Crompton48 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Hi i would like to model some royal train coaches from the 1970's-1985 which vehcles were used and are there any kits avalible for OO gauge ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnw1 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 I managed this set of photo's in 1977. HRH was alighting on platform 1 as I was taking some of these. I wonder if I would get this close today? 47514 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5735455795/ 47514 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5735996078/ 2900 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5736002164/ 2903 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5735453649/ 2906 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5735447169/ 45000 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/pics-by-john/5735449541/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crompton48 Posted May 19, 2013 Author Share Posted May 19, 2013 Thanks very useful photo's i had no idea that the Mk3's were used from 1977 onwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted May 19, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2013 i think with 1977 being the jubilee year, there was a programme of updating the train. hence some (much) older vehicles were replaced by newer ones e.g. the mk3s for his'n'hers saloons and the mk2b BFKs for the power/sleeper brakes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted May 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2013 Part of the upgrade was to provide a train which could keep pace with the scheduled trains. I believe that there were some experimental or prototype coaches which were converted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 From 1970 to 1977, the available Royal Train stock was: 109 - Royal Train Brake (ex-ECJS 1908) 325 - Royal Household kitchen/dining (ex-Mk 2B BFK 14112, retained post-1977 as 2907) 395 - King Edward VII's saloon (ex-ECJS 1908) 396 - Queen Alexandra's saloon (ex-ECJS 1908) 499 - Royal Family dining car (BR 1956, retained post-1977 as 2902) 798 - King George VI's armoured saloon (LMS 1941) 799 - Queen Elizabeth's armoured saloon (LMS 1941) 806 - Semi-Royal Saloon (LNWR 1903, withdrawn 1971) 2013 - Sleeper (BR 1958, ex-Mk 1 SLF 2013, retained post-1977 as 2908) 2900 - Royal Family lounge (BR 1955, retained post-1977) 2901 - Royal Household office (BR 1957, retained post-1977) 2902 - Dining car (BR 1956, ex-M399, retained post-1977) 5154 - Staff car (LNWR 1905) 5155 - Staff couchette (LNWR 1905) 9005 - Queen Elizabeth's (Queen Mother's) saloon (GWR 1945, retained until 1984 but not officially part of the 1977 Royal Train) 9006 - Queen Elizabeth's (Queen Mother's) saloon (GWR 1945, retained until 1984 but not officially part of the 1977 Royal Train) 31209 - Staff sleeper/generator (LMS 1941, retained post-1977 as 2910) 45000 - Special saloon (LNWR 1920, retained post-1977 as 2911) 45005 - Special saloon (LMS 1942) 45006 - Special saloon (LMS 1942, retained post-1977 as 2912) The 1977 Royal Train was consisted of: 2900 - Royal Family lounge 2901 - Royal Household office 2902 - Royal Family dining car 2903 - Queen's saloon (ex-HST prototype TF11001) 2904 - Duke of Edinburgh's saloon (ex-HST prototype TS12001) 2905 - Royal Household sleeping/generator car (ex-Mk 2B BFK 14105) 2906 - Royal Household sleeper (ex-Mk 2B BFK 14112) 2907 - Royal Household dining car 2908 - Royal Household sleeper 2910 - Royal Household sleeper, generator & brake van 2911 - Special Saloon 2912 - Special Saloon 2910-2912 were restricted to 70mph and the others were allowed 100mph. 2909 Royal Household sleeper (ex-Mk 1 SLSTP 2500) was added in 1981. New Royal Household coaches were converted from Mk 3 stock in 1985-86 and the Mk 1 and 2 stock was withdrawn. There were two very detailed articles on the Royal Train in Railway Modeller in 1981, the prototype in the July issue and modelling it in the August issue. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Hurst Models do etched overlays for converting RTR coaches to the required stock. