and building a six wheel underframe that doesn't derail. 

Edited February 2, 2014 by pete_mcfarlane

[dajt]

A very impressive start

[Colin parks]

Hi Pete,

 

What an interesting project!

 

You are certainly brave to have a go at a 4mm panelled coach in Plastikard.  The sides looks very neat.  It did occur to me that the 10 thou. panelling could be carefully sanded down to about 7 thou. once all has hardened.  With care, this does work.  Did you mark the body panelling straight off the drawing?  It looks like a complex bit of pencil work.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[pete_mcfarlane]

Colin,

 

It took about an hour to mark the panelling out, copying the dimensions off the drawing. Luckily the sides are a mirror image of each other, which speeded things up a little.

 

I did do some sanding down of the panelling layer, but mainly to hide the joins where I spliced in replacement sections. I'll see if I can reduce the thickness a bit more, to nearer scale.

 

Pete

[Colin parks]

Hi Pete,

 

Well if you managed to get the panelling like that from transferred measurements - amazing! I always make a copy of the drawing and place the plastic to be marked immediately below, then rule in all the verticals with a 'T' shaped ruler with a right-angled slide, which runs along the bottom edge of the cutting mat.

 

What about doing a proper 'Jenkinson' style canvas roof? Thin paper would stick very well to that roof of yours if wetted with solvent (in a well-ventilated space of course!)and small plastic parts such as water strips would adhere to the paper likewise.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[pete_mcfarlane]

Colin,

 

Err yes, why did I not think of taking the dimensions directly off the drawing...... Thanks for that tip, I'll give it a go on my next coach (which is an incentive to have another go once this is complete). 

 

I'l going too give the paper roof a try. It's now at the stage where I'm alternately painting, filling and rubbing down to try and get it as smooth as possible.

[uax6]

How about scanning the drawing and then printing it directly onto the 10 thou card? I did this for my first panelled coach (my WCJS compo sleeper). Just be careful that you don't smudge the ink too much as you cut it out. I must say that it has turned out looking very nice.

 

For an underframe try Branchlines again. They do a very nice cleminson, but sadly its for a MR vehicle. Not sure how much different it would be, and would you notice under the footboards? Or maybe Roxey do one?

 

Andy G

[hayfield]

 

 Once the roof and duckets are complete the remaining challenges will be the Birdcage lookout and building a six wheel underframe that doesn't derail. 

 

Comet do a coach 6 wheel set of etched W irons, looking at the etches the center W iron has an internal bearing etch so you can cut of the pinpoint extended axle parts and let the wheels slide crossways

[pete_mcfarlane]

I dug out my one and only 6 wheel coach this evening - a D&S Chatham third. This has an arrangement very similar to the Comet etch. A fixed axle at one end, and compensated axle at the other, and a floating axle in the middle. It refuses to derail on my test track, even on the ropey bits. I think this might be the best solution.

 

I've experimented with printing on plasticard, but I didn't have much success as it smudged a bit too much. Of course the best solution would be one of those vinyl cutters - it could cut the panelling layer out of scale thickness material, or do complete sides for flush sided stock. But I'm generally sticking clear of any computer based approaches like CAD and 3D printing as I spend all day in front of a computer at work.

[billbedford]

This is the simplest way with six-wheeled coaches.

[pete_mcfarlane]

This is the simplest way with six-wheeled coaches.

That sounds even easier, so I'll give it a try. 

[pete_mcfarlane]

Some minor progress over the last few days. The plasticard inner core of the roof is finished, so I need to get some cartridge paper to cover it with. And some runny superglue, so I can try David Jenkinson's trick of soaking the overhanging end section in superglue to harden it.

 

The end panelling is also complete - this was mostly assembled from Evergreen plastic strip. And finally, the inner core of the duckets has been carved out of several layers of laminated plasticard, and fixed in place. This will have a 10 thou panel overlay to match the rest of the body.

 

 

 

[uax6]

Did you try sanding the sheet first before you put it in the printer? I found that it seemed to hold onto the ink better that way.

 

Those duckets are a work of art!

 

Andy g

[pete_mcfarlane]

I didn't try sanding it. I sprayed it with matt varnish to give it a surface to print on, but that wasn't very effective. Sanding sounds more effective.

 

The other thing I tried, with reasonable success, was printing the drawing on to self adhesive A4 paper and using it as a pattern, I made a GWR plywood van that way, and it was pretty effective. I'm not sure how it would work with a coach though, any slightly roughness in the paper is OK on a tatty looking van but not on a coach.

[uax6]

That could be an interesting way to make your beading! I beat after a couple of coats of paint it would look ok.

 

Andy

[pete_mcfarlane]

Progress has been slow due to work and other commitments, but I should have more time over the next few weeks. I decided to ty Bill Bedford's suggestion of replacing the axle with a length of tubing and having it slide on a 1mm Exactoscale axle. This seems too work OK, and passes through the points and curves on my test track without derailing. The axleguards are from MJT - fixed at one end, compensated at the other with the sliding axle in the middle. As you can see, it has quite a lot of sideplay (helped by using OO with it's underscale track gauge).

The roof is now covered with cartridge paper - it took me three goes to get this right. The duckets have been given their panelling layer, and I'm ready too start detailing the body. The only really tricky bit left is going to be the birdcage - I'm currently thinking of either making it from nickel silver sheet, or clear plastic and adding the window framing with a bowpen.

[Colin parks]

Hi Pete,

 

The coach is coming on nicely. The solution you have come up with for the centre axle is a very interesting one. It will be interesting to see what you come up with for the birdcage.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

Edited June 7, 2013 by Colin parks

[pete_mcfarlane]

A quick update to show the progress this week, as I've been able to spend time on this model every evening. It now has most of the body detailing in place, with door hinges, handrails (or least holes for them as I've left some off to make it easier to line) and various other bits of detailing. The axlboxes and springs are from 51L and are for a Midland 6 wheeler, but are close enough. It still needs a few odd things like buffers and a dynamo which I'll order shortly from Branchlines, but the only major tasks left are the lower footboards and the birdcage.

 

[hayfield]

Pete

 

Its looking rather splendid

[pete_mcfarlane]

The van is now ready for the paint shop.

After re-reading Geoff Kent's recent article in the MRJ, I decided to try making the birdcage lookout using 10 thou plasticard laminated to  clear Evergreen plastic sheet using the DiLimone solvent I got from Wizard models. This turned out quite well, and was a lot easier than making it out of sheet metal. In the end only the lookout roof needed to be from NS sheet.

I also added the various detailing parts. The foot boards were a bit fiddly - they are soldered up from NS strip and brass wire. I was able to get some SER buffers from Branchlines along with a suitable dynamo. One oddity I've noticed from photos is that, whilst I can see a dynamo, there's no sign of a battery box. I can always add one if I turn up more information later (or were the batteries stored inside the coach body - it can't have had ore than a handful of light bulbs). 

Next steps are to paint and line - it's going to be in SR Maunsell green with a white roof.

[Colin parks]

Hi Pete,

 

That is a really nice old-time coach you have produced. The birdcage tops it off perfectly. Rather you than me with the lining-out though.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

 

Edit: You can work your way through that plans book now!

Edited June 19, 2013 by Colin parks

[pete_mcfarlane]

There's a rather nice LCDR 6 wheeler on the previous page that I might try. But I'm tempted to try a passenger coach next - possibly a pull-push set, as these tended to be two completely different types of coach.

[pete_mcfarlane]

After etch priming the brass bits, I gave it a coat of Halford's red primer.

This has shown up the use imperfections, which will be filled and sanded on Sunday once the paint has fully hardened. 

[N15class]

This is a lovely bit of work. I look forward to seeing the complete article. It has given me a kick up the a##e to get on with my push pull set.

[Colin parks]

The coach is looking nice Pete.

 

A coat of paint always blends together all the elements of models made from diverse materials.

 

All the best,

 

Colin