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2013 From 1970 to 1977, the available Royal Train stock was: 109 - Royal Train Brake (ex-ECJS 1908) 325 - Royal Household kitchen/dining (ex-Mk 2B BFK 14112, retained post-1977 as 2907) 395 - King Edward VII's saloon (ex-ECJS 1908) 396 - Queen Alexandra's saloon (ex-ECJS 1908) 499 - Royal Family dining car (BR 1956, retained post-1977 as 2902) 798 - King George VI's armoured saloon (LMS 1941) 799 - Queen Elizabeth's armoured saloon (LMS 1941) 806 - Semi-Royal Saloon (LNWR 1903, withdrawn 1971) 2013 - Sleeper (BR 1958, ex-Mk 1 SLF 2013, retained post-1977 as 2908) 2900 - Royal Family lounge (BR 1955, retained post-1977) 2901 - Royal Household office (BR 1957, retained post-1977) 2902 - Dining car (BR 1956, ex-M399, retained post-1977) 5154 - Staff car (LNWR 1905) 5155 - Staff couchette (LNWR 1905) 9005 - Queen Elizabeth's (Queen Mother's) saloon (GWR 1945, retained until 1984 but not officially part of the 1977 Royal Train) 9006 - Queen Elizabeth's (Queen Mother's) saloon (GWR 1945, retained until 1984 but not officially part of the 1977 Royal Train) 31209 - Staff sleeper/generator (LMS 1941, retained post-1977 as 2910) 45000 - Special saloon (LNWR 1920, retained post-1977 as 2911) 45005 - Special saloon (LMS 1942) 45006 - Special saloon (LMS 1942, retained post-1977 as 2912) The 1977 Royal Train was consisted of: 2900 - Royal Family lounge 2901 - Royal Household office 2902 - Royal Family dining car 2903 - Queen's saloon (ex-HST prototype TF11001) 2904 - Duke of Edinburgh's saloon (ex-HST prototype TS12001) 2905 - Royal Household sleeping/generator car (ex-Mk 2B BFK 14105) 2906 - Royal Household sleeper (ex-Mk 2B BFK 14112) 2907 - Royal Household dining car 2908 - Royal Household sleeper 2910 - Royal Household sleeper, generator & brake van 2911 - Special Saloon 2912 - Special Saloon 2910-2912 were restricted to 70mph and the others were allowed 100mph. 2909 Royal Household sleeper (ex-Mk 1 SLSTP 2500) was added in 1981. New Royal Household coaches were converted from Mk 3 stock in 1985-86 and the Mk 1 and 2 stock was withdrawn. There were two very detailed articles on the Royal Train in Railway Modeller in 1981, the prototype in the July issue and modelling it in the August issue. Cheers David Some of those vehicle descriptions would seem not to be correct as there appear to be an awful lot allocated to 'Royal Household' whereas in fact the number of such folk on almost every use of the train is very small indeed. I suspect what has happened is that the vehicles used by the various on train staff have somehow been misread at sometime as being 'Household' instead of their correct usage. For example 45000 was used for a number of years as the Train Officer's vehicle, one vehicle was for the Wolverton staff plus the catering and train operating staff also had to be accommodated - none of these being 'Royal Household' in any way shape or form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted May 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2013 I have those two issues of the RM in the 'archive' PM if you would like some research material! Andy G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Some of those vehicle descriptions would seem not to be correct as there appear to be an awful lot allocated to 'Royal Household' whereas in fact the number of such folk on almost every use of the train is very small indeed. I suspect what has happened is that the vehicles used by the various on train staff have somehow been misread at sometime as being 'Household' instead of their correct usage. For example 45000 was used for a number of years as the Train Officer's vehicle, one vehicle was for the Wolverton staff plus the catering and train operating staff also had to be accommodated - none of these being 'Royal Household' in any way shape or form. Those are official names and are used as such in the NRM descriptions. "Household" is a very broad term and includes anybody who provides support to the Royal Family. No doubt some were used by SO14 too. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2013 Those are official names and are used as such in the NRM descriptions. "Household" is a very broad term and includes anybody who provides support to the Royal Family. No doubt some were used by SO14 too. Cheers David It certainly wasn't the official names used by BR! (in those instances where any names at all were used - mostly we referred to them simply by vehicle numbers). And having had lunch in 325 ( a former RF which was part of the fleet and is not listed above) while the train was running as a Royal Train I do happen to know a liitle bit about it - which seems to be a bit more than the NRM does (but presumably unlike me they didn't deal with it as part of their job?). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted May 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2013 Also the Ex LNWR vehicles have got diagrams in Jenkinsons LNWR coaches book... What fine looking vehicles they were too. One day i will make the early LMS set, but I have too many normal coaches to make first! Andy G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted May 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) the mention of 325 in the list above seems to be confused with 2906 as mike said, 325 was a BR mk1 RF (dia. 17) - there's mention of it in parkin's mk1 book in that it ran in lined maroon but was never painted/renumbered into the full train 1979 P5 book states that it (along with the mk1 special build 2900/2901/2902) was converted in 1977 from vac brake/steam heat to air brake/ETH and B5 bogies W14112 ex-2b BFK became 2906 staff sleeper Edited May 20, 2013 by keefer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 These may help. With exception of the sleeper I don't think there has been a correct royal coach made. http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/view.php?cat=Royal%20Train http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Royal_Train#Fleet_from_1977 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/20583-royal-train-roof/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crompton48 Posted May 21, 2013 Author Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) What i wanted to do is a six or seven coach train about 1976/1977 on the Western Region as i was eight at the time i dont remember a lot at the time many thanks ! Edited May 21, 2013 by Crompton48 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 Andy, We should have the RM's in the club library. Kev Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted May 21, 2013 Share Posted May 21, 2013 The July & August 1981 RM articles are very good, I also seem to recall at least one photo from your era and the 1977 stock list in Rail Express no.4, I've just tried looking for it but must have given my copy away. I modelled a more contemporary rake a few years ago (must dig it out and ebay it), although the earlier period would have been more interesting as it allowed quite a mix of coach types. I used Halfords "Ford Dark Aubergine" from a rattlecan and Hurst models transfers, with little scope for weathering you really have to get the finish right so there's little point using the RTR coaches from Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 22, 2013 What i wanted to do is a six or seven coach train about 1976/1977 on the Western Region as i was eight at the time i dont remember a lot at the time many thanks ! A nice option then would be a Prince of Wales train as they were usually around load 5 (unless there was an on-train dinner party in the offing) plus he was rather fond of older vehicles. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted May 22, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 22, 2013 The "full" Royal Train in the 1970s and early 1980s could load to 10 or more coaches. Since the general use of Mk3 stock and HM's own housekeeping budget cuts the number of coaches and the number of occasions the train is used have both diminished. I once saw a full formation Royal rake (probably empty stock) coming around the curve from Stratford towards Temple Mills late one evening with 10 on and including some of the clerestory roof coaches which were withdrawn soon afterwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Just found this which may be useful. http://www.derbysulzers.com/royaltrain.html Edited January 27, 2016 by thebritfarmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Does anyone have any info on the Royal Train that was pulled by the Flying Scotsman in I believe 1984. Haven't had much luck finding what coaches she pulled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Does anyone have any info on the Royal Train that was pulled by the Flying Scotsman in I believe 1984. Haven't had much luck finding what coaches she pulled. It is unlikely to have been the official stock as they were all converted to Airbrake only in 1977. A quick Google brought up 4472 hauling Mk1 Pullman stock, could that have been it...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I think you might be correct! Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Just need to find the formation or a rough guide, looks like a Parlour second and also a Brake Composite. Wonder what else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Patrick Kingston wrote a book in the mid 1980s called "Royal Trains". Most useful source of info and photos. When the Queen went to Weston SM in 1977 she used a shortened HST as I recall. The SR were very fond of producing their own train. Often a TC with a REP catering vehicle slipped in. For the Spithead Review in 1977 The Queen got a 4BEP if my memory serves me right. Pre refurb of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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